Discussion:
Is there anything Theresa May will not get wrong?
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James Harris
2017-11-30 08:45:42 UTC
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Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?

I ask because she began with this country having massive good will from
the new US president and his party. But she was first pressured into
criticising POTUS's actions when she did not need to do so. She has
since criticised him personally and he has now hit back, telling her
"Theresa, don’t focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic
Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing
just fine!"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/trump-shared-muslim-crimes-videos-tweeted-british-far-right/


Part of a pattern?

* Supported Remain (with an eye on leadership if Cameron lost?)
* Appointed Boris Johnson as FS (a sackable offence in itself!)
* Gave the go ahead to Hinckley C
* Threw away a majority by making a hash of the election campaign
* Is promising the EU everything it wants(*)
* Has told the EU it can have more time post March 2019
* Appears to be failing to prepare an alternative
* Now she is unnecessarily damaging a good relationship with our biggest
and most important trading partner. In times past, surely a British PM
would speak to POTUS privately rather than have a spokesman - a lackey -
tell the media that POTUS was wrong.

(*) The haggling is not over what Britain should concede but over what
the Brits will specify in writing. And some would say the way to deal
with the EU is to do exactly the opposite to what May has been doing.

Don't get me wrong. I see some good in her and have said so in the past.
But a PM needs to get at least most things correct.
--
James Harris
Dan S. MacAbre
2017-11-30 09:00:54 UTC
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Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
I ask because she began with this country having massive good will from
the new US president and his party. But she was first pressured into
criticising POTUS's actions when she did not need to do so. She has
since criticised him personally and he has now hit back, telling her
"Theresa, don’t focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic
Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing
just fine!"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/trump-shared-muslim-crimes-videos-tweeted-british-far-right/
Part of a pattern?
* Supported Remain (with an eye on leadership if Cameron lost?)
* Appointed Boris Johnson as FS (a sackable offence in itself!)
* Gave the go ahead to Hinckley C
* Threw away a majority by making a hash of the election campaign
* Is promising the EU everything it wants(*)
* Has told the EU it can have more time post March 2019
* Appears to be failing to prepare an alternative
* Now she is unnecessarily damaging a good relationship with our biggest
and most important trading partner. In times past, surely a British PM
would speak to POTUS privately rather than have a spokesman - a lackey -
tell the media that POTUS was wrong.
(*) The haggling is not over what Britain should concede but over what
the Brits will specify in writing. And some would say the way to deal
with the EU is to do exactly the opposite to what May has been doing.
Don't get me wrong. I see some good in her and have said so in the past.
But a PM needs to get at least most things correct.
She seems to be dancing to everyone else's tune. Severely weakened by
the election result, I assume. I'm guessing that Trump is doing what he
thinks is right, damn everyone else, and probably doesn't care if they
manage to kick him out tomorrow. I can't begin to guess what May is
thinking, but she certainly needs to grow a pair, as it were. I don't
suppose the UK establishments are more undermined than the US ones.
James Harris
2017-11-30 10:48:32 UTC
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Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
I ask because she began with this country having massive good will from
the new US president and his party. But she was first pressured into
criticising POTUS's actions when she did not need to do so. She has
since criticised him personally and he has now hit back, telling her
"Theresa, don’t focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic
Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing
just fine!"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/trump-shared-muslim-crimes-videos-tweeted-british-far-right/
Part of a pattern?
* Supported Remain (with an eye on leadership if Cameron lost?)
* Appointed Boris Johnson as FS (a sackable offence in itself!)
* Gave the go ahead to Hinckley C
* Threw away a majority by making a hash of the election campaign
* Is promising the EU everything it wants(*)
* Has told the EU it can have more time post March 2019
* Appears to be failing to prepare an alternative
* Now she is unnecessarily damaging a good relationship with our biggest
and most important trading partner. In times past, surely a British PM
would speak to POTUS privately rather than have a spokesman - a lackey -
tell the media that POTUS was wrong.
(*) The haggling is not over what Britain should concede but over what
the Brits will specify in writing. And some would say the way to deal
with the EU is to do exactly the opposite to what May has been doing.
Don't get me wrong. I see some good in her and have said so in the past.
But a PM needs to get at least most things correct.
She seems to be dancing to everyone else's tune. Severely weakened by
the election result, I assume. I'm guessing that Trump is doing what he
thinks is right,
I agree. And it's the choice of POTUS and America what actions they
take. It's not up to the British to tell them what to do or to moralise
with them.

It's worth noting what the videos were. They were NOT films put together
with a hate message. They were plain unedited videos of real events,
albeit that many have copied them without establishing what they show.
As such, I am dismayed that the media are focussing more on who sent
them than doing proper journalism to investigate whether they are
legitimate or not and reporting the real issues they include.

This, at least, is an examination of the facts:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-42165942.

The conspiracy of the media to hide events such as these shows an
appalling lack of journalistic integrity. They should, of course, report
in a balanced way, but to hide these stories is a failure on their part.
--
James Harris
Dan S. MacAbre
2017-11-30 11:00:37 UTC
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Post by James Harris
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
I ask because she began with this country having massive good will from
the new US president and his party. But she was first pressured into
criticising POTUS's actions when she did not need to do so. She has
since criticised him personally and he has now hit back, telling her
"Theresa, don’t focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic
Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing
just fine!"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/trump-shared-muslim-crimes-videos-tweeted-british-far-right/
Part of a pattern?
* Supported Remain (with an eye on leadership if Cameron lost?)
* Appointed Boris Johnson as FS (a sackable offence in itself!)
* Gave the go ahead to Hinckley C
* Threw away a majority by making a hash of the election campaign
* Is promising the EU everything it wants(*)
* Has told the EU it can have more time post March 2019
* Appears to be failing to prepare an alternative
* Now she is unnecessarily damaging a good relationship with our biggest
and most important trading partner. In times past, surely a British PM
would speak to POTUS privately rather than have a spokesman - a lackey -
tell the media that POTUS was wrong.
(*) The haggling is not over what Britain should concede but over what
the Brits will specify in writing. And some would say the way to deal
with the EU is to do exactly the opposite to what May has been doing.
Don't get me wrong. I see some good in her and have said so in the past.
But a PM needs to get at least most things correct.
She seems to be dancing to everyone else's tune. Severely weakened by
the election result, I assume. I'm guessing that Trump is doing what he
thinks is right,
I agree. And it's the choice of POTUS and America what actions they
take. It's not up to the British to tell them what to do or to moralise
with them.
It's worth noting what the videos were. They were NOT films put together
with a hate message. They were plain unedited videos of real events,
albeit that many have copied them without establishing what they show.
As such, I am dismayed that the media are focussing more on who sent
them than doing proper journalism to investigate whether they are
legitimate or not and reporting the real issues they include.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-42165942.
The conspiracy of the media to hide events such as these shows an
appalling lack of journalistic integrity. They should, of course, report
in a balanced way, but to hide these stories is a failure on their part.
Did you expect anything else? :-) This is just another exercise in
letting everyone know who the baddies are supposed to be. They
established Trump as the ultimate bogeyman (which is why he'll probably
save May the embarrassment of a visit, even though he's been reasonably
received elsewhere), so anyone whom he re-tweets must also be bad.
Actually, Guido reckons he got the tweet from Ann Coulter (whom he does
apparently follow), and not Britain First (of whom he'd probably not
previously heard). But I don't know much about either. And I stay well
away from bloody twitter. Just having to use the word 'tweet' so often
pisses me off :-)
finally ditched mimo
2017-11-30 09:28:53 UTC
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Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
I ask because she began with this country having massive good will from
the new US president and his party. But she was first pressured into
criticising POTUS's actions when she did not need to do so. She has
since criticised him personally and he has now hit back, telling her
"Theresa, don’t focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic
Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing
just fine!"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/trump-shared-muslim-crimes-videos-t
weeted-british-far-right/
Part of a pattern?
* Supported Remain (with an eye on leadership if Cameron lost?)
Don’t try and re-write history. Almost no one (not even Brexiters) believed
the referendum vote would go the way it did. Yes, we knew it would be close,
but a few % points in favour of Remain was the prediction.
Post by James Harris
* Appointed Boris Johnson as FS (a sackable offence in itself!)
* Gave the go ahead to Hinckley C
What is wrong with Hinckley C?, apart from the rather high guaranteed cost of
its output - but given inflation over the next ten years, will that really be
seen as expensive by 2027 when everyone wants to charge their electric car
overnight?
Post by James Harris
* Threw away a majority by making a hash of the election campaign
She wants a mandate, and it has become an obsession. Why do you think the
government are making statements containing Labour policy? (e.g. Re-opening
closed rail lines) - because they need to grab as many floating voters before
she calls another surprise election next year.
James Harris
2017-11-30 15:24:17 UTC
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Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
I ask because she began with this country having massive good will from
the new US president and his party. But she was first pressured into
criticising POTUS's actions when she did not need to do so. She has
since criticised him personally and he has now hit back, telling her
"Theresa, don’t focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic
Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing
just fine!"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/trump-shared-muslim-crimes-videos-t
weeted-british-far-right/
Part of a pattern?
* Supported Remain (with an eye on leadership if Cameron lost?)
Don’t try and re-write history. Almost no one (not even Brexiters) believed
the referendum vote would go the way it did. Yes, we knew it would be close,
but a few % points in favour of Remain was the prediction.
What, specifically, makes you think someone is rewriting history...?
Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by James Harris
* Appointed Boris Johnson as FS (a sackable offence in itself!)
* Gave the go ahead to Hinckley C
What is wrong with Hinckley C?, apart from the rather high guaranteed cost of
its output - but given inflation over the next ten years, will that really be
seen as expensive by 2027 when everyone wants to charge their electric car
overnight?
The strike price is not just stupidly high but is also index linked so
it will go up and up with inflation. And if EDF manage to build the
reactor they will be able to charge us and our descendants that price
for 35 years.
Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by James Harris
* Threw away a majority by making a hash of the election campaign
She wants a mandate, and it has become an obsession. Why do you think the
government are making statements containing Labour policy? (e.g. Re-opening
closed rail lines) - because they need to grab as many floating voters before
she calls another surprise election next year.
Seems unlikely to me.
--
James Harris
abelard
2017-11-30 10:29:30 UTC
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On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:45:42 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
I ask because she began with this country having massive good will from
the new US president and his party. But she was first pressured into
criticising POTUS's actions when she did not need to do so. She has
since criticised him personally and he has now hit back, telling her
"Theresa, don’t focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic
Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing
just fine!"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/trump-shared-muslim-crimes-videos-tweeted-british-far-right/
Part of a pattern?
* Supported Remain (with an eye on leadership if Cameron lost?)
* Appointed Boris Johnson as FS (a sackable offence in itself!)
* Gave the go ahead to Hinckley C
* Threw away a majority by making a hash of the election campaign
* Is promising the EU everything it wants(*)
* Has told the EU it can have more time post March 2019
* Appears to be failing to prepare an alternative
* Now she is unnecessarily damaging a good relationship with our biggest
and most important trading partner. In times past, surely a British PM
would speak to POTUS privately rather than have a spokesman - a lackey -
tell the media that POTUS was wrong.
(*) The haggling is not over what Britain should concede but over what
the Brits will specify in writing. And some would say the way to deal
with the EU is to do exactly the opposite to what May has been doing.
Don't get me wrong. I see some good in her and have said so in the past.
But a PM needs to get at least most things correct.
you're getting hysterical my boy...

contain yourself...she has *done* nothing yet...

much of politics is appeasing the mob and the snowflakes...

all we need do with europe is talk out the clock...

with what they do...ignore utterly what they say

never ever trust a reptile/'reporter'
--
www.abelard.org
Dan S. MacAbre
2017-11-30 10:40:05 UTC
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Post by abelard
On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 08:45:42 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
I ask because she began with this country having massive good will from
the new US president and his party. But she was first pressured into
criticising POTUS's actions when she did not need to do so. She has
since criticised him personally and he has now hit back, telling her
"Theresa, don’t focus on me, focus on the destructive Radical Islamic
Terrorism that is taking place within the United Kingdom. We are doing
just fine!"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/29/trump-shared-muslim-crimes-videos-tweeted-british-far-right/
Part of a pattern?
* Supported Remain (with an eye on leadership if Cameron lost?)
* Appointed Boris Johnson as FS (a sackable offence in itself!)
* Gave the go ahead to Hinckley C
* Threw away a majority by making a hash of the election campaign
* Is promising the EU everything it wants(*)
* Has told the EU it can have more time post March 2019
* Appears to be failing to prepare an alternative
* Now she is unnecessarily damaging a good relationship with our biggest
and most important trading partner. In times past, surely a British PM
would speak to POTUS privately rather than have a spokesman - a lackey -
tell the media that POTUS was wrong.
(*) The haggling is not over what Britain should concede but over what
the Brits will specify in writing. And some would say the way to deal
with the EU is to do exactly the opposite to what May has been doing.
Don't get me wrong. I see some good in her and have said so in the past.
But a PM needs to get at least most things correct.
you're getting hysterical my boy...
contain yourself...she has *done* nothing yet...
much of politics is appeasing the mob and the snowflakes...
all we need do with europe is talk out the clock...
Some variation of Parkinson's Law applies :-)
Post by abelard
with what they do...ignore utterly what they say
never ever trust a reptile/'reporter'
m***@btopenworld.com
2017-11-30 11:40:22 UTC
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Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
I'm beginning to wonder.

Her most costly mistake was that election she chose to call and then not to fight.

It perhaps is just as well that the Labour party is at least luke warm towards Brexit itself. It certainly has no desire to inherit the present situation. But after Brexit watch out! I still think that this is when she will go.

I find her government's approach towards Bexit lacking real purpose beyond that blessed FTA that will imv only come after Frexit is an accomplished fact.
WTO arrangements will suffice in the meantime even if the meantime is several years long. It's time for a little hardball the government has been only too ready to play to the EU fiddle. It's time we brought a few fiddles of our own into the orchestra.

We could start by announcing unequivocally that the UK will leave the EU on March 29th 2019 without any transition or implementation period which will only serve to prolong the agony.

An agreed FT deal with a non EU country to take effect on March 30th 2017 would work wonders to morale at home and would reonforce our determination to succeed.

Members of the cabinet who lack the stomach for such adventures should be replaced with ones that don't. If the government falls then so be it. A few bench polishers will lose their jobs and about time too.

Constructive opposition will be better than government acquiescence in this situation and I fancy Corbyn will not relish the reins of government in this situation. Mind you, he and his bunch of comrades might not perceive reality as I do.

Finally if Theresa is to be replaced and she *will* (note tense) need replacing get in Rees-Mogg. He is a bit green but can talk the right language and he strikes me as a fast learner.

We are in it for the long game and the country is crying "Get on with it!"
abelard
2017-11-30 11:50:01 UTC
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Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
I'm beginning to wonder.
Her most costly mistake was that election she chose to call and then not to fight.
It perhaps is just as well that the Labour party is at least luke warm towards Brexit itself. It certainly has no desire to inherit the present situation. But after Brexit watch out! I still think that this is when she will go.
I find her government's approach towards Bexit lacking real purpose beyond that blessed FTA that will imv only come after Frexit is an accomplished fact.
!
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
WTO arrangements will suffice in the meantime even if the meantime is several years long. It's time for a little hardball the government has been only too ready to play to the EU fiddle. It's time we brought a few fiddles of our own into the orchestra.
why alienate the remainers? they also have votes!
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
We could start by announcing unequivocally that the UK will leave the EU on March 29th 2019 without any transition or implementation period which will only serve to prolong the agony.
An agreed FT deal with a non EU country to take effect on March 30th 2017 would work wonders to morale at home and would reonforce our determination to succeed.
Members of the cabinet who lack the stomach for such adventures should be replaced with ones that don't. If the government falls then so be it. A few bench polishers will lose their jobs and about time too.
Constructive opposition will be better than government acquiescence in this situation and I fancy Corbyn will not relish the reins of government in this situation. Mind you, he and his bunch of comrades might not perceive reality as I do.
the tory party is the natural gov't of the uk...
the fascist 'new' labour party is the temporary opposition until and
unless a real party emerges(eg liberals)...
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Finally if Theresa is to be replaced and she *will* (note tense) need replacing get in Rees-Mogg. He is a bit green but can talk the right language and he strikes me as a fast learner.
We are in it for the long game and the country is crying "Get on with it!"
the peasants are always impatient to see more fodder in
the trough...
gov't often has to reassure them and mitigate their fears

a long game requires patience above all
--
www.abelard.org
James Hammerton
2017-11-30 17:37:46 UTC
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Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
I'm beginning to wonder.
Her most costly mistake was that election she chose to call and then not to fight.
It perhaps is just as well that the Labour party is at least luke warm towards Brexit itself. It certainly has no desire to inherit the present situation. But after Brexit watch out! I still think that this is when she will go.
I find her government's approach towards Bexit lacking real purpose beyond that blessed FTA that will imv only come after Frexit is an accomplished fact.
Frexit? A typo I presume, unless you really expect France to quit the
EU...

Regards,

James
--
James Hammerton
http://jhammerton.wordpress.com
http://www.magnacartaplus.com/
Mark, Devon
2017-11-30 23:09:53 UTC
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I think she's made some catastrophic errors of judgement. However there is no doubt any longer that Brexit is the stupidest poisoned chalice that any PM could inherit. Brexit contains at it's very core the most incompatible contradictions and conflicts. The UK will dilute its advantages and strengths through Brexit. The only question is by how much.
Ian Jackson
2017-12-01 09:21:39 UTC
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Post by Mark, Devon
I think she's made some catastrophic errors of judgement. However there
is no doubt any longer that Brexit is the stupidest poisoned chalice
that any PM could inherit.
She didn't 'inherit' it. She knew perfectly well that the chalice was
poisoned, but she grasped it eagerly with both hands, and drank deeply
of its contents.
Post by Mark, Devon
Brexit contains at it's very core the most incompatible contradictions
and conflicts.

Indeed. They only now seem to be realising the insoluble problem of the
Irish border.
Post by Mark, Devon
The UK will dilute its advantages and strengths through Brexit. The
only question is by how much.
Quite.
--
Ian
abelard
2017-12-01 09:38:04 UTC
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On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:21:39 +0000, Ian Jackson
first, throw away the toys from your prams
Post by Mark, Devon
Post by Mark, Devon
Brexit contains at it's very core the most incompatible contradictions
and conflicts.
Indeed. They only now seem to be realising the insoluble problem of the
Irish border.
what 'conflicts' and 'contradictions'? i doubt you could even
define 'contradiction'

the irish border is not britain's problem...britain does not
desire any such border...are you hoping or suggesting
that the eussr comintern will build one?
and if so, what for exactly?
Post by Mark, Devon
Post by Mark, Devon
The UK will dilute its advantages and strengths through Brexit. The
only question is by how much.
Quite.
which 'advantages' and 'strengths' exactly?


you two will never get out of infant's class if you go on that way
--
www.abelard.org
finally ditched mimo
2017-12-06 10:42:42 UTC
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Post by abelard
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:21:39 +0000, Ian Jackson
first, throw away the toys from your prams
Post by Mark, Devon
Post by Mark, Devon
Brexit contains at it's very core the most incompatible contradictions
and conflicts.
Indeed. They only now seem to be realising the insoluble problem of the
Irish border.
what 'conflicts' and 'contradictions'? i doubt you could even
define 'contradiction'
No you do not...
Post by abelard
the irish border is not britain's problem...britain does not
desire any such border...are you hoping or suggesting
that the eussr comintern will build one?
and if so, what for exactly?
Post by Mark, Devon
Post by Mark, Devon
The UK will dilute its advantages and strengths through Brexit. The
only question is by how much.
Quite.
which 'advantages' and 'strengths' exactly?
you two will never get out of infant's class if you go on that way
abelard
2017-12-06 16:59:19 UTC
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On Wed, 06 Dec 2017 10:42:42 +0000, finally ditched mimo
Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by abelard
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:21:39 +0000, Ian Jackson
first, throw away the toys from your prams
Post by Mark, Devon
Post by Mark, Devon
Brexit contains at it's very core the most incompatible contradictions
and conflicts.
Indeed. They only now seem to be realising the insoluble problem of the
Irish border.
what 'conflicts' and 'contradictions'? i doubt you could even
define 'contradiction'
No you do not...
oh yes i do...
Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by abelard
the irish border is not britain's problem...britain does not
desire any such border...are you hoping or suggesting
that the eussr comintern will build one?
and if so, what for exactly?
Post by Mark, Devon
Post by Mark, Devon
The UK will dilute its advantages and strengths through Brexit. The
only question is by how much.
Quite.
which 'advantages' and 'strengths' exactly?
you two will never get out of infant's class if you go on that way
--
www.abelard.org
James Hammerton
2017-12-06 18:06:49 UTC
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Post by abelard
On Wed, 06 Dec 2017 10:42:42 +0000, finally ditched mimo
Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by abelard
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:21:39 +0000, Ian Jackson
first, throw away the toys from your prams
Post by Mark, Devon
Post by Mark, Devon
Brexit contains at it's very core the most incompatible contradictions
and conflicts.
Indeed. They only now seem to be realising the insoluble problem of the
Irish border.
what 'conflicts' and 'contradictions'? i doubt you could even
define 'contradiction'
No you do not...
oh yes i do...
He's behind you!

Sorry, thought I was at a panto for a second...

Regards,

James
--
James Hammerton
http://jhammerton.wordpress.com
http://www.magnacartaplus.com/
abelard
2017-12-06 18:46:10 UTC
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On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 18:06:49 +0000, James Hammerton
Post by James Hammerton
Post by abelard
On Wed, 06 Dec 2017 10:42:42 +0000, finally ditched mimo
Post by finally ditched mimo
Post by abelard
On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 09:21:39 +0000, Ian Jackson
first, throw away the toys from your prams
Post by Mark, Devon
Post by Mark, Devon
Brexit contains at it's very core the most incompatible contradictions
and conflicts.
Indeed. They only now seem to be realising the insoluble problem of the
Irish border.
what 'conflicts' and 'contradictions'? i doubt you could even
define 'contradiction'
No you do not...
oh yes i do...
He's behind you!
Sorry, thought I was at a panto for a second...
me two

i surmised that going this route would not work....either!

http://www.abelard.org/ethics.htm#excluded_middle
‘Opposites’ do not exist in empiric reality.
The greater (>) the extent of ‘fuzziness’of a category,
the more impossible becomes the task of setting up an ‘opposite’.
--
www.abelard.org
m***@btopenworld.com
2017-12-01 15:06:07 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Indeed. They only now seem to be realising the insoluble problem of the
Irish border.
What's insoluble about it?

There is no problem that is insoluble given there requisite goodwill. Recognise that and and you will begin to appreciate the real problem that there is no good will existing at present between the EU and UK.

In fact the solution is already in operation. Not all goods that cross the NI border from South to North are tariff free. Exceptions include alcoholic beverages, tobacco and motor fuel. All countries in the EU have the right to set their own internal duties for these items in particular. These goods re dearer in NI then in the Republic for that reason.

Clearly there is scope here for cross border smuggling so how do HMR&C collect these dues?

Easily. They use a trusted carrier system. There is no stopping and checking of trucks that transport Guinness to NI from the brewery in Dublin The distrbution in NI. Instead hauliers notify HMRC electronically as to the quantity of Guiness on a particular truck. If HMR&C consider any check necessary (rarely) then they will arrange for it to be undertaken at the destination. Similarly small hauliers must register their loads an pay any duties in advance. Anyone found in NI with a car boot or van full of undeclared cigarettes is in trouble.

One of the perks of living close to the border is that one can choose which side of the border you fill your car or van with fuel. Such perks are small beer and so can be tolerated. However, don't be caught with a trailer tank full of undeclared fuel. It will cost you dear if you do.

Could anything be simpler? Why can't such schemes be extended to include the wider range of goods? Answer nothing! Provided the good will is there. But t isn't. The EU is determined that we shall be punished. If we must be punished then we must endure our punishment whilst at the same time looking for means of retaliation. Never lose sight of the fact that more empty trucks/containers travel from the UK into the EU than travel in the opposite direction. There is much scope for retaliation.

There would seem to be no recognisence of the fact that it is for the UK and the UK alone that is to decide show to collect revenues due to ts own government. If the UK authorities choose method similar to those I outline here then that is no business of the EU. If they choose to rely on more cumbersome methods of collecting their revenues then that is their preogative but such installations will be on their side of the border. In will then be Irish Customs officers who disrupt movement across the EU/UK border.

Nothing to do with us Paddy!
Ian Jackson
2017-12-01 15:42:35 UTC
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Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Ian Jackson
Indeed. They only now seem to be realising the insoluble problem of the
Irish border.
What's insoluble about it?
There is no problem that is insoluble given there requisite goodwill.
Recognise that and and you will begin to appreciate the real problem
that there is no good will existing at present between the EU and UK.
In fact the solution is already in operation. Not all goods that cross
the NI border from South to North are tariff free. Exceptions include
alcoholic beverages, tobacco and motor fuel. All countries in the EU
have the right to set their own internal duties for these items in
particular. These goods re dearer in NI then in the Republic for that
reason.
Clearly there is scope here for cross border smuggling so how do HMR&C collect these dues?
Easily. They use a trusted carrier system.
You really don't have a clue about goods transport.

An awful lot of goods are not carried by 'trusted carriers' (or any sort
of carrier). When William Fitzpatrick wants to deliver his hand-crafted
Londonderry widgets to his cousin, Patrick Fitzwilliam, who lives in
Donegal (a mile across the River Foyle on the 'Derry' side), he isn't
going to use a carrier. He's going to sling them in the back of his van,
and take them himself. When he gets there and drops them off, he'll have
a cup of tea, then head back home.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
There is no stopping and checking of trucks that transport Guinness to
NI from the brewery in Dublin The distrbution in NI. Instead hauliers
notify HMRC electronically as to the quantity of Guiness on a
particular truck. If HMR&C consider any check necessary (rarely) then
they will arrange for it to be undertaken at the destination. Similarly
small hauliers must register their loads an pay any duties in advance.
Anyone found in NI with a car boot or van full of undeclared cigarettes
is in trouble.
One of the perks of living close to the border is that one can choose
which side of the border you fill your car or van with fuel. Such perks
are small beer and so can be tolerated. However, don't be caught with a
trailer tank full of undeclared fuel. It will cost you dear if you do.
Could anything be simpler? Why can't such schemes be extended to
include the wider range of goods? Answer nothing! Provided the good
will is there. But t isn't. The EU is determined that we shall be
punished. If we must be punished then we must endure our punishment
whilst at the same time looking for means of retaliation. Never lose
sight of the fact that more empty trucks/containers travel from the UK
into the EU than travel in the opposite direction. There is much scope
for retaliation.
There would seem to be no recognisence of the fact that it is for the
UK and the UK alone that is to decide show to collect revenues due to
ts own government. If the UK authorities choose method similar to those
I outline here then that is no business of the EU. If they choose to
rely on more cumbersome methods of collecting their revenues then that
is their preogative but such installations will be on their side of the
border. In will then be Irish Customs officers who disrupt movement
across the EU/UK border.
Nothing to do with us Paddy!
Please get real. It won't be up to the RoI customs. While goods (and
people) might be allowed to cross without any checks from the RoI to NI,
"to be sure to be sure" the RoI will have to impose any checks required
by the EU.
--
Ian
m***@btopenworld.com
2017-12-02 09:34:41 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
There would seem to be no recognisence of the fact that it is for the
UK and the UK alone that is to decide show to collect revenues due to
ts own government. If the UK authorities choose method similar to those
I outline here then that is no business of the EU. If they choose to
rely on more cumbersome methods of collecting their revenues then that
is their preogative but such installations will be on their side of the
border. In will then be Irish Customs officers who disrupt movement
across the EU/UK border.
Nothing to do with us Paddy!
Please get real. It won't be up to the RoI customs. While goods (and
people) might be allowed to cross without any checks from the RoI to NI,
"to be sure to be sure" the RoI will have to impose any checks required
by the EU.
Do you thing you trying to tell us something new or has 'white an man' stopped his fortnightly trip across another EU border to Calais? Further to that there are scores of small harbours and Marinas dotted along the South coast that have no Customs facility whatsoever into which contraband may be
smuggled. There are dozens of similar flying clubs with small grass strips.

50% of the narcotics traded in the UK are smuggled in from abroad.

It can be a very lucrative earner. Wherever you get a customs border you are going to get it just as you can always find a tradesman who will split the VAT right down the middle with you. Don't run away with the idea that tax avoidance is the preserve of the super rich except that this is downright tax evasion.

However, the downside to the smuggler is that if he is caught the penalties are draconian unlike an extra bottle of malt in your baggage. If you are caught smuggling on this kind of scale your complete consignment will be seized along with any vehicle you use for the purpose. That should curtail your activity for a while.

The fact is that most goods that cross borders, do so legally. Large operators would simply not take the risk of losing their 'trusted' status so lightly.

WE were always given to believe the EU was a community of free and sovereign nations. We are finding out the truth now aren't we? A curse on those who led us in the first place. The question of withdrawal has to be faced up to regardless of any cost which need not be prohibitive.

You miss the point about the RoI/UK border in NI being an EU border. The anxiety centres on the notion that any change in border arrangements might disturb the working of the Good Friday agreement to which both the UK and RoI governments were signatories. There is no EU signature on the agreement.

Whatever arrangements for border control exist on the RoI side of the border are no business of the UK. Likewise whatever happens on the UK side of the border is no business of the RoI or the EU. However, if arrangements on the RoI/UK do bring about disruption of the GFA then it is important that the finger of condemnation be pointed South rather than North. Th Irish republicans themselves can explain to the nationalists in NI as to why the border is not open.
James Harris
2017-12-01 16:51:11 UTC
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Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
...
Post by James Harris
* Now she is unnecessarily damaging a good relationship with our biggest
and most important trading partner. In times past, surely a British PM
would speak to POTUS privately rather than have a spokesman - a lackey -
tell the media that POTUS was wrong.
I thought that might wrankle. Trump is thin skinned. And now we read
this: US diplomats have cancelled President Trump’s unofficial visit to
Britain in January.... British Prime Minister Theresa May has chastised
Trump for the tweets, saying it was “wrong” to have shared the videos.

https://nypost.com/2017/11/30/us-cancels-trumps-visit-to-uk-after-anti-muslim-tweet-backlash/


There was no need /whatsoever/ for British politicians to try to impose
their morals on a the leader of an ally and tell him what he should and
should not retweet. Nor is there a need for Britain to try to censor the
kind of video that Trump retweeted. And there was certainly no need for
them to reprimand him through the media. If May had had a serious
concern she should have used the telephone only. A simple statement to
the media that private discussions had been had would have been sufficient.

Again, is there anything she will not get wrong?
--
James Harris
abelard
2017-12-01 17:10:55 UTC
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On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:51:11 +0000, James Harris
Post by James Harris
Post by James Harris
Anyone else thinking that May is not up to the job?
...
Post by James Harris
* Now she is unnecessarily damaging a good relationship with our biggest
and most important trading partner. In times past, surely a British PM
would speak to POTUS privately rather than have a spokesman - a lackey -
tell the media that POTUS was wrong.
I thought that might wrankle. Trump is thin skinned.
much more likely that trump regards such behaviour as
opportunities to get his programme out
Post by James Harris
And now we read
this: US diplomats have cancelled President Trump’s unofficial visit to
Britain in January.... British Prime Minister Theresa May has chastised
Trump for the tweets, saying it was “wrong” to have shared the videos.
https://nypost.com/2017/11/30/us-cancels-trumps-visit-to-uk-after-anti-muslim-tweet-backlash/
There was no need /whatsoever/ for British politicians to try to impose
their morals on a the leader of an ally and tell him what he should and
should not retweet. Nor is there a need for Britain to try to censor the
kind of video that Trump retweeted. And there was certainly no need for
them to reprimand him through the media. If May had had a serious
concern she should have used the telephone only. A simple statement to
the media that private discussions had been had would have been sufficient.
Again, is there anything she will not get wrong?
but how is it wrong if it garners her more votes from the idiocracy...

both trump and may gain from this faked-up hysteria
--
www.abelard.org
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