Discussion:
Could the Tories lose another MP?
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Vidcapper
2017-06-19 09:41:03 UTC
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Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.

He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017 iro
election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent then was
Nigel Farage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)

He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
JNugent
2017-06-19 10:30:47 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017 iro
election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent then was
Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.

But why, in any case, would a by-election be necessary? The charges do
not relate to the GE 2017.
Vidcapper
2017-06-19 10:36:22 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
But why, in any case, would a by-election be necessary? The charges do
not relate to the GE 2017.
If he were jailed, then it would not matter which election the charges
related to. The very fact of his imprisonment would make his position as
an MP untenable.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
JNugent
2017-06-19 14:03:31 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
But why, in any case, would a by-election be necessary? The charges do
not relate to the GE 2017.
If he were jailed, then it would not matter which election the charges
related to. The very fact of his imprisonment would make his position as
an MP untenable.
Please explain your understanding of the relevant legal provisions.
Vidcapper
2017-06-19 15:38:49 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
But why, in any case, would a by-election be necessary? The charges do
not relate to the GE 2017.
If he were jailed, then it would not matter which election the charges
related to. The very fact of his imprisonment would make his position
as an MP untenable.
Please explain your understanding of the relevant legal provisions.
AIUI a convicted criminal cannot remain an MP?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
abelard
2017-06-19 15:46:48 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
But why, in any case, would a by-election be necessary? The charges do
not relate to the GE 2017.
If he were jailed, then it would not matter which election the charges
related to. The very fact of his imprisonment would make his position
as an MP untenable.
Please explain your understanding of the relevant legal provisions.
AIUI a convicted criminal cannot remain an MP?
in some law democracy overwhelms laws(not the punishment though)

i can't remember details and i'm not going to search and strive
JNugent
2017-06-19 16:49:35 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
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Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
But why, in any case, would a by-election be necessary? The charges do
not relate to the GE 2017.
If he were jailed, then it would not matter which election the charges
related to. The very fact of his imprisonment would make his position
as an MP untenable.
Please explain your understanding of the relevant legal provisions.
AIUI a convicted criminal cannot remain an MP?
That is not so.
Vidcapper
2017-06-20 06:26:20 UTC
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Post by JNugent
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Post by JNugent
Please explain your understanding of the relevant legal provisions.
AIUI a convicted criminal cannot remain an MP?
That is not so.
But just imagine what a gift it would be to Corbyn if the Tories didn't
expel him from the party (assuming he was convicted, of curse).
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
JNugent
2017-06-20 08:09:07 UTC
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Post by JNugent
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Post by JNugent
Please explain your understanding of the relevant legal provisions.
AIUI a convicted criminal cannot remain an MP?
That is not so.
But just imagine what a gift it would be to Corbyn if the Tories didn't
expel him from the party (assuming he was convicted, of curse).
Are you under the impression that no Labour MP has ever been convicted
of an offence?
Vidcapper
2017-06-20 13:09:10 UTC
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Post by JNugent
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Post by JNugent
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Post by JNugent
Please explain your understanding of the relevant legal provisions.
AIUI a convicted criminal cannot remain an MP?
That is not so.
But just imagine what a gift it would be to Corbyn if the Tories
didn't expel him from the party (assuming he was convicted, of curse).
Are you under the impression that no Labour MP has ever been convicted
of an offence?
I never said that - but how many current ones have been convicted while
a member of HoC?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Incubus
2017-06-20 08:13:54 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
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Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
But why, in any case, would a by-election be necessary? The charges do
not relate to the GE 2017.
If he were jailed, then it would not matter which election the charges
related to. The very fact of his imprisonment would make his position
as an MP untenable.
Please explain your understanding of the relevant legal provisions.
AIUI a convicted criminal cannot remain an MP?
That is not so.
Unless they're in custody!
James Hammerton
2017-06-19 17:49:30 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?

Regards,

James
--
James Hammerton
http://jhammerton.wordpress.com
http://www.magnacartaplus.com/
JNugent
2017-06-19 19:07:10 UTC
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Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
James Hammerton
2017-06-19 21:54:49 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?

Regards,

James
--
James Hammerton
http://jhammerton.wordpress.com
http://www.magnacartaplus.com/
JNugent
2017-06-20 01:28:19 UTC
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Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Vidcapper
2017-06-20 06:23:36 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July
2017 iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main
opponent then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Isn't that for the magistrate (or jury) to decide?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
JNugent
2017-06-20 08:07:38 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July
2017 iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main
opponent then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Isn't that for the magistrate (or jury) to decide?
And?
Vidcapper
2017-06-20 13:11:35 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July
2017 iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main
opponent then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Isn't that for the magistrate (or jury) to decide?
And?
And if they found him guilty, then in the eyes of the law he will have
done something wrong.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
JNugent
2017-06-20 14:04:56 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
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Post by JNugent
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Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July
2017 iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main
opponent then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Isn't that for the magistrate (or jury) to decide?
And?
And if they found him guilty, then in the eyes of the law he will have
done something wrong.
"If"...
Judith
2017-06-20 14:47:25 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
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Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July
2017 iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main
opponent then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Isn't that for the magistrate (or jury) to decide?
And?
And if they found him guilty, then in the eyes of the law he will have
done something wrong.
"If"...
Share with us how you *know* he won't be found guilty?
Vidcapper
2017-06-20 15:15:46 UTC
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Post by JNugent
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Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
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Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July
2017 iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main
opponent then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Isn't that for the magistrate (or jury) to decide?
And?
And if they found him guilty, then in the eyes of the law he will have
done something wrong.
"If"...
I *said* 'if'!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
BurfordTJustice
2017-06-20 15:32:52 UTC
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Dance little man dance!
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Post by JNugent
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Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July
2017 iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main
opponent then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Isn't that for the magistrate (or jury) to decide?
And?
And if they found him guilty, then in the eyes of the law he will have
done something wrong.
"If"...
I *said* 'if'!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
JNugent
2017-06-20 15:41:56 UTC
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Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July
2017 iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main
opponent then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Isn't that for the magistrate (or jury) to decide?
And?
And if they found him guilty, then in the eyes of the law he will have
done something wrong.
"If"...
I *said* 'if'!
I know you did. I was reminding you of what your premise is based upon.
Vidcapper
2017-06-21 06:11:31 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
I *said* 'if'!
I know you did. I was reminding you of what your premise is based upon.
Evidence presented to the CPS, you mean?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Judith
2017-06-20 14:46:28 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Could you share with us how you know this? Have you told the CPS?
You should do - they will perhaps drop the case.
James Hammerton
2017-06-20 18:59:24 UTC
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Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July
2017 iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main
opponent then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
He hasn't done anything wrong.
Being innocent does not necessarily prevent you from convicted.

Why are you so certain he won't be convicted? Do you say the CPS has no
case?

Regards,

James
--
James Hammerton
http://jhammerton.wordpress.com
http://www.magnacartaplus.com/
m***@btopenworld.com
2017-06-20 07:53:50 UTC
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Post by James Hammerton
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Post by James Hammerton
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Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
That they may but it makes no difference.

All MPs of the 2015 Parliament and any successors lost their seats when that Parliament was dissolved in 2017. From that point on any registered voter could stand for election to the 2017 Parliament subject to a few qualification like not being an undischarged bankrupt. Not serving a prison sentence of above 3 months duration, not recognised of being of unsound mind, being able to secure the necessary nominations and so on.

Nobody can be prevented from standing for Parliament for any other reason. All elections of the 2015 Parliament were null and void after dissolution and that was the end of them.

Mr Mackinlay was successfully nominated for his seat in the 2017 election in fact under a situation where his constituents were fully aware of allegations against him. Any circumstance appertaining to the 2015 election does not affect the 2017 election which is an entirely separate matter in any way and so he was duly elected no matter what the decision regarding the other matter. Only a misdemeanour appertaining to that election could affect his canditure in any way.

It's quite simple really.
James Hammerton
2017-06-20 18:58:04 UTC
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Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
That may be so, but the CPS seem to think they can charge him with a
crime based on the evidence they received, have you studied their case
and decided it is flimsy?
That they may but it makes no difference. >
All MPs of the 2015 Parliament and any successors lost their seats when that Parliament was dissolved in 2017. From that point on any registered voter could stand for election to the 2017 Parliament subject to a few qualification like not being an undischarged bankrupt. Not serving a prison sentence of above 3 months duration, not recognised of being of unsound mind, being able to secure the necessary nominations and so on.
Nobody can be prevented from standing for Parliament for any other reason. All elections of the 2015 Parliament were null and void after dissolution and that was the end of them.
Mr Mackinlay was successfully nominated for his seat in the 2017 election in fact under a situation where his constituents were fully aware of allegations against him. Any circumstance appertaining to the 2015 election does not affect the 2017 election which is an entirely separate matter in any way and so he was duly elected no matter what the decision regarding the other matter. Only a misdemeanour appertaining to that election could affect his canditure in any way.
It's quite simple really.
I accept all that, but I'm not sure what it's got to do with the
likelihood of conviction or the strength of the case against Mr
Mackinlay i.e. the matter I was asking about.

Regards,

James
--
James Hammerton
http://jhammerton.wordpress.com
http://www.magnacartaplus.com/
Vidcapper
2017-06-20 06:22:23 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
Then why is he being prosecuted?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
JNugent
2017-06-20 08:08:23 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
Then why is he being prosecuted?
The CPS feeling political pressure to "do" something, even though
there's nothing to "do".
James Hammerton
2017-06-20 18:52:32 UTC
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Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
Then why is he being prosecuted?
The CPS feeling political pressure to "do" something, even though
there's nothing to "do".
So you're saying there is no case to answer but they're pursuing it anyway?

Regards,

James
--
James Hammerton
http://jhammerton.wordpress.com
http://www.magnacartaplus.com/
m***@btopenworld.com
2017-06-20 08:31:39 UTC
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Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
Then why is he being prosecuted?
Because there is a question that the law may have been broken. If this proves to be the case then there is a question of retribution. This would take the form of a fine against the parties involved.

It would not take the form of interference in the outcome of a completely separate election. For obvious reasons, Justices are loath to interfere in election results. Separation of powers and all that.
Farmer Giles
2017-06-20 09:11:19 UTC
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Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
Then why is he being prosecuted?
Because there is a question that the law may have been broken.
AIUI, that's not the way it works. That question would trigger a police
investigation, no more. The question of 'prosecution' then becomes a
matter for the CPS, and they decide to proceed based on the likelihood
of a conviction.
m***@btopenworld.com
2017-06-20 11:50:32 UTC
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Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
Then why is he being prosecuted?
Because there is a question that the law may have been broken.
AIUI, that's not the way it works. That question would trigger a police
investigation, no more. The question of 'prosecution' then becomes a
matter for the CPS, and they decide to proceed based on the likelihood
of a conviction.
That is so but there can be no certainty of conviction or otherwise and there is also a question of public interest. It could be that events have overtaken proceedings. There is no way that an election result declared in 2017 can be set aside as a consequence of offences allegedly committed in 2015.

It could therefore come about that the court could convict but have no appropriate punishment to hand. Setting aside a result declared in 2015 is hardly likely to have much relevance to a result declared in 2017.

I think you will find the matter is left 'on file'
Farmer Giles
2017-06-20 15:05:12 UTC
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Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
Then why is he being prosecuted?
Because there is a question that the law may have been broken.
AIUI, that's not the way it works. That question would trigger a police
investigation, no more. The question of 'prosecution' then becomes a
matter for the CPS, and they decide to proceed based on the likelihood
of a conviction.
That is so but there can be no certainty of conviction or otherwise and there is also a question of public interest. It could be that events have overtaken proceedings. There is no way that an election result declared in 2017 can be set aside as a consequence of offences allegedly committed in 2015.
It could therefore come about that the court could convict but have no appropriate punishment to hand. Setting aside a result declared in 2015 is hardly likely to have much relevance to a result declared in 2017.
I think you will find the matter is left 'on file'
That's as maybe, but the question was why is he being prosecuted - to
which you replied 'because there is a question that the law may have
been broken'. The CPS makes the final decision on this, and proceeds if
there is a 'good' chance of conviction - the question of it being a
certainty does not arise.
abelard
2017-06-20 11:53:14 UTC
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Post by Farmer Giles
AIUI, that's not the way it works. That question would trigger a police
investigation, no more. The question of 'prosecution' then becomes a
matter for the CPS, and they decide to proceed based on the likelihood
of a conviction.
you have far more confidence in the detachment and objectivity
of the cps than is prudent
Farmer Giles
2017-06-20 15:34:09 UTC
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Post by abelard
Post by Farmer Giles
AIUI, that's not the way it works. That question would trigger a police
investigation, no more. The question of 'prosecution' then becomes a
matter for the CPS, and they decide to proceed based on the likelihood
of a conviction.
you have far more confidence in the detachment and objectivity
of the cps than is prudent
I have very little confidence in them at all. It is simply a matter that
usually they decide whether or not to 'prosecute', not the police.
abelard
2017-06-20 17:11:44 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by abelard
Post by Farmer Giles
AIUI, that's not the way it works. That question would trigger a police
investigation, no more. The question of 'prosecution' then becomes a
matter for the CPS, and they decide to proceed based on the likelihood
of a conviction.
you have far more confidence in the detachment and objectivity
of the cps than is prudent
I have very little confidence in them at all. It is simply a matter that
usually they decide whether or not to 'prosecute', not the police.
that is a more encouraging response
James Hammerton
2017-06-20 18:54:04 UTC
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Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Vidcapper
Post by JNugent
Post by James Hammerton
Post by JNugent
Post by Vidcapper
Re : Craig Mackinlay, the recently re-elected MP for South Thanet.
He's due to appear at Westminster Magistrates' Court on 4 July 2017
iro election expense issues in the 2015 election. His main opponent
then was Nigel Farage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thanet_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
He has a 6,387 majority, but that could easily evaporate if he was
convicted & a by-election forced.
He won't be convicted.
Why are you so certain of this?
He hasn't dome anything wrong.
Then why is he being prosecuted?
Because there is a question that the law may have been broken. If this proves to be the case then there is a question of retribution. This would take the form of a fine against the parties involved.
So you accept he might be convicted then.

Regards,

James
--
James Hammerton
http://jhammerton.wordpress.com
http://www.magnacartaplus.com/
m***@btopenworld.com
2017-06-21 08:01:03 UTC
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Post by James Hammerton
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Because there is a question that the law may have been broken. If this proves to be the case then there is a question of retribution. This would take the form of a fine against the parties involved.
So you accept he might be convicted then.
Convicted of what?

Convicted of a corrupt practice? The only danger to his liberty (and his seat). The charge would have to get past a jury for that to happen.

Not a chance! There were too many other battle buses around for that

The most likely outcome is a fine for candidate, agent or party or a combination of the three. The incident will then be quietly forgotten.

There was no corruption involved. When we speak of corruption we are talking of bribes and financial inducements to voters, poll officials or impersonation.

These things just did not happen.

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