Discussion:
Israeli Land Grab
(too old to reply)
Judith
2014-08-31 22:33:34 UTC
Permalink
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0


I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".

I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
Blue
2014-08-31 22:58:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
Doubt Cameron will be spear heading anything here.
Roger Dewhurst
2014-09-01 05:22:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Blue
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
Doubt Cameron will be spear heading anything here.
Cameron's spear, if you can call it that, points straight to the ground.
Ophelia
2014-09-03 20:25:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Dewhurst
Post by Blue
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
Doubt Cameron will be spear heading anything here.
Cameron's spear, if you can call it that, points straight to the ground.
I never realised he has one.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/
Let It Be
2014-09-01 00:16:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the
fuck do they think they are doing".
If you are "absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me" why are you posting
here?

It's also interesting to note that while you have been rather vociferous in
condemning Israel for its actions in Gaza - you have remained absolutely
silent about the thousands of murders, kidnaps and rapes taking place in
Iraq - along with the beaheading of an American news reporter - by the
terrorists of the Islamic States, who are hell-bent on forming a hard-line
Islamic Middle East Caliphate where no other religious belief or atheism
will be tolerated.

The oxymoron 'a thundering silence' on your part about this far greater
conflict and killing comes to mind - *WHY* *ARE* *YOU* *SO* *SILENT* *ABOUT*
*IT* *THEN*?
Peter Percival
2014-09-02 07:56:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Let It Be
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the
fuck do they think they are doing".
If you are "absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me" why are you posting
here?
It's also interesting to note that while you have been rather vociferous in
condemning Israel for its actions in Gaza - you have remained absolutely
silent about the thousands of murders, kidnaps and rapes taking place in
Iraq
Perhaps Judith is more interested in Israel than Iraq. May she not
direct her interests where she wishes?
Post by Let It Be
- along with the beaheading of an American news reporter - by the
terrorists of the Islamic States, who are hell-bent on forming a hard-line
Islamic Middle East Caliphate where no other religious belief or atheism
will be tolerated.
The oxymoron 'a thundering silence' on your part about this far greater
conflict and killing comes to mind - *WHY* *ARE* *YOU* *SO* *SILENT* *ABOUT*
*IT* *THEN*?
--
[Dancing is] a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire.
G.B. Shaw quoted in /New Statesman/, 23 March 1962
Let It Be
2014-09-02 23:38:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Percival
Post by Let It Be
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the
fuck do they think they are doing".
If you are "absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me" why are you
posting here?
It's also interesting to note that while you have been rather
vociferous in condemning Israel for its actions in Gaza - you have
remained absolutely silent about the thousands of murders, kidnaps
and rapes taking place in Iraq
Perhaps Judith is more interested in Israel than Iraq. May she not
direct her interests where she wishes?
Certainly she may, but at least she should be unblinkered as to why those
atrocities are being carried out in the Middle East by all parties and not
polarised to a small area - but that is asking for the impossible with
her/him.


<Snipped>
Bill
2014-09-01 00:30:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
No justification is necessary.

The land is state owned.

The Palestinians have no good title to it.

If they did have they'd be in court by now screaming blue murder and,
probably, winning.

End of story
Roger Dewhurst
2014-09-01 05:21:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
No justification is necessary.
The land is state owned.
The Palestinians have no good title to it.
If they did have they'd be in court by now screaming blue murder and,
probably, winning.
End of story
Lose a war and you can expect to lose some land. Tough titty. Fuck off to the IS.
Judith
2014-09-01 21:32:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 22:21:44 -0700 (PDT), Roger Dewhurst
Post by Roger Dewhurst
Post by Bill
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
No justification is necessary.
The land is state owned.
The Palestinians have no good title to it.
If they did have they'd be in court by now screaming blue murder and,
probably, winning.
End of story
Lose a war and you can expect to lose some land. Tough titty. Fuck off to the IS.
How mature you are.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-01 07:01:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck
do they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
No justification is necessary.
The land is state owned.
The Palestinians have no good title to it.
If they did have they'd be in court by now screaming blue murder and,
probably, winning.
End of story
/| /| | |
||__|| | Please don't |
/ O O\__ feed |
/ \ the trolls |
/ \ \ |
/ _ \ \ ----------------------
/ |\____\ \ ||
/ | | | |\____/ ||
/ \|_|_|/ | __||
/ / \ |____| ||
/ | | /| | --|
| | |// |____ --|
* _ | |_|_|_| | \-/
*-- _--\ _ \ // |
/ _ \\ _ // | /
* / \_ /- | - | |
* ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'Sometimes I get the feeling the whole world is against me, but deep
down, I know that's not true. Some smaller countries are neutral'
(Robert Orben (1927 - ))
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Mel Rowing
2014-09-01 08:26:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
"Interested parties have 45 days in which to register objections."

A legal process is in place where questions regarding any title or
compensation etc. may be considered.

Governments do this sort of thing all over the world all of the time.

Jerusalem is an occupied city. The Israeli government is also the legal
government of Jerusalem and indeed the West Bank. This government has
already announce that any future negotiations over the future of the
West Bank will not include Jerusalem which has a special place in Jewish
culture and history.
Steve Walker
2014-09-01 08:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
"Interested parties have 45 days in which to register objections."
A legal process is in place where questions regarding any title or
compensation etc. may be considered.
Governments do this sort of thing all over the world all of the time.
Just like when Nazi Germany seized all the property, land and businesses
from the Jews, really. If the Jew wished to dispute the confiscation, then
they could apply to a Nazi Court to raise their objections.

Definitely not systematic genocidal persecution, just the ordinary business
of government...
The Todal
2014-09-01 08:52:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Mel Rowing
"Interested parties have 45 days in which to register objections."
A legal process is in place where questions regarding any title or
compensation etc. may be considered.
Governments do this sort of thing all over the world all of the time.
Just like when Nazi Germany seized all the property, land and businesses
from the Jews, really. If the Jew wished to dispute the confiscation,
then they could apply to a Nazi Court to raise their objections.
Definitely not systematic genocidal persecution, just the ordinary
business of government...
If Israel is enthusiastic about building new towns, perhaps it should
divert its energies to Gaza:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.613194

An international organization involved in assessing post-conflict
reconstruction says it will take 20 years for Gaza's battered and
neglected housing stock to be rebuilt following the war between Hamas
and Israel.

The assessment by Shelter Cluster, co-chaired by the UN refugee agency
and the Red Cross, underscores the complexities involved in an overall
reconstruction program for the Gaza Strip, which some Palestinian
officials have estimated could cost in excess of $6 billion.

Any effort to rebuild Gaza will be hindered by a blockade imposed by
Egypt and Israel since the Islamic militant group Hamas seized power in
2007. Israel has severely restricted the import of concrete and other
building materials into Gaza, fearing that militants will use them to
build rockets and reinforce cross-border attack tunnels.

In its report issued late Friday, Shelter Cluster said 17,000 Gaza
housing units were destroyed or severely damaged during this summer's
war and 5,000 units still need work after damage sustained in the
previous military campaigns. In addition, it says, Gaza has a housing
deficit of 75,000 units.
abelard
2014-09-01 08:57:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Mel Rowing
"Interested parties have 45 days in which to register objections."
A legal process is in place where questions regarding any title or
compensation etc. may be considered.
Governments do this sort of thing all over the world all of the time.
Just like when Nazi Germany seized all the property, land and businesses
from the Jews, really. If the Jew wished to dispute the confiscation,
then they could apply to a Nazi Court to raise their objections.
Definitely not systematic genocidal persecution, just the ordinary
business of government...
If Israel is enthusiastic about building new towns, perhaps it should
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.613194
An international organization involved in assessing post-conflict
reconstruction says it will take 20 years for Gaza's battered and
neglected housing stock to be rebuilt following the war between Hamas
and Israel.
The assessment by Shelter Cluster, co-chaired by the UN refugee agency
and the Red Cross, underscores the complexities involved in an overall
reconstruction program for the Gaza Strip, which some Palestinian
officials have estimated could cost in excess of $6 billion.
Any effort to rebuild Gaza will be hindered by a blockade imposed by
Egypt and Israel since the Islamic militant group Hamas seized power in
2007. Israel has severely restricted the import of concrete and other
building materials into Gaza, fearing that militants will use them to
build rockets and reinforce cross-border attack tunnels.
In its report issued late Friday, Shelter Cluster said 17,000 Gaza
housing units were destroyed or severely damaged during this summer's
war and 5,000 units still need work after damage sustained in the
previous military campaigns. In addition, it says, Gaza has a housing
deficit of 75,000 units.
gives them sommat to concentrate on other than building tunnels
and firing rockets...

and think of all the un jobsworths it employs
--
www.abelard.org
























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Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-01 09:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.613194
An international organization involved in assessing post-conflict
reconstruction says it will take 20 years for Gaza's battered and
neglected housing stock to be rebuilt following the war between Hamas and
Israel.
A war started by the Fakestinians.

Boo-hoo.

Let's imagine Israel attacks Iran, and is defeated. Can you imagine an
'international effort' to rebuild Israeli towns? Can you imagine
chest-beating, hair-pulling readers of _Al-Guardian_ contributing to a
charitable fund to feed Israelis who have lost their homes? Would there be
adverts in the London Tube with a photo of a tousle-haired little girl
standing in front of rubble, begging for money, because little Ruth or Anat
lost her parents in a bomb raid during a war that her parents fucking
started?

No, no and no.

You will _never_ be taken seriously, whilst your obvious anti-Semitism is
so, well .. obvious.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'A conservative is a man who sits and thinks. Mostly sits'.
(Woodrow Wilson)
<http://www.palwatch.org/>
The Todal
2014-09-01 10:10:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
You will _never_ be taken seriously, whilst your obvious anti-Semitism is
so, well .. obvious.
Welcome back, I've really missed you here. Shalom. I'll translate that
unfamiliar word for you: "stop your warmongering".
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-01 21:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
You will _never_ be taken seriously, whilst your obvious anti-Semitism
is so, well .. obvious.
Welcome back, I've really missed you here. Shalom. I'll translate that
unfamiliar word for you: "stop your warmongering".
Another entirely content-free post.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
20 January 2009 - the date on which everything went from being
Clinton's fault, to being Obama's fault
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Mel Rowing
2014-09-01 09:28:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Mel Rowing
"Interested parties have 45 days in which to register objections."
A legal process is in place where questions regarding any title or
compensation etc. may be considered.
Governments do this sort of thing all over the world all of the time.
Just like when Nazi Germany seized all the property, land and businesses
from the Jews, really. If the Jew wished to dispute the confiscation,
then they could apply to a Nazi Court to raise their objections.
No Israel is nothing like Nazi Germany. Believe me I've been there. In
Israel an independent judiciary operates. Both people and government are
subject to the rule of law. Contrast this with Gaza where alleged
Israeli spies are summarily executed.
Post by Steve Walker
Definitely not systematic genocidal persecution, just the ordinary
business of government...
Indeed! How else is the land for infra structural developments to be
obtained?

Donkeys'years ago a now deceased uncle of mine had a field compulsorily
taken over by the local council for council house building purposes. The
compensation amounted to a few hundred pounds. Had he been allowed to
develop the land himself for building purposes, he would have made
thousands.

He never stopped talking about it!
The Todal
2014-09-01 09:51:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Mel Rowing
"Interested parties have 45 days in which to register objections."
A legal process is in place where questions regarding any title or
compensation etc. may be considered.
Governments do this sort of thing all over the world all of the time.
Just like when Nazi Germany seized all the property, land and businesses
from the Jews, really. If the Jew wished to dispute the confiscation,
then they could apply to a Nazi Court to raise their objections.
No Israel is nothing like Nazi Germany. Believe me I've been there.
Sorry, but "believe me, I've been there" doesn't prove anything. You
might be the Unity Mitford of Israel. Certainly you wouldn't have been
arrested and beaten up for being in the wrong place at the wrong time
and having the wrong relatives, like the two American citizens Mohammed
Abu Khdeir and Tariq Abu Khdeir.

Israeli journalists have been brave enough to point out how freedom of
expression has been curtailed in recent months in Israel.



In
Post by Mel Rowing
Israel an independent judiciary operates. Both people and government are
subject to the rule of law. Contrast this with Gaza where alleged
Israeli spies are summarily executed.
As you know very well, it is usual to execute enemy spies in wartime. I
strongly disapprove of extrajudicial executions nevertheless.

Here's how the Israelis enforce the rule of law.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613212

In civilian life, anyone suspected of manslaughter or murder is
immediately arrested, with an investigation coming later. In the IDF the
opposite is true.
Khalil Anati was from the Al-Fawar refugee camp in the southern part of
the West Bank; a soldier in an armored jeep shot him in the back with a
live round and killed him as he was running home. He was 10 years old.
Mohammed Al-Qatari was a promising soccer player from the Al-Amari
refugee camp near Ramallah. A soldier shot him from a distance of
several dozen meters while he was taking part in a demonstration against
the Gaza war. He was 19 years old when he died. Hashem Abu Maria was a
social worker from Beit Ummar who worked for the Geneva-based NGO
Defense for Children International. He participated in a demonstration
against the Gaza war, trying to protect children by preventing them from
throwing stones. An IDF sharpshooter situated on a distant balcony shot
and killed him. He was 45 years old, a father of three children.
Soldiers killed two more demonstrators at that demonstration.
The fighting in Gaza loosened all restraint. Under its umbrella soldiers
permitted themselves to use live fire in order to disperse
demonstrations, settle scores with people throwing stones or Molotov
cocktails – including children – and punish anyone demonstrating against
the war. No one stopped them, no one was arrested or prosecuted.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-mistreats-palestinian-children-in-custody-unicef-reports-1.507665

The United Nations Children Fund estimated that 700 Palestinian children
aged 12-17, most of them boys, are arrested, interrogated and detained
by the Israeli military, police and security agents every year in the
West Bank.

Palestinian children detained by the Israel Defense Forces are subject
to widespread, systematic ill-treatment that violates international law,
a UNICEF report said on Wednesday. "The pattern of ill-treatment
includes ... the practice of blindfolding children and tying their hands
with plastic ties, physical and verbal abuse during transfer to an
interrogation site, including the use of painful restraints," the report
said.

It said minors, most of whom are arrested for throwing stones, suffer
physical violence and threats during their interrogation, are coerced
into confession and do not have immediate access to a lawyer or family
during questioning.

"Treatment inconsistent with child rights continues during court
appearances, including shackling of children, denial of bail and
imposition of custodial sentences and transfer of children outside
occupied Palestinian territory to serve their sentences inside Israel,"
the report said.
Mel Rowing
2014-09-01 12:46:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Mel Rowing
No Israel is nothing like Nazi Germany. Believe me I've been there.
Sorry, but "believe me, I've been there" doesn't prove anything. You
might be the Unity Mitford of Israel. Certainly you wouldn't have been
arrested and beaten up for being in the wrong place at the wrong time
and having the wrong relatives, like the two American citizens Mohammed
Abu Khdeir and Tariq Abu Khdeir.
It's a better qualification than is held by most who swallow the garbage
and then regurgitate routine condemnations of Jews and Israelis.

Who was it that brought alleged killers of Abu Khedir to justice?

http://tinyurl.com/pzaxfug

As I say the rule of law prevails in Israel. You can't get away from the
fact that not many of the world's refugees are Israeli Arabs.
Post by The Todal
Israeli journalists have been brave enough to point out how freedom of
expression has been curtailed in recent months in Israel.
That's a common complaint journalists the world over, even here.
Remember Leverson?
Post by The Todal
In
Post by Mel Rowing
Israel an independent judiciary operates. Both people and government are
subject to the rule of law. Contrast this with Gaza where alleged
Israeli spies are summarily executed.
As you know very well, it is usual to execute enemy spies in wartime. I
strongly disapprove of extrajudicial executions nevertheless.
Here's how the Israelis enforce the rule of law.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613212
In civilian life, anyone suspected of manslaughter or murder is
immediately arrested, with an investigation coming later. In the IDF the
opposite is true.
You mean the matter is investigated and then an arrest made as a result?
Remarkable! It's pretty much the same as here!

The IDF are the Israeli miltary the Israeli Civilian Police is a
completely different entity to the IDF.
Post by The Todal
Khalil Anati was from the Al-Fawar refugee camp in the southern part of
the West Bank; a soldier in an armored jeep shot him in the back with a
live round and killed him as he was running home. He was 10 years old.
Mohammed Al-Qatari was a promising soccer player from the Al-Amari
refugee camp near Ramallah. A soldier shot him from a distance of
several dozen meters while he was taking part in a demonstration against
the Gaza war. He was 19 years old when he died. Hashem Abu Maria was a
social worker from Beit Ummar who worked for the Geneva-based NGO
Defense for Children International. He participated in a demonstration
against the Gaza war, trying to protect children by preventing them from
throwing stones. An IDF sharpshooter situated on a distant balcony shot
and killed him. He was 45 years old, a father of three children.
Soldiers killed two more demonstrators at that demonstration.
The fighting in Gaza loosened all restraint. Under its umbrella soldiers
permitted themselves to use live fire in order to disperse
demonstrations, settle scores with people throwing stones or Molotov
cocktails – including children – and punish anyone demonstrating against
the war. No one stopped them, no one was arrested or prosecuted.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-mistreats-palestinian-children-in-custody-unicef-reports-1.507665
These kids who throw stones at soldiers are not sweet little innocents
who would otherwise be playing marbles. They are street urchins who
would steal your eye sockets given the chance. When people riot against
soldiers, when the riot degenerates into shooting which usually begins
with firing over heads, then people do tend to get killed and injured
which is in itself is a good reason why one should never throw stones at
armed soldiers. It's dangerous! Such situations can be very volatile and
emotions can run high.

These are not normal kids playing pranks. When they are caught they are
likely to be chastised. What else is to be done with them?

Al-Amari refugee camp near Ramallah? Why are these people still living
in refugee camps nearly 70 years after the event and shed loads of
foreign aid? Why has Israel no refugee camps? There's the answer to your
questions. Don't these buggers ever work?
Post by The Todal
The United Nations Children Fund estimated that 700 Palestinian children
aged 12-17, most of them boys, are arrested, interrogated and detained
by the Israeli military, police and security agents every year in the
West Bank.
I think you'll find figures of a similar or even higher order here too.

They can be little buggers.
Post by The Todal
Palestinian children detained by the Israel Defense Forces are subject
to widespread, systematic ill-treatment that violates international law,
a UNICEF report said on Wednesday. "The pattern of ill-treatment
includes ... the practice of blindfolding children and tying their hands
with plastic ties, physical and verbal abuse during transfer to an
interrogation site, including the use of painful restraints," the report
said.
It said minors, most of whom are arrested for throwing stones, suffer
physical violence and threats during their interrogation, are coerced
into confession and do not have immediate access to a lawyer or family
during questioning.
"Treatment inconsistent with child rights continues during court
appearances, including shackling of children, denial of bail and
imposition of custodial sentences and transfer of children outside
occupied Palestinian territory to serve their sentences inside Israel,"
the report said.
UNICEF - UN organisation. Not much room for the truth there then! Or
empathy for Western values and lifestyles. In these straitened times its
time the subscriptions were slashed, deeply!
The Todal
2014-09-01 13:03:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by The Todal
Post by Mel Rowing
No Israel is nothing like Nazi Germany. Believe me I've been there.
Sorry, but "believe me, I've been there" doesn't prove anything. You
might be the Unity Mitford of Israel. Certainly you wouldn't have been
arrested and beaten up for being in the wrong place at the wrong time
and having the wrong relatives, like the two American citizens Mohammed
Abu Khdeir and Tariq Abu Khdeir.
It's a better qualification than is held by most who swallow the garbage
and then regurgitate routine condemnations of Jews and Israelis.
But nowhere near as good a qualification as those who, like me, read as
many outlets of the Israeli press as possible.
Post by Mel Rowing
Who was it that brought alleged killers of Abu Khedir to justice?
http://tinyurl.com/pzaxfug
I don't see that as a major cause for self-congratulation. The racist
bigots who caught this young man and set him on fire were not all that
difficult to find.
Post by Mel Rowing
As I say the rule of law prevails in Israel. You can't get away from the
fact that not many of the world's refugees are Israeli Arabs.
Post by The Todal
Israeli journalists have been brave enough to point out how freedom of
expression has been curtailed in recent months in Israel.
That's a common complaint journalists the world over, even here.
Remember Leverson?
Not in any way the same.
The complaint is that ordinary people (not exclusively journalists) have
been menaced and pilloried for any criticism of the attack on Gaza, any
sympathy for wounded Palestinians.
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by The Todal
In
Post by Mel Rowing
Israel an independent judiciary operates. Both people and government are
subject to the rule of law. Contrast this with Gaza where alleged
Israeli spies are summarily executed.
As you know very well, it is usual to execute enemy spies in wartime. I
strongly disapprove of extrajudicial executions nevertheless.
Here's how the Israelis enforce the rule of law.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613212
In civilian life, anyone suspected of manslaughter or murder is
immediately arrested, with an investigation coming later. In the IDF the
opposite is true.
You mean the matter is investigated and then an arrest made as a result?
Remarkable! It's pretty much the same as here!
No, you haven't read it properly.

I mean that when IDF troops shoot demonstrators or randomly chosen
Palestinian kids, nobody ever investigates it and nobody ever makes arrests.
Post by Mel Rowing
They can be little buggers.
Our soldiers in Northern Ireland managed not to execute the kids who
threw stones at them. And certainly not the protestors who were offering
no threats of violence at all. Well, only on Bloody Sunday.
Bill
2014-09-01 13:17:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
I mean that when IDF troops shoot demonstrators or randomly chosen
Palestinian kids, nobody ever investigates it and nobody ever makes arrests.
Post by Mel Rowing
They can be little buggers.
Our soldiers in Northern Ireland managed not to execute the kids who
threw stones at them. And certainly not the protestors who were offering
no threats of violence at all. Well, only on Bloody Sunday.
The soldiers in Northern Ireland used to tell the people.

"If you don't throw stones at soldiers they won't shoot you dead"
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-03 10:05:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
The complaint is that ordinary people (not exclusively journalists) have
been menaced and pilloried for any criticism of the attack on Gaza, any
sympathy for wounded Palestinians.
More meaningless twaddle.

Have you ever been in Israel?

<http://www.theguardian.com/profile/harrietsherwood>

This anti-Semitic cunt posted some of the most virulent bile that would
not have been out of place in _Der Stürmer_, and yet I have never heard of
her being 'menaced and pilloried'.
Post by The Todal
I mean that when IDF troops shoot demonstrators or randomly chosen
Palestinian kids, nobody ever investigates it and nobody ever makes arrests.
Once again, a statement of opinion, presented as fact.

And you lose another one.

Come on .. a witty rejoinder. You know you want to.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'The same Europe that let Jews be exterminated on its soil is letting
Jews be exterminated now, looking away and letting itself off the
hook...'
(Giulio Meotti)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
The Todal
2014-09-03 10:54:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
The complaint is that ordinary people (not exclusively journalists) have
been menaced and pilloried for any criticism of the attack on Gaza, any
sympathy for wounded Palestinians.
More meaningless twaddle.
You need to read more widely. As you can see, I quote from important and
relevant source material. You, on the other hand, keep telling me what
your own views are, which tend to be very repetitive and predictable.
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Have you ever been in Israel?
Yes. What's that got to do with it? Are you going to tell me that you
felt absolutely free to express your opinions in Israel, even though
those opinions are rabidly pro-Israel?

You have failed to read the links I posted previously.

I don't know which of these you can read without taking out a
subscription to Haaretz. I think you should subscribe to it. Far better
than the Guardian on Israeli issues.

++
http://www.haaretz.com/news/features/.premium-1.610368
Israel Prize laureate and renowned scholar Zeev Sternhell fears the
collapse of Israeli democracy, and compares the current atmosphere with
that of 1940s’ France. The time we have left to reverse this frightening
trend is running out, he warns

I asked Sternhell now whether he thinks that very soon, we will no
longer be able to claim that we are the only democracy in the Middle East.

“Indeed, we will no longer be able to say that,” he replied, adding,
“There is no doubt that the main state authorities do not act with the
same determination against the right and against the left, or on the
eastern side of the Green Line and on the western side. All in all,
these bodies view themselves as much closer to the settlement project’s
aims than to the goal of Israel having a Jewish majority and a democracy
that grants equality to everyone. The danger is that in good periods,
when everything is ostensibly normal, the situation is glossed over. But
in a crisis, like we have now, anyone critical of the ‘normal’ order is
absolutely afraid to go out in the street.”

“What we’ve seen here in the past few weeks is absolute conformism on
the part of most of Israel’s intellectuals. They’ve just followed the
herd. By intellectuals I mean professors and journalists. The
intellectual bankruptcy of the mass media in this war is total. It’s not
easy to go against the herd, you can easily be trampled. But the role of
the intellectual and the journalist is not to applaud the government.
Democracy crumbles when the intellectuals, the educated classes, toe the
line of the thugs or look at them with a smile. People here say, ‘It’s
not so terrible, it’s nothing like fascism – we have free elections and
parties and a parliament.’ Yet, we reached a crisis in this war, in
which, without anyone asking them to do so, all kinds of university
bodies are suddenly demanding that the entire academic community roll
back its criticism.”

Do you think it’s due to fear?

“Fear of the authorities, fear of possible budgetary sanctions and fear
of pressure from the street. The personification of shame and disgrace
occurred when the dean of the law faculty of Bar-Ilan University
threatened sanctions against one of his colleagues because the latter
added a couple of sentences to an announcement about exam dates in which
he expressed sorrow at the killing and loss of life on both sides. To
grieve for the loss of life on both sides is already a subversive act,
treason. We are arriving at a situation of purely formal democracy,
which keeps sinking to ever lower levels.”


++


http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.612622
In response to Tel Aviv University’s recent letter “embrac[ing] the
security forces” and threatening disciplinary action against students
and employees expressing “hurtful and extremist statements” in social
media, the university’s social science department held a conference
before a packed hall this week titled, “How to think about the war.”

“We have to make an effort and cleanse the area of the endless
security-oriented and patriotic talk, not only because we are sick and
tired of it, but because it is designed to shut down and prevent
thinking. Thinking is the most urgent thing in this war, and the most
lacking. Many institutions are working to block it, like the media, for
example,” said the Hebrew Culture Department’s Prof. Ishay Rosen-Zvi,
who initiated the conference.

He told Haaretz, “After the letter from the university administration,
we felt that we were being silenced. In addition, the public discourse
in the media was uniform and monotonous, and we felt that we were being
lied to all the time.”

During Operation Protective Edge, the administration sent out a letter
stating, “Tel Aviv University embraces the security forces and condemns
hurtful reactions on the social networks,” and “strongly condemns
hurtful and extremist statements which are being disseminated these days
on the social networks, and which have no place in the public
discourse.” The letter also warned that the administration “will operate
according to the disciplinary regulations applying to students and
employees, in every case of a violation.”

++
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-05 11:26:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
The complaint is that ordinary people (not exclusively journalists)
have been menaced and pilloried for any criticism of the attack on
Gaza, any sympathy for wounded Palestinians.
More meaningless twaddle.
You need to read more widely. As you can see, I quote from important and
relevant source material.
You cherrypick from those sources which support your worldview, which is
that Israel 'massacres children', and that Israel 'violates international
law'.
Post by The Todal
You, on the other hand, keep telling me what your own views are, which
tend to be very repetitive and predictable.
Unlike you, I am qualified to speak on international law.
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Have you ever been in Israel?
Yes.
Wow. If you lie so effortlessly about something so anodine...
Post by The Todal
What's that got to do with it?
You've been pontificating on how Israeli soldiers are 'butchers' for
months, now. About how Israel is a totalitarian hell where no one has any
freedom to dissent. About how the Israeli army sends death squads around
the country to 'slaughter' innocent Fakie babies in their beds.

Since you have never set foot in Israel, all of your information comes from
second hand sources. And it has been conclusively shown that Fakestinian
sources (and their whores in Israel, Ha'Arretz) lie constantly.

I snipped the rest, because you obviously think that quoting reams of other
people's words, is a substitute for knowledge.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'What a distressing contrast there is between the radiant intelligence
of the child, and the feeble mentality of the average adult'
(Sigmund Freud (1856 - 1939))
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-03 09:43:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
In Israel an independent judiciary operates. Both people and government
are subject to the rule of law. Contrast this with Gaza where alleged
Israeli spies are summarily executed.
As you know very well, it is usual to execute enemy spies in wartime. I
strongly disapprove of extrajudicial executions nevertheless.
Here's how the Israelis enforce the rule of law.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613212
Here's how the Fakestinians 'enforce the rule of law'.

But then, as you have demonstrated all too abundantly, you know absolutely
nothing of the law - despite your hilarious (and, I'm gratified to note,
never-since-repeated) claim that your 'legal qualifications are
considerably better than [mine]'. Your knowledge of the law starts and
stops with repeats of 'The Bill' on Dave.

<http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/ari-lieberman/palestinians-deserving-of-a-state/>

{ snip stuff about how Israel is 'bad to children' }

And they say that it's Americans who can't 'do irony'...



Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'It's time for the human race to enter the solar system'
(Dan Quayle (1947 - ))
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
The Todal
2014-09-03 10:02:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
In Israel an independent judiciary operates. Both people and government
are subject to the rule of law. Contrast this with Gaza where alleged
Israeli spies are summarily executed.
As you know very well, it is usual to execute enemy spies in wartime. I
strongly disapprove of extrajudicial executions nevertheless.
Here's how the Israelis enforce the rule of law.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613212
Here's how the Fakestinians 'enforce the rule of law'.
Again you make the elementary mistake of believing that if the Hamas
terrorists commit atrocities, Israel has no alternative but to follow
suit and misbehave in the same way.
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
But then, as you have demonstrated all too abundantly, you know absolutely
nothing of the law - despite your hilarious (and, I'm gratified to note,
never-since-repeated) claim that your 'legal qualifications are
considerably better than [mine]'.
Never since repeated? I had better rectify that.

I have absolutely no doubt that my law qualifications are considerably
better than yours. No doubt at all.
Snow_Flower
2014-09-03 10:22:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
In Israel an independent judiciary operates. Both people and government
are subject to the rule of law. Contrast this with Gaza where alleged
Israeli spies are summarily executed.
As you know very well, it is usual to execute enemy spies in wartime. I
strongly disapprove of extrajudicial executions nevertheless.
Here's how the Israelis enforce the rule of law.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613212
Here's how the Fakestinians 'enforce the rule of law'.
Again you make the elementary mistake of believing that if the Hamas
terrorists commit atrocities, Israel has no alternative but to follow
suit and misbehave in the same way.
Israel could just sit back and watch, but
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do
nothing" - Edmund Burke.
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
But then, as you have demonstrated all too abundantly, you know absolutely
nothing of the law - despite your hilarious (and, I'm gratified to note,
never-since-repeated) claim that your 'legal qualifications are
considerably better than [mine]'.
Never since repeated? I had better rectify that.
I have absolutely no doubt that my law qualifications are considerably
better than yours. No doubt at all.
No one is interested in who has the biggest penis, or even who is the
biggest penis.
The Todal
2014-09-03 11:06:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Snow_Flower
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
But then, as you have demonstrated all too abundantly, you know absolutely
nothing of the law - despite your hilarious (and, I'm gratified to note,
never-since-repeated) claim that your 'legal qualifications are
considerably better than [mine]'.
Never since repeated? I had better rectify that.
I have absolutely no doubt that my law qualifications are considerably
better than yours. No doubt at all.
No one is interested in who has the biggest penis, or even who is the
biggest penis.
Nobody other that Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein, which is why I said it.

To everyone else in the group, I ask you to assume that your law (or
legal) qualifications equal or exceed mine.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-03 19:30:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Snow_Flower
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
But then, as you have demonstrated all too abundantly, you know
absolutely nothing of the law - despite your hilarious (and, I'm
gratified to note, never-since-repeated) claim that your 'legal
qualifications are considerably better than [mine]'.
Never since repeated? I had better rectify that.
I have absolutely no doubt that my law qualifications are considerably
better than yours. No doubt at all.
No one is interested in who has the biggest penis, or even who is the
biggest penis.
Nobody other that Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein, which is why I said it.
To everyone else in the group, I ask you to assume that your law (or
legal) qualifications equal or exceed mine.
ROFL! Mindless, stupid _ad hominem_.

You have no legal qualifications. I have an LLB.

It's really quite simple.

But then, so are you. And that complicates it.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'I want to tell you a terrific story about oral contraception. I asked
this girl to sleep with me and she said "No"'
(Woody Allen)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
The Todal
2014-09-03 20:14:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
You have no legal qualifications. I have an LLB.
Aw, bless.
Roger Dewhurst
2014-09-03 20:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Snow_Flower
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
But then, as you have demonstrated all too abundantly, you know
absolutely
nothing of the law - despite your hilarious (and, I'm gratified to note,
never-since-repeated) claim that your 'legal qualifications are
considerably better than [mine]'.
Never since repeated? I had better rectify that.
I have absolutely no doubt that my law qualifications are considerably
better than yours. No doubt at all.
No one is interested in who has the biggest penis, or even who is the
biggest penis.
Nobody other that Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein, which is why I said it.
To everyone else in the group, I ask you to assume that your law (or
legal) qualifications equal or exceed mine.
You are claiming legal qualifications. What are they? Where were they obtained? When were they obtained? Do you have a relevant certificate?
Fredxxx
2014-09-03 10:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
In Israel an independent judiciary operates. Both people and government
are subject to the rule of law. Contrast this with Gaza where alleged
Israeli spies are summarily executed.
As you know very well, it is usual to execute enemy spies in wartime. I
strongly disapprove of extrajudicial executions nevertheless.
Here's how the Israelis enforce the rule of law.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613212
Here's how the Fakestinians 'enforce the rule of law'.
Again you make the elementary mistake of believing that if the Hamas
terrorists commit atrocities, Israel has no alternative but to follow
suit and misbehave in the same way.
Can you enlighten us another way of stopping the rockets being sent into
Israel?

Would you not agree that such behaviour is effective?
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-03 16:58:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
In Israel an independent judiciary operates. Both people and
government are subject to the rule of law. Contrast this with Gaza
where alleged Israeli spies are summarily executed.
As you know very well, it is usual to execute enemy spies in wartime. I
strongly disapprove of extrajudicial executions nevertheless.
Here's how the Israelis enforce the rule of law.
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.613212
Here's how the Fakestinians 'enforce the rule of law'.
Again you make the elementary mistake of believing that if the Hamas
terrorists commit atrocities, Israel has no alternative but to follow
suit and misbehave in the same way.
_You_ make the 'elementary mistake' of believing that just because you
continue to claim (without any evidence whatsoever) that Israel
'misbehave[s]', that it somehow bears any resemblance to fact.

If Israel launched inaccurate rockets and mortars at civilan targets, this
would be an 'atrocity'. But surgical air strikes and use of infantry which
resulted in a _very_ low death toll (considering the firepower both
potential and actually deployed) is not 'an atrocity'. Tsahal has the
ability to commit 'genocide' in Gaza. 2,000 deaths is only 'genocide' in
the minds of hysterical fools like you for whom 'genocide' is a synonym for
'killings by people I don't like'.

Israel _did not_ commit any 'atrocities' during 'Cast Lead' in 2008.
Israel _did not_ commit any 'atrocities' during 'Pillar of Defense' in
2012. And Israel _did not_ commit any 'atrocities' during 'Protective
Edge' in 2014.

If you have _impartial_ evidence to suggest that they did (that's how logic
works, even though I suspect you just stare open-mouthed when that word is
used), I suggest that you provide it.
Post by The Todal
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
But then, as you have demonstrated all too abundantly, you know
absolutely nothing of the law - despite your hilarious (and, I'm
gratified to note, never-since-repeated) claim that your 'legal
qualifications are considerably better than [mine]'.
Never since repeated? I had better rectify that.
I have absolutely no doubt that my law qualifications are considerably
better than yours. No doubt at all.
I was right: you're a fool.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'In reality, the state is nothing but a machine for the oppression of
one class by another, and indeed in the democratic republic no less
than in the monarchy'
(Friedrich Engels (1820 - 1895))
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
abelard
2014-09-03 20:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
I have absolutely no doubt that my law qualifications are considerably
better than yours. No doubt at all.
you seem to have absolutely no doubt about anything...

that is a mark of the delusional
--
www.abelard.org
























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The Todal
2014-09-03 20:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
I have absolutely no doubt that my law qualifications are considerably
better than yours. No doubt at all.
you seem to have absolutely no doubt about anything...
that is a mark of the delusional
I doubt that.
The Todal
2014-09-01 08:47:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
"Interested parties have 45 days in which to register objections."
A legal process is in place where questions regarding any title or
compensation etc. may be considered.
Governments do this sort of thing all over the world all of the time.
Oh, right. A compulsory purchase order to enable the government to build
a hyperspace bypass.
Post by Mel Rowing
Jerusalem is an occupied city. The Israeli government is also the legal
government of Jerusalem and indeed the West Bank. This government has
already announce that any future negotiations over the future of the
West Bank will not include Jerusalem which has a special place in Jewish
culture and history.
It has a special place in Islam too.

Maybe if I used to live in your house and it has a special place for me
in my heart, I should be allowed to turf you out and move in.

The Americans don't share your sanguine opinions on this topic.

Quote

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.613424

The United States sees Israel's announcement on Sunday of a land
appropriation for possible settlement construction in the West Bank as
"counterproductive" to peace efforts and urges the Israeli government to
reverse the decision, a State Department official said.

Israel’s Civil Administration in the West Bank announced the takeover of
988 acres (3,799 dunams) belonging to five Palestinian villages between
the Etzion settlement bloc and Jerusalem. The move clears the way for
construction of a new settlement named Gvaot.

The announcement follows the cabinet’s decision last week to take over
the land in response to the June kidnapping and killing of three teenage
Jewish boys by Hamas militants in the area.

"We have long made clear our opposition to continued settlement
activity," the U.S. official said. "This announcement, like every other
settlement announcement Israel makes, planning step they approve and
construction tender they issue is counterproductive to Israel's stated
goal of a negotiated two-state solution with the Palestinians."

"We urge the government of Israel to reverse this decision," the
official said in Washington.

Unquote

And the Israeli Justice Minister doesn't share your sanguine opinions on
this topic.

Quote

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.613319

Israel’s Civil Administration in the West Bank yesterday announced the
takeover of 988 acres (3,799 dunams) belonging to five Palestinian
villages between the Etzion settlement bloc and Jerusalem. The move
clears the way for construction of a new settlement named Gvaot.

The announcement follows the cabinet’s decision last week to take over
the land in response to the June kidnapping and killing of three teenage
Jewish boys by Hamas militants in the area.

Peace Now, which monitors settlement construction, said it was the
largest Israeli appropriation of West Bank land in 30 years.

David Perl, head of the Gush Etzion local council, said the “declaration
of some 4,000 dunams as state land paves the way for the establishment
of Gvaot, a new city in Gush Etzion. I want to congratulate the prime
minister and the government of Israel on their promotion of the
initiative, and the defense minister and head of the civil
administration on getting the decision approved.”

The appropriated land belongs to five Palestinian villages in the
Bethlehem area: Jaba, Surif, Wadi Fukin, Husan and Nahalin.

The move is the latest of a series of plans designed to attach the
Etzion settlement bloc to Jerusalem and its environs. Construction of a
major settlement, known as Gvaot, at the location has been mooted by
Israel since the year 2000. Last year, the government invited bids for
the building of 1,000 housing units at the site, and 523 are currently
under construction. Ten families now live on the site, which is adjacent
to a yeshiva.

Justice Minister Tzipi Livni told IDF Radio last night that the timing
of the announcement was inappropriate. “Israel now needs to be
recruiting the world to prevent steps being taken against it, and to
work together with those moderate forces” she said. “Anything that can
turn attention toward us and arouse criticism against us hurts the very
things we are trying to achieve.”
abelard
2014-09-01 08:53:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Justice Minister Tzipi Livni told IDF Radio last night that the timing
of the announcement was inappropriate. “Israel now needs to be
recruiting the world to prevent steps being taken against it, and to
work together with those moderate forces” she said. “Anything that can
turn attention toward us and arouse criticism against us hurts the very
things we are trying to achieve.”
who is 'us'?...and what is 'we' trying to achieve?
--
www.abelard.org
























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The Todal
2014-09-01 08:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Justice Minister Tzipi Livni told IDF Radio last night that the timing
of the announcement was inappropriate. “Israel now needs to be
recruiting the world to prevent steps being taken against it, and to
work together with those moderate forces” she said. “Anything that can
turn attention toward us and arouse criticism against us hurts the very
things we are trying to achieve.”
who is 'us'?...and what is 'we' trying to achieve?
Don't tempt me to reply to this, little one.
abelard
2014-09-01 09:12:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Justice Minister Tzipi Livni told IDF Radio last night that the timing
of the announcement was inappropriate. “Israel now needs to be
recruiting the world to prevent steps being taken against it, and to
work together with those moderate forces” she said. “Anything that can
turn attention toward us and arouse criticism against us hurts the very
things we are trying to achieve.”
who is 'us'?...and what is 'we' trying to achieve?
Don't tempt me to reply to this, little one.
your evasion is recorded
--
www.abelard.org
























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http://www.avast.com
The Todal
2014-09-01 09:21:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Post by abelard
Post by The Todal
Justice Minister Tzipi Livni told IDF Radio last night that the timing
of the announcement was inappropriate. “Israel now needs to be
recruiting the world to prevent steps being taken against it, and to
work together with those moderate forces” she said. “Anything that can
turn attention toward us and arouse criticism against us hurts the very
things we are trying to achieve.”
who is 'us'?...and what is 'we' trying to achieve?
Don't tempt me to reply to this, little one.
your evasion is recorded
Excellent, I'll use it as my Voicemail message.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-01 10:04:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Mel Rowing
Jerusalem is an occupied city. The Israeli government is also the legal
government of Jerusalem and indeed the West Bank. This government has
already announce that any future negotiations over the future of the
West Bank will not include Jerusalem which has a special place in Jewish
culture and history.
It has a special place in Islam too.
Yes, so 'special' that it's not mentioned once in their 'holy' book.
Post by The Todal
Maybe if I used to live in your house and it has a special place for me
in my heart, I should be allowed to turf you out and move in.
Another own goal.
Post by The Todal
The Americans don't share your sanguine opinions on this topic.
There you go again: quoting people with no authority and whose opinion
matters not, as if they have any say in what Israel does with its own land.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'For the first time in Mideast history, there is an independent
judiciary willing to listen to grievances of Arabs - that judiciary is
called the Israeli Supreme Court'
(Professor Alan M. Dershowitz (1938 - ))
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
yetti
2014-09-01 10:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
Post by Mel Rowing
Jerusalem is an occupied city. The Israeli government is also the legal
government of Jerusalem and indeed the West Bank. This government has
already announce that any future negotiations over the future of the
West Bank will not include Jerusalem which has a special place in Jewish
culture and history.
It has a special place in Islam too.
Yes, so 'special' that it's not mentioned once in their 'holy' book.
Post by The Todal
Maybe if I used to live in your house and it has a special place for me
in my heart, I should be allowed to turf you out and move in.
Another own goal.
Post by The Todal
The Americans don't share your sanguine opinions on this topic.
There you go again: quoting people with no authority and whose opinion
matters not, as if they have any say in what Israel does with its own land.
"Its own land"?

By this presumably you mean land taken during 1967 from other countries, the occupation of which is illegal under international law that is recognised by just about every country in the world, except Israel?
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abelard
2014-09-01 10:27:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetti
By this presumably you mean land taken during 1967 from other countries, the occupation of which is illegal under international law that is recognised by just about every country in the world, except Israel?
when you start going on about returning austria to the national
socialists
australia to the abos
ukraine to the short loon in moscow....

and northumbria to what ever tribe of backward crackpots last occupied
that land...

i may take you more seriously
--
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Roger Dewhurst
2014-09-03 00:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by yetti
By this presumably you mean land taken during 1967 from other countries, the occupation of which is illegal under international law that is recognised by just about every country in the world, except Israel?
when you start going on about returning austria to the national
socialists
australia to the abos
ukraine to the short loon in moscow....
and northumbria to what ever tribe of backward crackpots last occupied
that land...
i may take you more seriously
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+1
Bill
2014-09-01 12:23:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetti
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
Post by Mel Rowing
Jerusalem is an occupied city. The Israeli government is also the legal
government of Jerusalem and indeed the West Bank. This government has
already announce that any future negotiations over the future of the
West Bank will not include Jerusalem which has a special place in Jewish
culture and history.
It has a special place in Islam too.
Yes, so 'special' that it's not mentioned once in their 'holy' book.
Post by The Todal
Maybe if I used to live in your house and it has a special place for me
in my heart, I should be allowed to turf you out and move in.
Another own goal.
Post by The Todal
The Americans don't share your sanguine opinions on this topic.
There you go again: quoting people with no authority and whose opinion
matters not, as if they have any say in what Israel does with its own land.
"Its own land"?
By this presumably you mean land taken during 1967 from other countries, the occupation of which is illegal under international law that is recognised by just about every country in the world, except Israel?
No, the land isn't registered as being in private ownership.

Probably right back to the Ottoman Empire...
Roger Dewhurst
2014-09-03 00:41:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetti
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
Post by Mel Rowing
Jerusalem is an occupied city. The Israeli government is also the legal
government of Jerusalem and indeed the West Bank. This government has
already announce that any future negotiations over the future of the
West Bank will not include Jerusalem which has a special place in Jewish
culture and history.
It has a special place in Islam too.
Yes, so 'special' that it's not mentioned once in their 'holy' book.
Post by The Todal
Maybe if I used to live in your house and it has a special place for me
in my heart, I should be allowed to turf you out and move in.
Another own goal.
Post by The Todal
The Americans don't share your sanguine opinions on this topic.
There you go again: quoting people with no authority and whose opinion
matters not, as if they have any say in what Israel does with its own land.
"Its own land"?
By this presumably you mean land taken during 1967 from other countries, the occupation of which is illegal under international law that is recognised by just about every country in the world, except Israel?
--
Posted by Mimo Usenet Browser v0.2.5
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Do you suppose for one tiny moment that had the boot been on the other foot, Israel losing land to Jordan, Syria or Egypt that the same people would be clamouring for its return to Israel? Pigs might fly.
Roger Dewhurst
2014-09-03 00:44:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetti
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
Post by Mel Rowing
Jerusalem is an occupied city. The Israeli government is also the legal
government of Jerusalem and indeed the West Bank. This government has
already announce that any future negotiations over the future of the
West Bank will not include Jerusalem which has a special place in Jewish
culture and history.
It has a special place in Islam too.
Yes, so 'special' that it's not mentioned once in their 'holy' book.
Post by The Todal
Maybe if I used to live in your house and it has a special place for me
in my heart, I should be allowed to turf you out and move in.
Another own goal.
Post by The Todal
The Americans don't share your sanguine opinions on this topic.
There you go again: quoting people with no authority and whose opinion
matters not, as if they have any say in what Israel does with its own land.
"Its own land"?
By this presumably you mean land taken during 1967 from other countries, the occupation of which is illegal under international law that is recognised by just about every country in the world, except Israel?
--
Posted by Mimo Usenet Browser v0.2.5
http://www.mimousenet.com/mimo/post
Lots of European territory changed hands during and after WW2. Why not go and wank yourself at the Un demanding that all the borders be put back? Your daft and soaking wet behind the ears.
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-03 15:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by yetti
Post by Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
Post by The Todal
Post by Mel Rowing
Jerusalem is an occupied city. The Israeli government is also the
legal government of Jerusalem and indeed the West Bank. This
government has already announce that any future negotiations over the
future of the West Bank will not include Jerusalem which has a
special place in Jewish culture and history.
It has a special place in Islam too.
Yes, so 'special' that it's not mentioned once in their 'holy' book.
Post by The Todal
Maybe if I used to live in your house and it has a special place for
me in my heart, I should be allowed to turf you out and move in.
Another own goal.
Post by The Todal
The Americans don't share your sanguine opinions on this topic.
There you go again: quoting people with no authority and whose opinion
matters not, as if they have any say in what Israel does with its own land.
"Its own land"?
By this presumably you mean land taken during 1967 from other countries,
the occupation of which is illegal under international law that is
recognised by just about every country in the world, except Israel?
The problem here is that you have no notion or comprehension of
'international law', and are thus mindlessly and stupidly parroting what
you have heard others claim.

The first thing you have to get into your thick, racist cunt skull, is that
'every country in the world' does not get to define public international
law, nor do they get to decide what is illegal and what is not illegal,
just by stating it.

I could now demonstrate the many ways in which Israeli presence in Judea &
Samaria is in full and absolute compliance with public international law.
But I have already done so. Tens of times - perhaps more.

You do not care. You chant your mantra not because you believe it, but
because you hate Jews.

I sincerely hope that your life ends violently.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'No woman will ever be satisfied because no man will ever have a
chocolate penis that shoots out money'
(Anon)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Mel Rowing
2014-09-01 14:06:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Mel Rowing
Jerusalem is an occupied city. The Israeli government is also the legal
government of Jerusalem and indeed the West Bank. This government has
already announce that any future negotiations over the future of the
West Bank will not include Jerusalem which has a special place in Jewish
culture and history.
It has a special place in Islam too.
As it has also in Christianity.

However, it so happens that the city has a population that is 62% Jewish
and 35% Arab. Any plebiscite on the matter would surely go only one way.
But there is not going to be any plebiscite. The situation is non
negotiable. Prior to the
Post by The Todal
Maybe if I used to live in your house and it has a special place for me
in my heart, I should be allowed to turf you out and move in.
Nobody is going to be turfed out of anywhere. We are talking of land
that bears little or no residential housing.

Anyone who has good title to the land is free to object and no doubt if
there are any such cases, rights losers will be compensated. It's a
procedure that operates to a greater or lesser extent in all developed
countries.
Post by The Todal
The Americans don't share your sanguine opinions on this topic.
All of them? There exists in the US a powerful and wealthy Jewish
political lobby. It would be a brave president who would move against them.
Post by The Todal
Quote
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.613424
The United States sees Israel's announcement on Sunday of a land
appropriation for possible settlement construction in the West Bank as
"counterproductive" to peace efforts and urges the Israeli government to
reverse the decision, a State Department official said.
All Jewish settlements wherever built are on purchased (what we would
call freehold) land initially from former Ottoman landlords and latterly
from Arabs. No land has been stolen from anybody. There has always been
a legal system in force to prevent such misappropriations. First under
the Ottomans, then under the British administered LoN/UN mandate and
finally Israeli law.

It's nonsense to talk of Palestinian sovereignty. In 1947 is was Israel
that gained (technically took) its sovereignty. At the same time the
Palestinian Arabs in effect refused their independence and so there has
never been a country called Palestine which is consequently more
accurately described as a geographical region.

The problem with the Jewish settlements is that the more intermingled
these become amongst other villages in the region the more difficult it
is going to be to untangle the mishmash should the matter arise.

The question becomes increasingly will there ever be a separate state
solution? As time passes the possibility increases that it's too late
for one to emerge and what is now referred to Israel, the West Bank and
Gaza will merge to become a Greater Israel as the events of last
century's history fade from collective memory.

We shall have to wait and see!. I for one won't be around!
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-01 09:46:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mel Rowing
Jerusalem is an occupied city.
East Jerusalem is currently illegally occupied by Arabs.

There is absolutely no legal basis by which Jerusalem can said to be
illegally 'occupied' by Israel.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'No woman will ever be satisfied because no man will ever have a
chocolate penis that shoots out money'
(Anon)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
R. Mark Clayton
2014-09-01 12:06:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
Something to do with retaliation for the fearless Fattah freedom fighters
defending themselves from the brutal fascist and heavily armed IDF

or was it they kidnapped three [unarmed] kids and murdered them in cold
blood?

You will probably find that the land was the property of the family of the
killer - so a collective punishment illegal under international law.
Bill
2014-09-01 12:41:04 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 1 Sep 2014 13:06:03 +0100, "R. Mark Clayton"
Post by R. Mark Clayton
You will probably find that the land was the property of the family of the
killer - so a collective punishment illegal under international law.
The land is undoubtedly the property of the state.

The people living on it, rent free, are squatters...
True Blue
2014-09-01 15:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill
The people living on it, rent free, are squatters...
Are there any Palestinians who you do not regard as squatters? When did
these people become squatters, as opposed to just people who have lived in
these places for generations?
Bill
2014-09-01 22:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by True Blue
Post by Bill
The people living on it, rent free, are squatters...
Are there any Palestinians who you do not regard as squatters?
Those Arabs who have legal title to their land, and there are plenty
of them, have no difficulty proving that.

Only about 35 to 40% of land in mandated Palestine was ever registered
as privately owned, the rest was vested in the state.

Of what was registered about half was owned by Jews and Jewish
organisations and had been purchased either from the Ottoman Empire or
from the land's registered owners.

It's much the same all over the world.

Or do you feel that the Arab squatters displaced to build the vast new
Gulf cities, especially in Dubai where there was a great deal of very
nasty police violence, should have been allowed to keep on farming
and grazing their crops without either legal title or paying any rent
to the land's owners?
?
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
2014-09-03 09:18:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by True Blue
Post by Bill
The people living on it, rent free, are squatters...
Are there any Palestinians who you do not regard as squatters? When did
these people become squatters, as opposed to just people who have lived
in these places for generations?
They have not 'lived in these places for generations'. They flooded into
Israel around the time of the rebirth of the state of Israel. Their
origins are Jordan, Syria, Egypt and the Lebanon.

They have no more right to land in Israel, than my family has to land in
Cambodia.

Y.
--
Yitzhak Isaac Goldstein
'No matter how good she looks, some other guy is sick and tired of
putting up with her shit'
(Anon)
<http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/>
Peter Percival
2014-09-02 07:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
The attitudes of 'the West' (not too sure just what that is any more) to
Russia's designs on Ukraine and the jews' designs on the Palestinians
are in stark contrast, aren't they?
--
[Dancing is] a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire.
G.B. Shaw quoted in /New Statesman/, 23 March 1962
Rutterkin
2014-09-02 08:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Percival
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the
fuck do they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
The attitudes of 'the West' (not too sure just what that is any more)
to Russia's designs on Ukraine and the jews' designs on the
Palestinians are in stark contrast, aren't they?
NATO, and the governments of Britain and the US, are Zionist whores.
Roger Dewhurst
2014-09-03 00:36:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Percival
Post by Judith
Israel Claims Nearly 1,000 Acres of West Bank Land Near Bethlehem
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0
I am absolutely gob-smacked - words escape me - except for "What the fuck do
they think they are doing".
I look forward to any justification from the usual suspects.
The attitudes of 'the West' (not too sure just what that is any more) to
Russia's designs on Ukraine and the jews' designs on the Palestinians
are in stark contrast, aren't they?
--
[Dancing is] a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire.
G.B. Shaw quoted in /New Statesman/, 23 March 1962
Lose a war and lose some territory. That is the norm. Tough titty.
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