Discussion:
boris the clown - when asked by a labour mp to justify cuts to the fire brigade
(too old to reply)
electionshock
2017-06-15 23:15:55 UTC
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told him to "get stuffed"

has there ever been a more failed, discredited government

who are these people
electionshock
2017-06-15 23:27:01 UTC
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theresa may is an idiot
she's got to stay as long as possible
she will guarantee the election of corbyn
Vidcapper
2017-06-16 06:59:07 UTC
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Post by electionshock
theresa may is an idiot
she's got to stay as long as possible
she will guarantee the election of corbyn
Well it didn't happen in the very favourable circumstances for Labour
last week, so why would it happen at any other time?

In any case, I suspect May will try to hold on until after Brexit, then
step down to allow her successor a good run into the next GE.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
abelard
2017-06-17 17:33:40 UTC
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fire brigades are there to stop fires...

they arrived in 6 miutes...

are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
JNugent
2017-06-18 15:33:38 UTC
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Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
See below.
Post by abelard
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
When the PP says "firemen", he probably means as depicted in "Fahrenheit
451".

Their job was burning books and destroying "unacceptable" human
knowledge (or books by members of unacceptable groups, nudge, nudge).
abelard
2017-06-18 17:18:47 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
See below.
Post by abelard
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
When the PP says "firemen", he probably means as depicted in "Fahrenheit
451".
Their job was burning books and destroying "unacceptable" human
knowledge (or books by members of unacceptable groups, nudge, nudge).
unfortunately electric shock is not offering her wisdom to
the masses...
The Todal
2017-06-18 18:14:32 UTC
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Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.

And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.

Boris didn't care about fire service cuts because, miraculously, the
Tory Government had reduced the number of serious fires in the capital,
for ever and ever. He relied on the laws of chance to excuse a reckless
gamble with our lives.
abelard
2017-06-18 18:31:04 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
Post by The Todal
Boris didn't care about fire service cuts because, miraculously, the
Tory Government had reduced the number of serious fires in the capital,
for ever and ever. He relied on the laws of chance to excuse a reckless
gamble with our lives.
*all* planning relies on the laws of chance...your innumeracy makes
a mockery of your posts and your judgements...
RH156RH
2017-06-18 18:46:29 UTC
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Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
The Todal
2017-06-18 18:50:39 UTC
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Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
A caller to LBC this morning suggested that in future the RAF should use
helicopters and other aircraft to bring huge containers of water to the
scene and dump the water over the tower block.

It would probably work very well, if such a thing could be managed
within two hours of the fire starting.
A. Filip
2017-06-18 19:54:41 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in
the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and
then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
A caller to LBC this morning suggested that in future the RAF should
use helicopters and other aircraft to bring huge containers of water
to the scene and dump the water over the tower block.
It would probably work very well, if such a thing could be managed
within two hours of the fire starting.
Most fires burns *inside*. I hope not to see similar fire trap burning again.
Anyway *big* fires create risky environment for helicopters. Urban
fires requiring helicopters use are not frequent enough for pilots to
gain practice [exception: evacuation from roof with lower parts burning]

IMHO Tower cranes with fast self erecting capability may be a better
long term solution.
--
A. Filip
| It's pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness; poverty and wealth
| have both failed. (Kim Hubbard)
MM
2017-06-19 07:32:27 UTC
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Post by A. Filip
IMHO Tower cranes with fast self erecting capability may be a better
long term solution.
Even if such cranes existed, Britain would only fund two or three for
the whole country.

MM

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James Harris
2017-06-19 07:38:46 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by A. Filip
IMHO Tower cranes with fast self erecting capability may be a better
long term solution.
Even if such cranes existed, Britain would only fund two or three for
the whole country.
Repeat 100 times: "I should not despise my country"

If that doesn't work perhaps you should seek help.
--
James Harris
MM
2017-06-20 08:04:16 UTC
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On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:38:46 +0100, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by MM
Post by A. Filip
IMHO Tower cranes with fast self erecting capability may be a better
long term solution.
Even if such cranes existed, Britain would only fund two or three for
the whole country.
Repeat 100 times: "I should not despise my country"
Not "the country" -- the *government* !!

MM

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James Harris
2017-06-20 08:20:13 UTC
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Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:38:46 +0100, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by MM
Post by A. Filip
IMHO Tower cranes with fast self erecting capability may be a better
long term solution.
Even if such cranes existed, Britain would only fund two or three for
the whole country.
Repeat 100 times: "I should not despise my country"
Not "the country" -- the *government* !!
Your dislike of Britain seems to go well beyond just the government.
--
James Harris
MM
2017-06-21 11:39:30 UTC
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On Tue, 20 Jun 2017 09:20:13 +0100, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by MM
On Mon, 19 Jun 2017 08:38:46 +0100, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by MM
Post by A. Filip
IMHO Tower cranes with fast self erecting capability may be a better
long term solution.
Even if such cranes existed, Britain would only fund two or three for
the whole country.
Repeat 100 times: "I should not despise my country"
Not "the country" -- the *government* !!
Your dislike of Britain seems to go well beyond just the government.
Seems to YOU, because you're just seeking a stick to beat me with, so
bereft of arguments that you are.

MM

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A. Filip
2017-06-19 12:36:28 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by A. Filip
IMHO Tower cranes with fast self erecting capability may be a better
long term solution.
Even if such cranes existed, Britain would only fund two or three for
the whole country.
Two or three for initial a few years test period would be sufficient IMHO.
--
A. Filip
| Sorry. My testing organization is either too small, or too large, depending
| on how you look at it. :-)
| -- Larry Wall in <***@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov>
MM
2017-06-20 08:07:19 UTC
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Post by A. Filip
Post by MM
Post by A. Filip
IMHO Tower cranes with fast self erecting capability may be a better
long term solution.
Even if such cranes existed, Britain would only fund two or three for
the whole country.
Two or three for initial a few years test period would be sufficient IMHO.
So if a tower fire occurs in, say, London and the cranes are nowhere
close, what would be the point?

No, fire brigades *everywhere* must have the ability and resources to
reach the top of the tallest building, otherwise such buildings are
inherently unsafe. Even more so if they don't have sprinkler systems
and are covered with highly flammable cladding.

MM

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JNugent
2017-06-20 09:57:39 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by A. Filip
Post by MM
Post by A. Filip
IMHO Tower cranes with fast self erecting capability may be a better
long term solution.
Even if such cranes existed, Britain would only fund two or three for
the whole country.
Two or three for initial a few years test period would be sufficient IMHO.
So if a tower fire occurs in, say, London and the cranes are nowhere
close, what would be the point?
No, fire brigades *everywhere* must have the ability and resources to
reach the top of the tallest building, otherwise such buildings are
inherently unsafe.
Well, they haven't.

So what next?
JNugent
2017-06-19 09:30:49 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in
the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and
then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
A caller to LBC this morning suggested that in future the RAF should use
helicopters and other aircraft to bring huge containers of water to the
scene and dump the water over the tower block.
It would probably work very well, if such a thing could be managed
within two hours of the fire starting.
Does the RAF have such things? The fixed-wing aircraft are very specialised.

The USAAF and Italian air forces have them - from a midway vantage
point, I watched, fascinated, some years ago as they continually scooped
up sea water at Livorno and dumped it on a forest fire near Lucca.
Ophelia
2017-06-19 11:34:15 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in the
block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and then turn
on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
A caller to LBC this morning suggested that in future the RAF should use
helicopters and other aircraft to bring huge containers of water to the
scene and dump the water over the tower block.
It would probably work very well, if such a thing could be managed within
two hours of the fire starting.
Does the RAF have such things? The fixed-wing aircraft are very specialised.

Yes, they do.

The USAAF and Italian air forces have them - from a midway vantage
point, I watched, fascinated, some years ago as they continually scooped
up sea water at Livorno and dumped it on a forest fire near Lucca.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
MM
2017-06-19 07:30:51 UTC
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On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT), RH156RH
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
It was already too late for that. The building went up like a Roman
candle.

But why hasn't the fire brigade been given the resources to take water
right up to the top of the building? They're saying now that they may
deploy drones in future to lift fire hoses up. Is that what we've sunk
to as a nation?

MM

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The Todal
2017-06-19 08:36:52 UTC
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Post by MM
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT), RH156RH
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
It was already too late for that. The building went up like a Roman
candle.
But why hasn't the fire brigade been given the resources to take water
right up to the top of the building? They're saying now that they may
deploy drones in future to lift fire hoses up. Is that what we've sunk
to as a nation?
I think the Fire Brigade would say that escape ladders capable of
reaching the top of Grenfell Tower would require a base so large that it
would not be able to move about within the relatively narrow streets of
London. But I could be wrong.
MM
2017-06-20 08:09:59 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by MM
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT), RH156RH
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
It was already too late for that. The building went up like a Roman
candle.
But why hasn't the fire brigade been given the resources to take water
right up to the top of the building? They're saying now that they may
deploy drones in future to lift fire hoses up. Is that what we've sunk
to as a nation?
I think the Fire Brigade would say that escape ladders capable of
reaching the top of Grenfell Tower would require a base so large that it
would not be able to move about within the relatively narrow streets of
London. But I could be wrong.
If that is the case, then these towers are inherently unsafe.

If the only word of caution is "Make sure you don't have a fire", then
it's a cop-out and the government, both local and national, are
supping with the devil by housing poor people in this way.

MM

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JNugent
2017-06-20 09:56:57 UTC
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Post by MM
Post by The Todal
Post by MM
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT), RH156RH
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
It was already too late for that. The building went up like a Roman
candle.
But why hasn't the fire brigade been given the resources to take water
right up to the top of the building? They're saying now that they may
deploy drones in future to lift fire hoses up. Is that what we've sunk
to as a nation?
I think the Fire Brigade would say that escape ladders capable of
reaching the top of Grenfell Tower would require a base so large that it
would not be able to move about within the relatively narrow streets of
London. But I could be wrong.
If that is the case, then these towers are inherently unsafe.
If the only word of caution is "Make sure you don't have a fire", then
it's a cop-out and the government, both local and national, are
supping with the devil by housing poor people in this way.
It's funny - rich people have no objection to being housed in this way.

Ever been to New York?

Or even to St John's Wood?
The Todal
2017-06-20 10:46:11 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by The Todal
Post by MM
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT), RH156RH
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in
the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins
and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
It was already too late for that. The building went up like a Roman
candle.
But why hasn't the fire brigade been given the resources to take water
right up to the top of the building? They're saying now that they may
deploy drones in future to lift fire hoses up. Is that what we've sunk
to as a nation?
I think the Fire Brigade would say that escape ladders capable of
reaching the top of Grenfell Tower would require a base so large that it
would not be able to move about within the relatively narrow streets of
London. But I could be wrong.
If that is the case, then these towers are inherently unsafe.
If the only word of caution is "Make sure you don't have a fire", then
it's a cop-out and the government, both local and national, are
supping with the devil by housing poor people in this way.
It's funny - rich people have no objection to being housed in this way.
Ever been to New York?
Or even to St John's Wood?
If you provide sprinkler systems and cladding that is made of a
fire-resistant substance, surely there's no problem?

I don't think an exploding fridge would have been a problem at the World
Trade Center twin towers - it required a huge amount of aviation fuel to
cause that tragedy.
JNugent
2017-06-20 10:59:28 UTC
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Post by The Todal
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by The Todal
Post by MM
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT), RH156RH
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those
in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and
basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the
building. RH
It was already too late for that. The building went up like a Roman
candle.
But why hasn't the fire brigade been given the resources to take water
right up to the top of the building? They're saying now that they may
deploy drones in future to lift fire hoses up. Is that what we've sunk
to as a nation?
I think the Fire Brigade would say that escape ladders capable of
reaching the top of Grenfell Tower would require a base so large that it
would not be able to move about within the relatively narrow streets of
London. But I could be wrong.
If that is the case, then these towers are inherently unsafe.
If the only word of caution is "Make sure you don't have a fire", then
it's a cop-out and the government, both local and national, are
supping with the devil by housing poor people in this way.
It's funny - rich people have no objection to being housed in this way.
Ever been to New York?
Or even to St John's Wood?
If you provide sprinkler systems and cladding that is made of a
fire-resistant substance, surely there's no problem?
I don't think an exploding fridge would have been a problem at the World
Trade Center twin towers - it required a huge amount of aviation fuel to
cause that tragedy.
The subject was accommodation above the maximum height which can be
reached by extended ladders and whether it is inherently unsafe to
hoiuse people at greater heights.
The Todal
2017-06-20 12:13:12 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by The Todal
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by The Todal
Post by MM
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT), RH156RH
Post by RH156RH
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 19:14:32 +0100, The Todal
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those
in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and
basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the
building. RH
It was already too late for that. The building went up like a Roman
candle.
But why hasn't the fire brigade been given the resources to take water
right up to the top of the building? They're saying now that they may
deploy drones in future to lift fire hoses up. Is that what we've sunk
to as a nation?
I think the Fire Brigade would say that escape ladders capable of
reaching the top of Grenfell Tower would require a base so large that it
would not be able to move about within the relatively narrow streets of
London. But I could be wrong.
If that is the case, then these towers are inherently unsafe.
If the only word of caution is "Make sure you don't have a fire", then
it's a cop-out and the government, both local and national, are
supping with the devil by housing poor people in this way.
It's funny - rich people have no objection to being housed in this way.
Ever been to New York?
Or even to St John's Wood?
If you provide sprinkler systems and cladding that is made of a
fire-resistant substance, surely there's no problem?
I don't think an exploding fridge would have been a problem at the
World Trade Center twin towers - it required a huge amount of aviation
fuel to cause that tragedy.
The subject was accommodation above the maximum height which can be
reached by extended ladders and whether it is inherently unsafe to
hoiuse people at greater heights.
And obviously it is only "inherently unsafe" insofar as it's less safe
than a bungalow.

Logically, if you're saying that living accommodation at that height
should be banned, you should also question whether office accommodation
at that height should be banned. London has quite a few high tower
blocks. The Gherkin has 41 floors. The Shard has 95 floors. There are
plenty more.

There must be some reason why the wealthy successful people who have
their offices in these buildings aren't worrying about the height of
Fire Brigade ladders.
JNugent
2017-06-20 12:45:21 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by JNugent
Post by The Todal
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
Post by The Todal
Post by MM
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT), RH156RH
Post by RH156RH
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 19:14:32 +0100, The Todal
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those
in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and
basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the
building. RH
It was already too late for that. The building went up like a Roman
candle.
But why hasn't the fire brigade been given the resources to take water
right up to the top of the building? They're saying now that they may
deploy drones in future to lift fire hoses up. Is that what we've sunk
to as a nation?
I think the Fire Brigade would say that escape ladders capable of
reaching the top of Grenfell Tower would require a base so large that it
would not be able to move about within the relatively narrow streets of
London. But I could be wrong.
If that is the case, then these towers are inherently unsafe.
If the only word of caution is "Make sure you don't have a fire", then
it's a cop-out and the government, both local and national, are
supping with the devil by housing poor people in this way.
It's funny - rich people have no objection to being housed in this way.
Ever been to New York?
Or even to St John's Wood?
If you provide sprinkler systems and cladding that is made of a
fire-resistant substance, surely there's no problem?
I don't think an exploding fridge would have been a problem at the
World Trade Center twin towers - it required a huge amount of
aviation fuel to cause that tragedy.
The subject was accommodation above the maximum height which can be
reached by extended ladders and whether it is inherently unsafe to
hoiuse people at greater heights.
And obviously it is only "inherently unsafe" insofar as it's less safe
than a bungalow.
Quite so.
Post by The Todal
Logically, if you're saying that living accommodation at that height
should be banned, you should also question whether office accommodation
at that height should be banned. London has quite a few high tower
blocks. The Gherkin has 41 floors. The Shard has 95 floors. There are
plenty more.
Quite so. That was my point.

"I don't want to live in a 60th floor penthouse in Fifth Avenue", said
no billionaire, ever.
Post by The Todal
There must be some reason why the wealthy successful people who have
their offices in these buildings aren't worrying about the height of
Fire Brigade ladders.
Again, right on the head.

It is those trying to make a class-war "point" who are wrong.
A. Filip
2017-06-20 11:17:52 UTC
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Raw Message
[...]
Post by The Todal
Post by JNugent
Post by MM
If that is the case, then these towers are inherently unsafe.
If the only word of caution is "Make sure you don't have a fire", then
it's a cop-out and the government, both local and national, are
supping with the devil by housing poor people in this way.
It's funny - rich people have no objection to being housed in this way.
Ever been to New York?
Or even to St John's Wood?
If you provide sprinkler systems and cladding that is made of a
fire-resistant substance, surely there's no problem?
I don't think an exploding fridge would have been a problem at the
World Trade Center twin towers - it required a huge amount of aviation
fuel to cause that tragedy.
Do not forget about "safe" gas installation. such extent of cladding
burnout might been caused by gas fire.

Cladding wasn't safe but as I understand properly installed it should
not be so much unsafe.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/17/daughter-tells-agony-surviving-grenfell-tower-blaze-claimed/
Post by The Todal
The elderly man was so terrified of the naked gas pipes in the
stairwells
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40272168
Post by The Todal
Firefighters worked with the gas authority to isolate a ruptured gas
main in the block.
Once it was completed, they were able to extinguish the fire with the
help of a 40-metre aerial appliance.
--
A. Filip
| When childhood dies, its corpses are called adults.
| -- Brian Aldiss
JNugent
2017-06-19 09:31:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by MM
On Sun, 18 Jun 2017 11:46:29 -0700 (PDT), RH156RH
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
It was already too late for that. The building went up like a Roman
candle.
But why hasn't the fire brigade been given the resources to take water
right up to the top of the building? They're saying now that they may
deploy drones in future to lift fire hoses up. Is that what we've sunk
to as a nation?
What do you mean, "sunk to"?

Are you under the impresion that the laws of physics were passed only
last year?
JNugent
2017-06-19 09:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
I too remember that film.
Incubus
2017-06-19 10:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by JNugent
Post by RH156RH
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
and if portugal was in london there would have been a forsest fire
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
yet another thing more firemen would not fix
The fire-brigade should have used a loudhailer to tell all those in
the block to put all the plugs in their baths, sinks and basins and
then turn on the taps at full blast to flood the building. RH
I too remember that film.
If everyone did that, wouldn't the water pressure be too low to result
in anything more than a trickle?
JNugent
2017-06-19 09:27:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
The LFB has a *few* more appliances than that.
Post by The Todal
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
Boris didn't care about fire service cuts because, miraculously, the
Tory Government had reduced the number of serious fires in the capital,
for ever and ever. He relied on the laws of chance to excuse a reckless
gamble with our lives.
A Labour Mayor would have been able to completely defeat the laws of
gravity and physics?

SO why didn't it happen?
Incubus
2017-06-19 10:32:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting resources
to cover both.
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached only
about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors while
the others burned.
Surely those water cannons he ordered could have reached.
JNugent
2017-06-19 10:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
fire brigades are there to stop fires...
they arrived in 6 miutes...
are you claiming they'd have arrived earlier if there were
more of them?
If there had been another major fire in London on the same night, it
would not have been possible to provide adequate fire-fighting
resources to cover both.
And everyone has noticed that at Grenfell Tower the ladder reached
only about a third of the way up, hopelessly watering the lower floors
while the others burned.
Surely those water cannons he ordered could have reached.
Yes... why didn't the current Mayor order those to be deployed?
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