Discussion:
Is THIS how Brexit was won?
(too old to reply)
MM
2017-05-08 16:45:32 UTC
Permalink
http://tinyurl.com/howtounderminedemocracy
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage

MM

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t***@gmail.com
2017-05-08 16:53:43 UTC
Permalink
Jesus, you are desperate.

Terry.
saracene
2017-05-08 16:55:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
http://tinyurl.com/howtounderminedemocracy
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage
With people like Soros at work it is good that there should be a few billionaires active on the side of the angels.
Basil Jet
2017-05-08 16:58:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
http://tinyurl.com/howtounderminedemocracy
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.

"It's Our Job to Control What People Think"

True Blue
2017-05-08 17:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
Incubus
2017-05-09 08:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Basil Jet
2017-05-09 15:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
Incubus
2017-05-09 15:50:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
I think they're just supposed to hate us.
MM
2017-05-10 07:20:10 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 9 May 2017 08:50:49 -0700 (PDT), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
I think they're just supposed to hate us.
Don't worry! We do.

And so will the rest of the nation when the awful truth finally dawns.

Then you'll be like all those millions of Germans in 1945 who swore
blind they ~never~ supported the Nazis. The very idea!

MM

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saracene
2017-05-10 07:24:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
On Tue, 9 May 2017 08:50:49 -0700 (PDT), Incubus
Post by Incubus
I think they're just supposed to hate us.
Don't worry! We do.
And so will the rest of the nation when the awful truth finally dawns.
The awful truth is that Matrxists like you look forward to the ethnic destruction of our nation and its replacement as a home for all the dross of the third world.
Post by MM
Then you'll be like all those millions of Germans in 1945 who swore
blind they ~never~ supported the Nazis. The very idea!
MM
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saracene
2017-05-10 07:29:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Then you'll be like all those millions of Germans in 1945 who swore
blind they ~never~ supported the Nazis. The very idea!
That is the kind of defeat you hope to inflict on this country. Are you Jewish?
abelard
2017-05-10 09:02:15 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 May 2017 00:29:39 -0700 (PDT), saracene
Post by saracene
Post by MM
Then you'll be like all those millions of Germans in 1945 who swore
blind they ~never~ supported the Nazis. The very idea!
That is the kind of defeat you hope to inflict on this country. Are you Jewish?
http://www.abelard.org/socialism/socialism_and_peace.php
stafford cripps, another labour hero

“I do not believe it would be a bad thing for the British working
class if Germany defeated us.” 1936

“Money cannot make armaments. Armaments can only be made by the
skill of the British working class, and it is the British working
class who would be called upon to use them. To-day you have the most
glorious opportunity that the workers have ever had if you will only
use the necessity of capitalism in order to get power yourselves. The
capitalists are in your hands. Refuse to make munitions, refuse to
make armaments, and they are helpless. They would have to hand the
control of the country over to you.” 1937

“The workers must now make it clear beyond all doubt that they
will not support the Government or its armaments in its mad policy
which it is now pursuing.” Mid-1938

A common theme of the Left in the pursuit of disarmament was the
suggestion that unions go on strike to sabotage arms production!.


from attlee down the left wanted to be nice to mister hitler

During the passage through parliament of the Compulsory Military
Training Act (conscription), early May 1939

From the speeches of Socialist MPs:

David Kirkwood
“I will do all I can to get not only the engineers of the Clyde,
but engineers throughout Britain, to down tools against conscription.”

Aneurin Bevan
“What argument have they to persuade the young men to fight except
merely in another squalid attempt to defend themselves against a
redistribution of the international swag?”


Alexander Sloan
“I oppose conscription because it is a capitalist innovation to
secure soldiers to protect private property.”


Neil Maclean
“The Conscription Bill is a Bill which I for one shall advise
every young man of nineteen or twenty to refuse to accept. I shall
advise mothers not to allow their boys to go and I shall advise the
boys not to be conscripted.”
Vidcapper
2017-05-10 07:36:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
On Tue, 9 May 2017 08:50:49 -0700 (PDT), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by Basil Jet
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
I think they're just supposed to hate us.
Don't worry! We do.
And so will the rest of the nation when the awful truth finally dawns.
ISTM that the EU is like a religion to you - you support it merely
through faith, without evidence to back it up.
Post by MM
Then you'll be like all those millions of Germans in 1945 who swore
blind they ~never~ supported the Nazis. The very idea!
I hereby invoke Godwin's Law
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
MM
2017-05-10 07:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
No, it's you knuckle-draggers being misinformed by a technologically
savvy international elite.

MM

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Vidcapper
2017-05-10 07:41:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
No, it's you knuckle-draggers being misinformed by a technologically
savvy international elite.
Are we also being informed by the evidence of our senses?

We are a small island with limited resources, and a rapidly rising
population - it doesn't take a genius to realise the status quo is
unsustainable.

Besides, as a Labour supporter, shouldn't you have sympathy for those
whose wages are being undercut by immigrant labour?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
b***@hotmail.com
2017-05-10 16:36:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Besides, as a Labour supporter, shouldn't you have sympathy for those
whose wages are being undercut by immigrant labour?
Their wages are being undercut by every business owner who can get away with lowering the wages they pay.
Vidcapper
2017-05-11 06:43:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Vidcapper
Besides, as a Labour supporter, shouldn't you have sympathy for
those whose wages are being undercut by immigrant labour?
Their wages are being undercut by every business owner who can get
away with lowering the wages they pay.
But without immigrant labour, would they be able to get away with that
in the first place?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
MM
2017-05-11 09:14:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Vidcapper
Besides, as a Labour supporter, shouldn't you have sympathy for
those whose wages are being undercut by immigrant labour?
Their wages are being undercut by every business owner who can get
away with lowering the wages they pay.
But without immigrant labour, would they be able to get away with that
in the first place?
Of course they would! They are! How many non-migrant workers are on
zero hours contracts or made to go self-employed? Almost a million
now. And the number will rise if the Tories win the election, because
at the moment employers have it all their own way -- and the
taxpayer picks up the bill to cover the costs of in-work benefits
because wily employers are not paying high enough wages for people to
exist on.

MM

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b***@hotmail.com
2017-05-11 15:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
But without immigrant labour, would they be able to get away with that
in the first place?
Yes, whenever there's a slump. In the late 1960s I knew a man who in his youth had teamed up with four others at Bristol's docks, and offered to unload barges of coke for a penny a ton (coke of course is light). They were taken on, but at noon were laid off again because another gang of starving men offered to do the work for three farthings a ton.

The employer did very well, and the workers were treated like shit. I am sorry to inform you that respectable white British-born employers have always done this; that is what an "employer" is, and that is what capitalism requires in order to function. Only the boundaries of behaviour stretch and shrink a little. My father worked for a private family concern for an unbroken 40 years, six days a week, without a company pension, and when he was 64 and injured his arm, a year before qualifying for a state pension, that family concern fired him.
abelard
2017-05-11 18:22:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Vidcapper
But without immigrant labour, would they be able to get away with that
in the first place?
Yes, whenever there's a slump. In the late 1960s I knew a man who
in his youth had teamed up with four others at Bristol's docks, and
offered to unload barges of coke for a penny a ton (coke of course is
light).

how much lighter are coke tons?
Post by b***@hotmail.com
They were taken on, but at noon were laid off again because another gang of starving men offered to do the work for three farthings a ton.
i'm surprised they were so highly paid...

did they use shovels?

you sure had it good...i would have done it for a farthing
for ten tons...

how much did you make in a week?
MM
2017-05-11 09:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@hotmail.com
Post by Vidcapper
Besides, as a Labour supporter, shouldn't you have sympathy for those
whose wages are being undercut by immigrant labour?
Their wages are being undercut by every business owner who can get away with lowering the wages they pay.
Exactly.

MM

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MM
2017-05-11 09:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Post by MM
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
No, it's you knuckle-draggers being misinformed by a technologically
savvy international elite.
Are we also being informed by the evidence of our senses?
We are a small island with limited resources, and a rapidly rising
population - it doesn't take a genius to realise the status quo is
unsustainable.
What is unsustainable is a Britain without migrant workers. The
economy *depends* upon migrant workers. We *do not have enough*
unemployed to fill vacancies if the Brexit mob get their way and
deport every last soul who has any vestige of "foreign" about them.
Post by Vidcapper
Besides, as a Labour supporter, shouldn't you have sympathy for those
whose wages are being undercut by immigrant labour?
No. The first rule of capitalism is supply and demand.

MM

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Incubus
2017-05-10 10:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
No, it's you knuckle-draggers being misinformed by a technologically
savvy international elite.
I'm technologically savvy and I voted to leave the EU. Does that mean I'm part of the elite?
abelard
2017-05-10 10:54:14 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 May 2017 03:13:36 -0700 (PDT), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by MM
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
No, it's you knuckle-draggers being misinformed by a technologically
savvy international elite.
I'm technologically savvy and I voted to leave the EU. Does that mean I'm part of the elite?
knowing more than the average slob is you trying to
gain an unfair advantage over slobs

corvyd will sort your sort out!
Basil Jet
2017-05-10 12:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by MM
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
No, it's you knuckle-draggers being misinformed by a technologically
savvy international elite.
I'm technologically savvy and I voted to leave the EU. Does that mean I'm part of the elite?
If you were really technologically savvy you'd spell elite "31337".
Incubus
2017-05-10 14:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by MM
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
No, it's you knuckle-draggers being misinformed by a technologically
savvy international elite.
I'm technologically savvy and I voted to leave the EU. Does that mean I'm part of the elite?
If you were really technologically savvy you'd spell elite "31337".
I think after the initial BBS craze, it was thence only spelled using such variants by script kiddies and hangers-on hoping for access to warez.
MM
2017-05-11 09:19:36 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 May 2017 03:13:36 -0700 (PDT), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by MM
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
No, it's you knuckle-draggers being misinformed by a technologically
savvy international elite.
I'm technologically savvy and I voted to leave the EU. Does that mean I'm part of the elite?
In your case, is technologically savvy being able to switch on the TV
unaided?

MM

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Incubus
2017-05-11 11:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Wed, 10 May 2017 03:13:36 -0700 (PDT), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by MM
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
No, it's you knuckle-draggers being misinformed by a technologically
savvy international elite.
I'm technologically savvy and I voted to leave the EU. Does that mean I'm part of the elite?
In your case, is technologically savvy being able to switch on the TV
unaided?
That depends how bad my back is that day.
MM
2017-05-12 07:38:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 May 2017 04:40:14 -0700 (PDT), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by abelard
On Wed, 10 May 2017 03:13:36 -0700 (PDT), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by MM
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Incubus
Post by True Blue
Post by Basil Jet
TLDR, but a skim says it's a bunch of journos moaning that they are
losing their power because people are organising against them.
Exactly my thoughts when I read the Graun article a few days ago.
I note that they and MM haven't complained about Tony Blair, Richard Branson, Gina Miller et al trying to thwart the result of the referendum.
Anyway, I'm losing track here... are people supposed to hate Brexiteers
for being knuckle dragging Little Englanders, or are they supposed to
hate us for being a technologically savvy international elite?
No, it's you knuckle-draggers being misinformed by a technologically
savvy international elite.
I'm technologically savvy and I voted to leave the EU. Does that mean I'm part of the elite?
In your case, is technologically savvy being able to switch on the TV
unaided?
That depends how bad my back is that day.
Surely a technologically savvy person such as you describe yourself
would be funded well enough to afford health care at home?

MM

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Vidcapper
2017-05-09 06:58:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
http://tinyurl.com/howtounderminedemocracy
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage
MM
Is there no end to the straws you'll clutch at? 8)

At the end of the day, if enough voters didn't want Brexit, then no
amount of funding or campaigning would have produced a Leave vote!
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
m***@btopenworld.com
2017-05-09 09:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
http://tinyurl.com/howtounderminedemocracy
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage
It operates under various notions which includes putting one's money (or other resources) where one's mouth is. Without such freedom, money largely loses its point!

I am intrigued by this idea that rich people are so because they are corrupt and seek to exercise immense and perverse power over the rest of us.

You might just as well say that media commentators should remain silent about political matters.

How about the Trade Unions? They spend their members' money on political campaigns, all too often without any meaningful consultation regarding that money with its rightful owners.

As a society we are encouraged to obsess about how other people spend their own money. In the US people are much more relaxed regarding such matters. This means that candidates for political office has essentially two tasks within his campaign.

The first is of course to promote his policies so as to attract votes. The second is to raise funds for furtherance and organisation of his campaign. Supporters and non supporters are free to make up their own minds as to whether or not to support a particular candidate or not.

Perhaps we should do similar.
Andy Wainwright
2017-05-10 19:38:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
http://tinyurl.com/howtounderminedemocracy
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage
MM
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There are a lot of tricks you can use to influence elections. Notable is the "dog whistle" approach which appeals to the subconscious as opposed to the rational.

The opposition will soon catch on to these techniques, googling it is easy enough, and the same techniques can then be used against those using such election techniques. Have patience!
Incubus
2017-05-11 11:42:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Wainwright
Post by MM
http://tinyurl.com/howtounderminedemocracy
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/07/the-great-british-brexit-robbery-hijacked-democracy
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/us-billionaire-mercer-helped-back-brexit
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/26/robert-mercer-breitbart-war-on-media-steve-bannon-donald-trump-nigel-farage
MM
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There are a lot of tricks you can use to influence elections. Notable is the "dog whistle" approach which appeals to the subconscious as opposed to the rational.
That's not what dog whistling means. Dog whistling is saying something that looks like plain speech to the majority of the population but will have hidden meaning discernible only to those aware of the usage of language.

Freemasons do it a lot. Ask Yetti.
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