Discussion:
Good article by Rashid Khalidi
Add Reply
finally ditched mimo
2017-12-07 10:08:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.

Jerusalem is the most important of the so-called final status issues that
have been repeatedly deferred during the Israel-Palestine negotiations
because of their extreme sensitivity. Trump has ploughed into this imbroglio
like a bull in a china shop, zeroing in on the most complex and emotional
issue of all those connected to Palestine.

Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/20/why-jerusalem-
important-google-autocomplete)is undoubtedly the most important aspect of the
entire Palestine question. It has been central to the identity of Palestinian
Muslims and Christians as far back as the founding moments of both religions,
and has become even more so as the conflict over Palestine has become
fiercer.

The rivalry over this holy city is exacerbated by the fact that the same site
– the Haram al-Sharif to Muslims, the Temple Mount to Jews – is sacred to
both. Because of its explosive nature, this is an issue that no Palestinian
politician, and few Arab leaders, would dare to trifle with.

For someone such as me, whose family has lived in Jerusalem for hundreds of
years, Trump’s announcement does not just mean that the US has adopted the
Israeli position that Jerusalem belongs exclusively to Israel. He has also
retroactively legitimised Israel’s seizure and military occupation of Arab
East Jerusalem during the 1967 war, and its imposition of discriminatory laws
on hundreds of thousands of Palestinians living there. The damage he has done
will be permanent: the US cannot undo this recognition.

This act completely disqualifies the US from its longstanding role as broker,
a position that Washington has monopolised for itself. So much for the
pitiful “peace plan” that Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner was cooking
up and hoping to impose on the Palestinians.

Trump’s action signals disdain for the opinion of the whole Arab world.
Whatever Arab dictators and absolute monarchs may tell the Americans they
depend on, the Arab peoples are unanimous in supporting the Palestinian
position on Jerusalem. Their inevitable reactions to this move will impinge
on vital US interests all over the region. As secretary of defense James
Mattis noted in 2013: “I paid a military security price every day as a
commander of [Central Command] because the Americans were seen as biased in
support of Israel.”

This latest diplomatic fiasco is another instance of the administration
showing utter contempt for the views of the rest of the world. Not one
country recognises Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. There is a global
consensus that until a settlement is achieved, it is illegitimate to prejudge
or predetermine the outcome of negotiations. The US formally assured the
Palestinians on this score in inviting them to the 1991 Madridpeace
conference (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_Conference_of_1991).

Of course, there is a lengthy American track record of bias in favour of
Israel. No one should have expected fairness on this issue from them or from
their boss.

It is now hard to see how a sustainable Palestinian-Israeli agreement is
possible. True to Trump form, this is an entirely self-inflicted wound that
will long echo in the annals of diplomacy. It will further diminish the
already reduced standing of the US, complicating relations with allies, with
Muslims and Arabs – and with people of common sense the world over.

Trump, who was warned against this step by Arab, Middle Eastern and European
leaders, has now made resolving the conflict over Palestine much harder, even
as he has brought joy to his friends, and to their dangerous, extremist
soulmates in Israel. Far from ushering in the “deal of the century”, as
he boasted, with this foolish move Trump may usher in the debacle of the
century. This is a sad day for international law, for Palestine, and for
everyone who cares about peace in the Middle East.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/06/trump-jerusalem-
disaster-arab-world-israel
m***@btopenworld.com
2017-12-07 10:44:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of the UK.

The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is the Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence, Diplomats have to traipse there from Tel Aviv to make representations to the Israeli government.

Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really accepting and acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of Jerusalem and shows no inclination towards giving it up.

The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own intransigence over the Palestine question. Intransigence with little to be intransigent with. Annihilation of the Jewish people is a threat and not a policy.

The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at large has grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will swallow up the West Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
Dan S. MacAbre
2017-12-07 10:51:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of the UK.
The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is the Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence, Diplomats have to traipse there from Tel Aviv to make representations to the Israeli government.
Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really accepting and acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of Jerusalem and shows no inclination towards giving it up.
The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own intransigence over the Palestine question. Intransigence with little to be intransigent with. Annihilation of the Jewish people is a threat and not a policy.
The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at large has grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will swallow up the West Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
Has there been another country that wasn't allowed to choose its capital
city? And that's a genuine question - I'm not trying to be 'rhetorical' :-)
finally ditched mimo
2017-12-07 11:40:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of the UK.
The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is the
Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence, Diplomats have
to traipse there from Tel Aviv to make representations to the Israeli
government.
Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really accepting
and acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of Jerusalem and shows no
inclination towards giving it up.
The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own intransigence
over the Palestine question. Intransigence with little to be intransigent
with. Annihilation of the Jewish people is a threat and not a policy.
The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at large has
grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will swallow up the West
Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
Has there been another country that wasn't allowed to choose its capital
city? And that's a genuine question - I'm not trying to be 'rhetorical' :-)
It did choose its capital city, but then chose to annexe most of another city
and now claims that as its capital.

How many countries are allowed to do that, in contravention of multiple UN
resolutions?
Dan S. MacAbre
2017-12-07 11:47:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of the UK.
The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is the
Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence, Diplomats have
to traipse there from Tel Aviv to make representations to the Israeli
government.
Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really accepting
and acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of Jerusalem and shows no
inclination towards giving it up.
The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own intransigence
over the Palestine question. Intransigence with little to be intransigent
with. Annihilation of the Jewish people is a threat and not a policy.
The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at large has
grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will swallow up the West
Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
Has there been another country that wasn't allowed to choose its capital
city? And that's a genuine question - I'm not trying to be 'rhetorical' :-)
It did choose its capital city, but then chose to annexe most of another city
and now claims that as its capital.
How many countries are allowed to do that, in contravention of multiple UN
resolutions?
Allowed to annexe territory? It seems to happen fairly regularly.
Allowed to claim it as a capital? Well, I don't know of anyone who has
actually wanted to do that yet.
finally ditched mimo
2017-12-07 13:07:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again.
Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of
the UK.
The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is the
Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence, Diplomats have
to traipse there from Tel Aviv to make representations to the Israeli
government.
Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really accepting
and acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of Jerusalem and shows no
inclination towards giving it up.
The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own intransigence
over the Palestine question. Intransigence with little to be intransigent
with. Annihilation of the Jewish people is a threat and not a policy.
The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at large has
grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will swallow up the West
Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
Has there been another country that wasn't allowed to choose its capital
city? And that's a genuine question - I'm not trying to be 'rhetorical' :-)
It did choose its capital city, but then chose to annexe most of another city
and now claims that as its capital.
How many countries are allowed to do that, in contravention of multiple UN
resolutions?
Allowed to annexe territory?
No. That is not what I said.
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
It seems to happen fairly regularly.
Not with large cities it does not.
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Allowed to claim it as a capital? Well, I don't know of anyone who has
actually wanted to do that yet.
Apart from Israel. You have a very short memory.
Dan S. MacAbre
2017-12-07 13:28:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of the UK.
The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is the
Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence, Diplomats have
to traipse there from Tel Aviv to make representations to the Israeli
government.
Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really accepting
and acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of Jerusalem and shows no
inclination towards giving it up.
The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own intransigence
over the Palestine question. Intransigence with little to be intransigent
with. Annihilation of the Jewish people is a threat and not a policy.
The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at large has
grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will swallow up the West
Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
Has there been another country that wasn't allowed to choose its capital
city? And that's a genuine question - I'm not trying to be 'rhetorical' :-)
It did choose its capital city, but then chose to annexe most of another city
and now claims that as its capital.
How many countries are allowed to do that, in contravention of multiple UN
resolutions?
Allowed to annexe territory?
No. That is not what I said.
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
It seems to happen fairly regularly.
Not with large cities it does not.
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Allowed to claim it as a capital? Well, I don't know of anyone who has
actually wanted to do that yet.
Apart from Israel. You have a very short memory.
Okay, well I'm sensing that you have some strong feelings on this
matter. Thanks for your response to my question.

finally ditched mimo
2017-12-07 11:01:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of the UK.
No, because London has been the capital of the UK for centuries.

Remind me again, how long has Jerusalem been the capital of Israel?
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is the
Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence, Diplomats have
to traipse there from Tel Aviv to make representations to the Israeli
government.
So what? They could move them to Tel Aviv if they wanted to.

DUP members have to “traipse” to London in order to vote in
parliament.I’m sure the precious diplomats can cope with a bit of
travelling, or are they all snowflakes too?

Theresa May seems not to be on your wavelength. She disagrees with the
decision, calling it "unhelpful in terms of prospects for peace in the
region.”

Which must be the understatement of the year.

The British Embassy will remain in Tel Aviv, so more “traipsing” still to
be done.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really accepting and
acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of Jerusalem and shows no
inclination towards giving it up.
The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own intransigence over
the Palestine question.
Well, that’s alright then. I have you down as one of those who jumps across
to whichever side thinks they can avoid blame for anything.

Remember, the children’s TV programme ‘Runaround’?
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Intransigence with little to be intransigent with.
Annihilation of the Jewish people is a threat and not a policy.
So is annihilation of Muslim people.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at large
I see, so now you are speaking for the whole world?
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
has
grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will swallow up the West
Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
Hopefully, to Yorkshire.
Farmer Giles
2017-12-07 11:29:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of the UK.
The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is the Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence, Diplomats have to traipse there from Tel Aviv to make representations to the Israeli government.
They don't have to. The whole lot could be located in Tel Aviv - where
it should be.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really accepting and acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of Jerusalem and shows no inclination towards giving it up.
The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own intransigence over the Palestine question. Intransigence with little to be intransigent with. Annihilation of the Jewish people is a threat and not a policy.
The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at large has grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will swallow up the West Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
You've got that back to front. The world is getting tired of Israel
ignoring UN resolutions - particularly those condemning Israel's
measures to annex East Jerusalem. Consequently, to move the US embassy
to Jerusalem would be a violation of the UN Charter - and hence the US
Constitution.
finally ditched mimo
2017-12-07 11:35:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of the UK.
The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is the
Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence, Diplomats have
to traipse there from Tel Aviv to make representations to the Israeli
government.
They don't have to. The whole lot could be located in Tel Aviv - where
it should be.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really accepting
and acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of Jerusalem and shows no
inclination towards giving it up.
The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own intransigence
over the Palestine question. Intransigence with little to be intransigent
with. Annihilation of the Jewish people is a threat and not a policy.
The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at large has
grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will swallow up the West
Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
You've got that back to front. The world is getting tired of Israel
ignoring UN resolutions - particularly those condemning Israel's
measures to annex East Jerusalem. Consequently, to move the US embassy
to Jerusalem would be a violation of the UN Charter - and hence the US
Constitution.
And hence the emergency meeting of the UN Security Council for tomorrow, to
issue yet another resolution which Israel will ignore in its never ending
attempt to be portrayed as the innocent victim.
Incubus
2017-12-07 11:36:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of the UK.
The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is
the Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence,
Diplomats have to traipse there from Tel Aviv  to make representations
to the Israeli government.
They don't have to. The whole lot could be located in Tel Aviv - where
it should be.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really
accepting and acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of
Jerusalem and shows no inclination towards giving it up.
The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own
intransigence over the Palestine question. Intransigence with little
to be intransigent with. Annihilation of the Jewish people is a threat
and not a policy.
The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at large
has grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will swallow up
the West Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
You've got that back to front. The world is getting tired of Israel
ignoring UN resolutions - particularly those condemning Israel's
measures to annex East Jerusalem. Consequently, to move the US embassy
to Jerusalem would be a violation of the UN Charter - and hence the US
Constitution.
Why would violating the UN Charter mean violating the US constitution?

I fear for Yitzhak's well-being at present. Imagine coping with the
cognitive dissonance of having Trump in power - someone he condemned as
a despicable, racist piece of detritus - come out so much in favour of
Zionism?
Farmer Giles
2017-12-07 12:29:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Incubus
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by finally ditched mimo
Every time it seems Donald Trump cannot outdo himself, he does it again. Now
he has announced that his administration will recognise Jerusalem
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/06/trump-recognise-jerusalem-
israel-capital-move-us-embassy-white-house)as Israel’s capital, reversing
nearly seven decades of American policy. This step will have multiple
negative ramifications, many impossible to predict.
Yup and it's about as obvious as London being recognised as the capital of the UK.
The Israelis control Jerusalem. The Knesset is located there. So is
the Israeli Supreme Court, The Prime Misters Official Residence,
Diplomats have to traipse there from Tel Aviv  to make
representations to the Israeli government.
They don't have to. The whole lot could be located in Tel Aviv - where
it should be.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Ipso Facto Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Trump is really
accepting and acknowledging reality. Israel has possession of
Jerusalem and shows no inclination towards giving it up.
The Arabs have nobody but themselves to blame or their own
intransigence over the Palestine question. Intransigence with little
to be intransigent with. Annihilation of the Jewish people is a
threat and not a policy.
The inevitable has happened. After all these years, the world at
large has grown tired of listening to them. Eventually they will
swallow up the West Bank. Where will the 'Palestinians' go then?
You've got that back to front. The world is getting tired of Israel
ignoring UN resolutions - particularly those condemning Israel's
measures to annex East Jerusalem. Consequently, to move the US embassy
to Jerusalem would be a violation of the UN Charter - and hence the US
Constitution.
Why would violating the UN Charter mean violating the US constitution?
I took that from the opinion of an American legal expert - "what the
media consistently fail to inform news consumers is that for the US to
move its Israel embassy to Jerusalem would violate the UN Charter—and
hence also the US Constitution."

In looking to substantiate the claim, I can't find any link myself.
But perhaps it relates to taking an action that would be in violation of
international law.
Loading...