Discussion:
When is a transition not a transition
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James Harris
2017-08-07 09:14:13 UTC
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You folks may already have twigged but it occurred to me last week that
when it comes to Brexit members of the establishment are talking about
two different types of transition.

I think of a transition as an intermediate state between two others. We
are here now. We want to get there. But it's too big a step to do in one
go or time is needed to prepare. We therefore need an intermediate state
or two in between to help the change to go smoothly.

But quite a number of others see it differently. To them, a transition
essentially means an extension of the status quo. When they talk of a
transition on leaving the EU they really mean an extension of existing
arrangements.

Am I right? Have a listen out when various politicians and journalists
talk about a transitional period and see what you think their meaning is.
--
James Harris
m***@btopenworld.com
2017-08-07 09:28:08 UTC
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Post by James Harris
You folks may already have twigged but it occurred to me last week that
when it comes to Brexit members of the establishment are talking about
two different types of transition.
I think of a transition as an intermediate state between two others. We
are here now. We want to get there. But it's too big a step to do in one
go or time is needed to prepare. We therefore need an intermediate state
or two in between to help the change to go smoothly.
But quite a number of others see it differently. To them, a transition
essentially means an extension of the status quo. When they talk of a
transition on leaving the EU they really mean an extension of existing
arrangements.
Am I right? Have a listen out when various politicians and journalists
talk about a transitional period and see what you think their meaning is.
There will be two kinds.

Hard transition means that it will be term limited.

Soft transition means it will go on for ever.

Personally I would prefer no transition. The best card the UK has in its hand is that these negotiations a re term limited under Article 50. That's how it should stay. Any further negotiations should take place *after* Brexit when we shall once more have the freedom and sovereignty to actually enter any agreement.

Give away the term limitation included in Article 50 (and it only can be given away and this situation will go on and on until such time as we have given everything away.

The EU has nothing to offer us. Otherwise presumably after 40+ years, we would already have it. That's why we voted 'out'

Brexit really does mean Brexit. Only from outside the EU can we enter into negotiations with the EU on equal terms and without pre-conditions.
James Harris
2017-08-07 10:27:07 UTC
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Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by James Harris
You folks may already have twigged but it occurred to me last week that
when it comes to Brexit members of the establishment are talking about
two different types of transition.
I think of a transition as an intermediate state between two others. We
are here now. We want to get there. But it's too big a step to do in one
go or time is needed to prepare. We therefore need an intermediate state
or two in between to help the change to go smoothly.
But quite a number of others see it differently. To them, a transition
essentially means an extension of the status quo. When they talk of a
transition on leaving the EU they really mean an extension of existing
arrangements.
Am I right? Have a listen out when various politicians and journalists
talk about a transitional period and see what you think their meaning is.
There will be two kinds.
Hard transition means that it will be term limited.
Soft transition means it will go on for ever.
:-)
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Personally I would prefer no transition. The best card the UK has in its hand is that these negotiations a re term limited under Article 50. That's how it should stay. Any further negotiations should take place *after* Brexit when we shall once more have the freedom and sovereignty to actually enter any agreement.
Rather than a transition I prefer the concept of an implementation plan:
on such-and-such a date we change to X new arrangements, by another date
we change to Y new arrangements, etc. But I accept that the negotiators
are not going to have enough details worked out in time to allow them to
do that in concrete terms so they may need to say: by date Z we will
have worked out what to do for the next phase.

An implementation plan, incidentally, fits with Article 50 which leaves
open what the withdrawal agreement can contain.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Give away the term limitation included in Article 50 (and it only can be given away and this situation will go on and on until such time as we have given everything away.
The EU has nothing to offer us. Otherwise presumably after 40+ years, we would already have it. That's why we voted 'out'
Brexit really does mean Brexit. Only from outside the EU can we enter into negotiations with the EU on equal terms and without pre-conditions.
I am open to a /migration/ to new arrangements but they need to be such
that we can get the benefits of Brexit, not just doing the minimum so as
to avoid negatives. Quite a number of politicians are still firmly in
the Remain camp and want to cling on to as much of the EU as they can.
That would be a mistake. It would reduce our future prosperity.

The government will, I hope, plan to migrate at a sensible pace from
EU-focussed trade to globally focussed trade - with the goal of
maximising UK prosperity and, crucially, while keeping an eye out for
political traps.
--
James Harris
Joe
2017-08-07 11:23:04 UTC
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On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 10:14:13 +0100
Post by James Harris
You folks may already have twigged but it occurred to me last week
that when it comes to Brexit members of the establishment are talking
about two different types of transition.
I think of a transition as an intermediate state between two others.
We are here now. We want to get there. But it's too big a step to do
in one go or time is needed to prepare. We therefore need an
intermediate state or two in between to help the change to go
smoothly.
But quite a number of others see it differently. To them, a
transition essentially means an extension of the status quo. When
they talk of a transition on leaving the EU they really mean an
extension of existing arrangements.
Am I right? Have a listen out when various politicians and
journalists talk about a transitional period and see what you think
their meaning is.
Of course. Virtually every politician in Britain wanted us to stay in
the EU. It follows that virtually every politician in Britain will do
whatever they think they can get away with to prevent Brexit.

MM is always going on about the quality of people who voted out, he
should bear in mind that he's on the same side as virtually all
politicians (and media people, of course), a situation which would
certainly worry me, should it ever occur.
--
Joe
James Harris
2017-08-10 13:40:33 UTC
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Post by Joe
On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 10:14:13 +0100
Post by James Harris
You folks may already have twigged but it occurred to me last week
that when it comes to Brexit members of the establishment are talking
about two different types of transition.
I think of a transition as an intermediate state between two others.
We are here now. We want to get there. But it's too big a step to do
in one go or time is needed to prepare. We therefore need an
intermediate state or two in between to help the change to go
smoothly.
But quite a number of others see it differently. To them, a
transition essentially means an extension of the status quo. When
they talk of a transition on leaving the EU they really mean an
extension of existing arrangements.
Am I right? Have a listen out when various politicians and
journalists talk about a transitional period and see what you think
their meaning is.
Of course. Virtually every politician in Britain wanted us to stay in
the EU. It follows that virtually every politician in Britain will do
whatever they think they can get away with to prevent Brexit.
I don't quite agree with that. I believe some politicians who voted the
other way have accepted the result and are working hard to make it a
success. Yet there are also others who say they accept the decision but
when the surface is scratched it becomes extremely clear that they are
working to undermine it.
Post by Joe
MM is always going on about the quality of people who voted out, he
should bear in mind that he's on the same side as virtually all
politicians (and media people, of course), a situation which would
certainly worry me, should it ever occur.
--
James Harris
Ophelia
2017-08-07 13:33:57 UTC
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"James Harris" wrote in message news:om9ape$2fq$***@dont-email.me...

You folks may already have twigged but it occurred to me last week that
when it comes to Brexit members of the establishment are talking about
two different types of transition.

I think of a transition as an intermediate state between two others. We
are here now. We want to get there. But it's too big a step to do in one
go or time is needed to prepare. We therefore need an intermediate state
or two in between to help the change to go smoothly.

But quite a number of others see it differently. To them, a transition
essentially means an extension of the status quo. When they talk of a
transition on leaving the EU they really mean an extension of existing
arrangements.

Am I right? Have a listen out when various politicians and journalists
talk about a transitional period and see what you think their meaning is.

James Harris

==

I have been listening to them and wondering ... but you have made it clear.

I agree.
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
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