Discussion:
socialism...bernard shaw version...1906
(too old to reply)
abelard
2017-08-09 18:49:48 UTC
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Raw Message
from major barbara...her daddy is undershaft...she a
major in the sally ann...britomart is mummy

from major barbara, act 3, 1906
###


"BARBARA [revolted] You saved my soul! What do you mean?

UNDERSHAFT. I fed you and clothed you and housed you. I took care that
you should have money enough to live handsomely--more than enough; so
that you could be wasteful, careless, generous. That saved your soul
from the seven deadly sins.

BARBARA [bewildered] The seven deadly sins!

UNDERSHAFT. Yes, the deadly seven. [Counting on his fingers] Food,
clothing, firing, rent, taxes, respectability and children. Nothing
can lift those seven millstones from Man's neck but money; and the
spirit cannot soar until the millstones are lifted. I lifted them from
your spirit. I enabled Barbara to become Major Barbara; and I saved
her from the crime of poverty.

CUSINS. Do you call poverty a crime?

UNDERSHAFT. The worst of crimes. All the other crimes are virtues
beside it: all the other dishonors are chivalry itself by comparison.
Poverty blights whole cities; spreads horrible pestilences; strikes
dead the very souls of all who come within sight, sound or smell of
it. What you call crime is nothing: a murder here and a theft there, a
blow now and a curse then: what do they matter? they are only the
accidents and illnesses of life: there are not fifty genuine
professional criminals in London. But there are millions of poor
people, abject people, dirty people, ill fed, ill clothed people. They
poison us morally and physically: they kill the happiness of society:
they force us to do away with our own liberties and to organize
unnatural cruelties for fear they should rise against us and drag us
down into their abyss. Only fools fear crime: we all fear poverty.
Pah! [turning on Barbara] you talk of your half-saved ruffian in West
Ham: you accuse me of dragging his soul back to perdition. Well, bring
him to me here; and I will drag his soul back again to salvation for
you. Not by words and dreams; but by thirty-eight shillings a week, a
sound house in a handsome street, and a permanent job. In three weeks
he will have a fancy waistcoat; in three months a tall hat and a
chapel sitting; before the end of the year he will shake hands with a
duchess at a Primrose League meeting, and join the Conservative Party.

BARBARA. And will he be the better for that?

UNDERSHAFT. You know he will. Don't be a hypocrite, Barbara. He will
be better fed, better housed, better clothed, better behaved; and his
children will be pounds heavier and bigger. That will be better than
an American cloth mattress in a shelter, chopping firewood, eating
bread and treacle, and being forced to kneel down from time to time to
thank heaven for it: knee drill, I think you call it. It is cheap work
converting starving men with a Bible in one hand and a slice of bread
in the other. I will undertake to convert West Ham to Mahometanism on
the same terms. Try your hand on my men: their souls are hungry
because their bodies are full.

BARBARA. And leave the east end to starve?

UNDERSHAFT [his energetic tone dropping into one of bitter and
brooding remembrance] I was an east ender. I moralized and starved
until one day I swore that I would be a fullfed free man at all
costs--that nothing should stop me except a bullet, neither reason nor
morals nor the lives of other men. I said "Thou shalt starve ere I
starve"; and with that word I became free and great. I was a dangerous
man until I had my will: now I am a useful, beneficent, kindly person.
That is the history of most self-made millionaires, I fancy. When it
is the history of every Englishman we shall have an England worth
living in.

LADY BRITOMART. Stop making speeches, Andrew. This is not the place
for them.

UNDERSHAFT [punctured] My dear: I have no other means of conveying my
ideas.

LADY BRITOMART. Your ideas are nonsense. You got oil because you were
selfish and unscrupulous.

UNDERSHAFT. Not at all. I had the strongest scruples about poverty and
starvation. Your moralists are quite unscrupulous about both: they
make virtues of them. I had rather be a thief than a pauper. I had
rather be a murderer than a slave. I don't want to be either; but if
you force the alternative on me, then, by Heaven, I'll choose the
braver and more moral one. I hate poverty and slavery worse than any
other crimes whatsoever. And let me tell you this. Poverty and slavery
have stood up for centuries to your sermons and leading articles: they
will not stand up to my machine guns. Don't preach at them: don't
reason with them. Kill them.

BARBARA. Killing. Is that your remedy for everything?

UNDERSHAFT. It is the final test of conviction, the only lever strong
enough to overturn a social system,..."

###
"BARBARA. That is why I have no class, Dolly: I come straight out of
the heart of the whole people. If I were middle-class I should turn my
back on my father's business; and we should both live in an artistic
drawingroom, with you reading the reviews in one corner, and I in the
other at the piano, playing Schumann: both very superior persons, and
neither of us a bit of use. Sooner than that, I would sweep out the
guncotton shed, or be one of Bodger's barmaids. Do you know what would
have happened if you had refused papa's offer?"
###

" LADY BRITOMART. Barbara, I positively forbid you to listen to your
father's abominable wickedness. And you, Adolphus, ought to know
better than to go about saying that wrong things are true. What does
it matter whether they are true if they are wrong?

UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are
true?"
--
www.abelard.org
saracene
2017-08-09 18:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
from major barbara...her daddy is undershaft...she a
major in the sally ann...britomart is mummy
from major barbara, act 3, 1906
###
"BARBARA [revolted] You saved my soul! What do you mean?
UNDERSHAFT. I fed you and clothed you and housed you. I took care that
you should have money enough to live handsomely--more than enough; so
that you could be wasteful, careless, generous. That saved your soul
from the seven deadly sins.
BARBARA [bewildered] The seven deadly sins!
UNDERSHAFT. Yes, the deadly seven. [Counting on his fingers] Food,
clothing, firing, rent, taxes, respectability and children. Nothing
can lift those seven millstones from Man's neck but money; and the
spirit cannot soar until the millstones are lifted. I lifted them from
your spirit. I enabled Barbara to become Major Barbara; and I saved
her from the crime of poverty.
CUSINS. Do you call poverty a crime?
UNDERSHAFT. The worst of crimes. All the other crimes are virtues
beside it: all the other dishonors are chivalry itself by comparison.
Poverty blights whole cities; spreads horrible pestilences; strikes
dead the very souls of all who come within sight, sound or smell of
it. What you call crime is nothing: a murder here and a theft there, a
blow now and a curse then: what do they matter? they are only the
accidents and illnesses of life: there are not fifty genuine
professional criminals in London. But there are millions of poor
people, abject people, dirty people, ill fed, ill clothed people. They
they force us to do away with our own liberties and to organize
unnatural cruelties for fear they should rise against us and drag us
down into their abyss. Only fools fear crime: we all fear poverty.
Pah! [turning on Barbara] you talk of your half-saved ruffian in West
Ham: you accuse me of dragging his soul back to perdition. Well, bring
him to me here; and I will drag his soul back again to salvation for
you. Not by words and dreams; but by thirty-eight shillings a week, a
sound house in a handsome street, and a permanent job. In three weeks
he will have a fancy waistcoat; in three months a tall hat and a
chapel sitting; before the end of the year he will shake hands with a
duchess at a Primrose League meeting, and join the Conservative Party.
BARBARA. And will he be the better for that?
UNDERSHAFT. You know he will. Don't be a hypocrite, Barbara. He will
be better fed, better housed, better clothed, better behaved; and his
children will be pounds heavier and bigger. That will be better than
an American cloth mattress in a shelter, chopping firewood, eating
bread and treacle, and being forced to kneel down from time to time to
thank heaven for it: knee drill, I think you call it. It is cheap work
converting starving men with a Bible in one hand and a slice of bread
in the other. I will undertake to convert West Ham to Mahometanism on
the same terms. Try your hand on my men: their souls are hungry
because their bodies are full.
BARBARA. And leave the east end to starve?
UNDERSHAFT [his energetic tone dropping into one of bitter and
brooding remembrance] I was an east ender. I moralized and starved
until one day I swore that I would be a fullfed free man at all
costs--that nothing should stop me except a bullet, neither reason nor
morals nor the lives of other men. I said "Thou shalt starve ere I
starve"; and with that word I became free and great. I was a dangerous
man until I had my will: now I am a useful, beneficent, kindly person.
That is the history of most self-made millionaires, I fancy. When it
is the history of every Englishman we shall have an England worth
living in.
LADY BRITOMART. Stop making speeches, Andrew. This is not the place
for them.
UNDERSHAFT [punctured] My dear: I have no other means of conveying my
ideas.
LADY BRITOMART. Your ideas are nonsense. You got oil because you were
selfish and unscrupulous.
UNDERSHAFT. Not at all. I had the strongest scruples about poverty and
starvation. Your moralists are quite unscrupulous about both: they
make virtues of them. I had rather be a thief than a pauper. I had
rather be a murderer than a slave. I don't want to be either; but if
you force the alternative on me, then, by Heaven, I'll choose the
braver and more moral one. I hate poverty and slavery worse than any
other crimes whatsoever. And let me tell you this. Poverty and slavery
have stood up for centuries to your sermons and leading articles: they
will not stand up to my machine guns. Don't preach at them: don't
reason with them. Kill them.
BARBARA. Killing. Is that your remedy for everything?
UNDERSHAFT. It is the final test of conviction, the only lever strong
enough to overturn a social system,..."
###
"BARBARA. That is why I have no class, Dolly: I come straight out of
the heart of the whole people. If I were middle-class I should turn my
back on my father's business; and we should both live in an artistic
drawingroom, with you reading the reviews in one corner, and I in the
other at the piano, playing Schumann: both very superior persons, and
neither of us a bit of use. Sooner than that, I would sweep out the
guncotton shed, or be one of Bodger's barmaids. Do you know what would
have happened if you had refused papa's offer?"
###
" LADY BRITOMART. Barbara, I positively forbid you to listen to your
father's abominable wickedness. And you, Adolphus, ought to know
better than to go about saying that wrong things are true. What does
it matter whether they are true if they are wrong?
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are
true?"
--
www.abelard.org
It was on radio 4 last year, But I think I heard it on radio 3 in 1998.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07fm10d
abelard
2017-08-09 19:02:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
from major barbara...her daddy is undershaft...she a
major in the sally ann...britomart is mummy
from major barbara, act 3, 1906
###
"BARBARA [revolted] You saved my soul! What do you mean?
UNDERSHAFT. I fed you and clothed you and housed you. I took care that
you should have money enough to live handsomely--more than enough; so
that you could be wasteful, careless, generous. That saved your soul
from the seven deadly sins.
BARBARA [bewildered] The seven deadly sins!
UNDERSHAFT. Yes, the deadly seven. [Counting on his fingers] Food,
clothing, firing, rent, taxes, respectability and children. Nothing
can lift those seven millstones from Man's neck but money; and the
spirit cannot soar until the millstones are lifted. I lifted them from
your spirit. I enabled Barbara to become Major Barbara; and I saved
her from the crime of poverty.
CUSINS. Do you call poverty a crime?
UNDERSHAFT. The worst of crimes. All the other crimes are virtues
beside it: all the other dishonors are chivalry itself by comparison.
Poverty blights whole cities; spreads horrible pestilences; strikes
dead the very souls of all who come within sight, sound or smell of
it. What you call crime is nothing: a murder here and a theft there, a
blow now and a curse then: what do they matter? they are only the
accidents and illnesses of life: there are not fifty genuine
professional criminals in London. But there are millions of poor
people, abject people, dirty people, ill fed, ill clothed people. They
they force us to do away with our own liberties and to organize
unnatural cruelties for fear they should rise against us and drag us
down into their abyss. Only fools fear crime: we all fear poverty.
Pah! [turning on Barbara] you talk of your half-saved ruffian in West
Ham: you accuse me of dragging his soul back to perdition. Well, bring
him to me here; and I will drag his soul back again to salvation for
you. Not by words and dreams; but by thirty-eight shillings a week, a
sound house in a handsome street, and a permanent job. In three weeks
he will have a fancy waistcoat; in three months a tall hat and a
chapel sitting; before the end of the year he will shake hands with a
duchess at a Primrose League meeting, and join the Conservative Party.
BARBARA. And will he be the better for that?
UNDERSHAFT. You know he will. Don't be a hypocrite, Barbara. He will
be better fed, better housed, better clothed, better behaved; and his
children will be pounds heavier and bigger. That will be better than
an American cloth mattress in a shelter, chopping firewood, eating
bread and treacle, and being forced to kneel down from time to time to
thank heaven for it: knee drill, I think you call it. It is cheap work
converting starving men with a Bible in one hand and a slice of bread
in the other. I will undertake to convert West Ham to Mahometanism on
the same terms. Try your hand on my men: their souls are hungry
because their bodies are full.
BARBARA. And leave the east end to starve?
UNDERSHAFT [his energetic tone dropping into one of bitter and
brooding remembrance] I was an east ender. I moralized and starved
until one day I swore that I would be a fullfed free man at all
costs--that nothing should stop me except a bullet, neither reason nor
morals nor the lives of other men. I said "Thou shalt starve ere I
starve"; and with that word I became free and great. I was a dangerous
man until I had my will: now I am a useful, beneficent, kindly person.
That is the history of most self-made millionaires, I fancy. When it
is the history of every Englishman we shall have an England worth
living in.
LADY BRITOMART. Stop making speeches, Andrew. This is not the place
for them.
UNDERSHAFT [punctured] My dear: I have no other means of conveying my
ideas.
LADY BRITOMART. Your ideas are nonsense. You got oil because you were
selfish and unscrupulous.
UNDERSHAFT. Not at all. I had the strongest scruples about poverty and
starvation. Your moralists are quite unscrupulous about both: they
make virtues of them. I had rather be a thief than a pauper. I had
rather be a murderer than a slave. I don't want to be either; but if
you force the alternative on me, then, by Heaven, I'll choose the
braver and more moral one. I hate poverty and slavery worse than any
other crimes whatsoever. And let me tell you this. Poverty and slavery
have stood up for centuries to your sermons and leading articles: they
will not stand up to my machine guns. Don't preach at them: don't
reason with them. Kill them.
BARBARA. Killing. Is that your remedy for everything?
UNDERSHAFT. It is the final test of conviction, the only lever strong
enough to overturn a social system,..."
###
"BARBARA. That is why I have no class, Dolly: I come straight out of
the heart of the whole people. If I were middle-class I should turn my
back on my father's business; and we should both live in an artistic
drawingroom, with you reading the reviews in one corner, and I in the
other at the piano, playing Schumann: both very superior persons, and
neither of us a bit of use. Sooner than that, I would sweep out the
guncotton shed, or be one of Bodger's barmaids. Do you know what would
have happened if you had refused papa's offer?"
###
" LADY BRITOMART. Barbara, I positively forbid you to listen to your
father's abominable wickedness. And you, Adolphus, ought to know
better than to go about saying that wrong things are true. What does
it matter whether they are true if they are wrong?
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are
true?"
It was on radio 4 last year, But I think I heard it on radio 3 in 1998.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07fm10d
i found it necessary to read 'john bull's other island', 'major
barbara' came as a bonus...and as i hadn't read it before
i just read it...
i'm an addictive reader...i'll even read bus tickets!

i've read over 20 of his plays complete with his intros and
tails...mostly i think he's boring and trite

'saint joan' and 'androcles' are good laughs...as i recall from
a very long ago...
--
www.abelard.org
saracene
2017-08-09 19:08:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
from major barbara...her daddy is undershaft...she a
major in the sally ann...britomart is mummy
from major barbara, act 3, 1906
###
"BARBARA [revolted] You saved my soul! What do you mean?
UNDERSHAFT. I fed you and clothed you and housed you. I took care that
you should have money enough to live handsomely--more than enough; so
that you could be wasteful, careless, generous. That saved your soul
from the seven deadly sins.
BARBARA [bewildered] The seven deadly sins!
UNDERSHAFT. Yes, the deadly seven. [Counting on his fingers] Food,
clothing, firing, rent, taxes, respectability and children. Nothing
can lift those seven millstones from Man's neck but money; and the
spirit cannot soar until the millstones are lifted. I lifted them from
your spirit. I enabled Barbara to become Major Barbara; and I saved
her from the crime of poverty.
CUSINS. Do you call poverty a crime?
UNDERSHAFT. The worst of crimes. All the other crimes are virtues
beside it: all the other dishonors are chivalry itself by comparison.
Poverty blights whole cities; spreads horrible pestilences; strikes
dead the very souls of all who come within sight, sound or smell of
it. What you call crime is nothing: a murder here and a theft there, a
blow now and a curse then: what do they matter? they are only the
accidents and illnesses of life: there are not fifty genuine
professional criminals in London. But there are millions of poor
people, abject people, dirty people, ill fed, ill clothed people. They
they force us to do away with our own liberties and to organize
unnatural cruelties for fear they should rise against us and drag us
down into their abyss. Only fools fear crime: we all fear poverty.
Pah! [turning on Barbara] you talk of your half-saved ruffian in West
Ham: you accuse me of dragging his soul back to perdition. Well, bring
him to me here; and I will drag his soul back again to salvation for
you. Not by words and dreams; but by thirty-eight shillings a week, a
sound house in a handsome street, and a permanent job. In three weeks
he will have a fancy waistcoat; in three months a tall hat and a
chapel sitting; before the end of the year he will shake hands with a
duchess at a Primrose League meeting, and join the Conservative Party.
BARBARA. And will he be the better for that?
UNDERSHAFT. You know he will. Don't be a hypocrite, Barbara. He will
be better fed, better housed, better clothed, better behaved; and his
children will be pounds heavier and bigger. That will be better than
an American cloth mattress in a shelter, chopping firewood, eating
bread and treacle, and being forced to kneel down from time to time to
thank heaven for it: knee drill, I think you call it. It is cheap work
converting starving men with a Bible in one hand and a slice of bread
in the other. I will undertake to convert West Ham to Mahometanism on
the same terms. Try your hand on my men: their souls are hungry
because their bodies are full.
BARBARA. And leave the east end to starve?
UNDERSHAFT [his energetic tone dropping into one of bitter and
brooding remembrance] I was an east ender. I moralized and starved
until one day I swore that I would be a fullfed free man at all
costs--that nothing should stop me except a bullet, neither reason nor
morals nor the lives of other men. I said "Thou shalt starve ere I
starve"; and with that word I became free and great. I was a dangerous
man until I had my will: now I am a useful, beneficent, kindly person.
That is the history of most self-made millionaires, I fancy. When it
is the history of every Englishman we shall have an England worth
living in.
LADY BRITOMART. Stop making speeches, Andrew. This is not the place
for them.
UNDERSHAFT [punctured] My dear: I have no other means of conveying my
ideas.
LADY BRITOMART. Your ideas are nonsense. You got oil because you were
selfish and unscrupulous.
UNDERSHAFT. Not at all. I had the strongest scruples about poverty and
starvation. Your moralists are quite unscrupulous about both: they
make virtues of them. I had rather be a thief than a pauper. I had
rather be a murderer than a slave. I don't want to be either; but if
you force the alternative on me, then, by Heaven, I'll choose the
braver and more moral one. I hate poverty and slavery worse than any
other crimes whatsoever. And let me tell you this. Poverty and slavery
have stood up for centuries to your sermons and leading articles: they
will not stand up to my machine guns. Don't preach at them: don't
reason with them. Kill them.
BARBARA. Killing. Is that your remedy for everything?
UNDERSHAFT. It is the final test of conviction, the only lever strong
enough to overturn a social system,..."
###
"BARBARA. That is why I have no class, Dolly: I come straight out of
the heart of the whole people. If I were middle-class I should turn my
back on my father's business; and we should both live in an artistic
drawingroom, with you reading the reviews in one corner, and I in the
other at the piano, playing Schumann: both very superior persons, and
neither of us a bit of use. Sooner than that, I would sweep out the
guncotton shed, or be one of Bodger's barmaids. Do you know what would
have happened if you had refused papa's offer?"
###
" LADY BRITOMART. Barbara, I positively forbid you to listen to your
father's abominable wickedness. And you, Adolphus, ought to know
better than to go about saying that wrong things are true. What does
it matter whether they are true if they are wrong?
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are
true?"
It was on radio 4 last year, But I think I heard it on radio 3 in 1998.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07fm10d
i found it necessary to read 'john bull's other island', 'major
barbara' came as a bonus...and as i hadn't read it before
i just read it...
i'm an addictive reader...i'll even read bus tickets!
i've read over 20 of his plays complete with his intros and
tails...mostly i think he's boring and trite
Yes he is. Have you read Man and Superman, Back to Methuselah and Mrs Warren's Profession?
Post by abelard
'saint joan' and 'androcles'
I bought the Shaw alphabet edition of that when it came out. I didn't read it in that version.
Post by abelard
are good laughs...as i recall from
a very long ago...
--
www.abelard.org
abelard
2017-08-09 19:17:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
from major barbara...her daddy is undershaft...she a
major in the sally ann...britomart is mummy
from major barbara, act 3, 1906
###
"BARBARA [revolted] You saved my soul! What do you mean?
UNDERSHAFT. I fed you and clothed you and housed you. I took care that
you should have money enough to live handsomely--more than enough; so
that you could be wasteful, careless, generous. That saved your soul
from the seven deadly sins.
BARBARA [bewildered] The seven deadly sins!
UNDERSHAFT. Yes, the deadly seven. [Counting on his fingers] Food,
clothing, firing, rent, taxes, respectability and children. Nothing
can lift those seven millstones from Man's neck but money; and the
spirit cannot soar until the millstones are lifted. I lifted them from
your spirit. I enabled Barbara to become Major Barbara; and I saved
her from the crime of poverty.
CUSINS. Do you call poverty a crime?
UNDERSHAFT. The worst of crimes. All the other crimes are virtues
beside it: all the other dishonors are chivalry itself by comparison.
Poverty blights whole cities; spreads horrible pestilences; strikes
dead the very souls of all who come within sight, sound or smell of
it. What you call crime is nothing: a murder here and a theft there, a
blow now and a curse then: what do they matter? they are only the
accidents and illnesses of life: there are not fifty genuine
professional criminals in London. But there are millions of poor
people, abject people, dirty people, ill fed, ill clothed people. They
they force us to do away with our own liberties and to organize
unnatural cruelties for fear they should rise against us and drag us
down into their abyss. Only fools fear crime: we all fear poverty.
Pah! [turning on Barbara] you talk of your half-saved ruffian in West
Ham: you accuse me of dragging his soul back to perdition. Well, bring
him to me here; and I will drag his soul back again to salvation for
you. Not by words and dreams; but by thirty-eight shillings a week, a
sound house in a handsome street, and a permanent job. In three weeks
he will have a fancy waistcoat; in three months a tall hat and a
chapel sitting; before the end of the year he will shake hands with a
duchess at a Primrose League meeting, and join the Conservative Party.
BARBARA. And will he be the better for that?
UNDERSHAFT. You know he will. Don't be a hypocrite, Barbara. He will
be better fed, better housed, better clothed, better behaved; and his
children will be pounds heavier and bigger. That will be better than
an American cloth mattress in a shelter, chopping firewood, eating
bread and treacle, and being forced to kneel down from time to time to
thank heaven for it: knee drill, I think you call it. It is cheap work
converting starving men with a Bible in one hand and a slice of bread
in the other. I will undertake to convert West Ham to Mahometanism on
the same terms. Try your hand on my men: their souls are hungry
because their bodies are full.
BARBARA. And leave the east end to starve?
UNDERSHAFT [his energetic tone dropping into one of bitter and
brooding remembrance] I was an east ender. I moralized and starved
until one day I swore that I would be a fullfed free man at all
costs--that nothing should stop me except a bullet, neither reason nor
morals nor the lives of other men. I said "Thou shalt starve ere I
starve"; and with that word I became free and great. I was a dangerous
man until I had my will: now I am a useful, beneficent, kindly person.
That is the history of most self-made millionaires, I fancy. When it
is the history of every Englishman we shall have an England worth
living in.
LADY BRITOMART. Stop making speeches, Andrew. This is not the place
for them.
UNDERSHAFT [punctured] My dear: I have no other means of conveying my
ideas.
LADY BRITOMART. Your ideas are nonsense. You got oil because you were
selfish and unscrupulous.
UNDERSHAFT. Not at all. I had the strongest scruples about poverty and
starvation. Your moralists are quite unscrupulous about both: they
make virtues of them. I had rather be a thief than a pauper. I had
rather be a murderer than a slave. I don't want to be either; but if
you force the alternative on me, then, by Heaven, I'll choose the
braver and more moral one. I hate poverty and slavery worse than any
other crimes whatsoever. And let me tell you this. Poverty and slavery
have stood up for centuries to your sermons and leading articles: they
will not stand up to my machine guns. Don't preach at them: don't
reason with them. Kill them.
BARBARA. Killing. Is that your remedy for everything?
UNDERSHAFT. It is the final test of conviction, the only lever strong
enough to overturn a social system,..."
###
"BARBARA. That is why I have no class, Dolly: I come straight out of
the heart of the whole people. If I were middle-class I should turn my
back on my father's business; and we should both live in an artistic
drawingroom, with you reading the reviews in one corner, and I in the
other at the piano, playing Schumann: both very superior persons, and
neither of us a bit of use. Sooner than that, I would sweep out the
guncotton shed, or be one of Bodger's barmaids. Do you know what would
have happened if you had refused papa's offer?"
###
" LADY BRITOMART. Barbara, I positively forbid you to listen to your
father's abominable wickedness. And you, Adolphus, ought to know
better than to go about saying that wrong things are true. What does
it matter whether they are true if they are wrong?
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are
true?"
It was on radio 4 last year, But I think I heard it on radio 3 in 1998.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07fm10d
i found it necessary to read 'john bull's other island', 'major
barbara' came as a bonus...and as i hadn't read it before
i just read it...
i'm an addictive reader...i'll even read bus tickets!
i've read over 20 of his plays complete with his intros and
tails...mostly i think he's boring and trite
Yes he is. Have you read Man and Superman, Back to Methuselah and Mrs Warren's Profession?
first 2 yes...the other i don't think so, but am unsure
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
'saint joan' and 'androcles'
I bought the Shaw alphabet edition of that when it came out. I didn't read it in that version.
i don't know what that is
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
are good laughs...as i recall from
a very long ago...
ps, i much prefer to read most plays than to listen or watch...
--
www.abelard.org
saracene
2017-08-09 19:21:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
from major barbara...her daddy is undershaft...she a
major in the sally ann...britomart is mummy
from major barbara, act 3, 1906
###
"BARBARA [revolted] You saved my soul! What do you mean?
UNDERSHAFT. I fed you and clothed you and housed you. I took care that
you should have money enough to live handsomely--more than enough; so
that you could be wasteful, careless, generous. That saved your soul
from the seven deadly sins.
BARBARA [bewildered] The seven deadly sins!
UNDERSHAFT. Yes, the deadly seven. [Counting on his fingers] Food,
clothing, firing, rent, taxes, respectability and children. Nothing
can lift those seven millstones from Man's neck but money; and the
spirit cannot soar until the millstones are lifted. I lifted them from
your spirit. I enabled Barbara to become Major Barbara; and I saved
her from the crime of poverty.
CUSINS. Do you call poverty a crime?
UNDERSHAFT. The worst of crimes. All the other crimes are virtues
beside it: all the other dishonors are chivalry itself by comparison.
Poverty blights whole cities; spreads horrible pestilences; strikes
dead the very souls of all who come within sight, sound or smell of
it. What you call crime is nothing: a murder here and a theft there, a
blow now and a curse then: what do they matter? they are only the
accidents and illnesses of life: there are not fifty genuine
professional criminals in London. But there are millions of poor
people, abject people, dirty people, ill fed, ill clothed people. They
they force us to do away with our own liberties and to organize
unnatural cruelties for fear they should rise against us and drag us
down into their abyss. Only fools fear crime: we all fear poverty.
Pah! [turning on Barbara] you talk of your half-saved ruffian in West
Ham: you accuse me of dragging his soul back to perdition. Well, bring
him to me here; and I will drag his soul back again to salvation for
you. Not by words and dreams; but by thirty-eight shillings a week, a
sound house in a handsome street, and a permanent job. In three weeks
he will have a fancy waistcoat; in three months a tall hat and a
chapel sitting; before the end of the year he will shake hands with a
duchess at a Primrose League meeting, and join the Conservative Party.
BARBARA. And will he be the better for that?
UNDERSHAFT. You know he will. Don't be a hypocrite, Barbara. He will
be better fed, better housed, better clothed, better behaved; and his
children will be pounds heavier and bigger. That will be better than
an American cloth mattress in a shelter, chopping firewood, eating
bread and treacle, and being forced to kneel down from time to time to
thank heaven for it: knee drill, I think you call it. It is cheap work
converting starving men with a Bible in one hand and a slice of bread
in the other. I will undertake to convert West Ham to Mahometanism on
the same terms. Try your hand on my men: their souls are hungry
because their bodies are full.
BARBARA. And leave the east end to starve?
UNDERSHAFT [his energetic tone dropping into one of bitter and
brooding remembrance] I was an east ender. I moralized and starved
until one day I swore that I would be a fullfed free man at all
costs--that nothing should stop me except a bullet, neither reason nor
morals nor the lives of other men. I said "Thou shalt starve ere I
starve"; and with that word I became free and great. I was a dangerous
man until I had my will: now I am a useful, beneficent, kindly person.
That is the history of most self-made millionaires, I fancy. When it
is the history of every Englishman we shall have an England worth
living in.
LADY BRITOMART. Stop making speeches, Andrew. This is not the place
for them.
UNDERSHAFT [punctured] My dear: I have no other means of conveying my
ideas.
LADY BRITOMART. Your ideas are nonsense. You got oil because you were
selfish and unscrupulous.
UNDERSHAFT. Not at all. I had the strongest scruples about poverty and
starvation. Your moralists are quite unscrupulous about both: they
make virtues of them. I had rather be a thief than a pauper. I had
rather be a murderer than a slave. I don't want to be either; but if
you force the alternative on me, then, by Heaven, I'll choose the
braver and more moral one. I hate poverty and slavery worse than any
other crimes whatsoever. And let me tell you this. Poverty and slavery
have stood up for centuries to your sermons and leading articles: they
will not stand up to my machine guns. Don't preach at them: don't
reason with them. Kill them.
BARBARA. Killing. Is that your remedy for everything?
UNDERSHAFT. It is the final test of conviction, the only lever strong
enough to overturn a social system,..."
###
"BARBARA. That is why I have no class, Dolly: I come straight out of
the heart of the whole people. If I were middle-class I should turn my
back on my father's business; and we should both live in an artistic
drawingroom, with you reading the reviews in one corner, and I in the
other at the piano, playing Schumann: both very superior persons, and
neither of us a bit of use. Sooner than that, I would sweep out the
guncotton shed, or be one of Bodger's barmaids. Do you know what would
have happened if you had refused papa's offer?"
###
" LADY BRITOMART. Barbara, I positively forbid you to listen to your
father's abominable wickedness. And you, Adolphus, ought to know
better than to go about saying that wrong things are true. What does
it matter whether they are true if they are wrong?
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are
true?"
It was on radio 4 last year, But I think I heard it on radio 3 in 1998.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07fm10d
i found it necessary to read 'john bull's other island', 'major
barbara' came as a bonus...and as i hadn't read it before
i just read it...
i'm an addictive reader...i'll even read bus tickets!
i've read over 20 of his plays complete with his intros and
tails...mostly i think he's boring and trite
Yes he is. Have you read Man and Superman, Back to Methuselah and Mrs Warren's Profession?
first 2 yes...the other i don't think so, but am unsure
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
'saint joan' and 'androcles'
I bought the Shaw alphabet edition of that when it came out. I didn't read it in that version.
i don't know what that is
Androcles and the Lion. An old fable renovated by Bernard Shaw. With a parallel text in Shaw's Alphabet to be read in conjunction showing ints economies in writing and reading. The Shaw Alphabet Edition of Androcles and the Lion. Penguin 1961
Post by abelard
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
are good laughs...as i recall from
a very long ago...
ps, i much prefer to read most plays than to listen or watch...
--
www.abelard.org
saracene
2017-08-09 19:23:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
from major barbara...her daddy is undershaft...she a
major in the sally ann...britomart is mummy
from major barbara, act 3, 1906
###
"BARBARA [revolted] You saved my soul! What do you mean?
UNDERSHAFT. I fed you and clothed you and housed you. I took care that
you should have money enough to live handsomely--more than enough; so
that you could be wasteful, careless, generous. That saved your soul
from the seven deadly sins.
BARBARA [bewildered] The seven deadly sins!
UNDERSHAFT. Yes, the deadly seven. [Counting on his fingers] Food,
clothing, firing, rent, taxes, respectability and children. Nothing
can lift those seven millstones from Man's neck but money; and the
spirit cannot soar until the millstones are lifted. I lifted them from
your spirit. I enabled Barbara to become Major Barbara; and I saved
her from the crime of poverty.
CUSINS. Do you call poverty a crime?
UNDERSHAFT. The worst of crimes. All the other crimes are virtues
beside it: all the other dishonors are chivalry itself by comparison.
Poverty blights whole cities; spreads horrible pestilences; strikes
dead the very souls of all who come within sight, sound or smell of
it. What you call crime is nothing: a murder here and a theft there, a
blow now and a curse then: what do they matter? they are only the
accidents and illnesses of life: there are not fifty genuine
professional criminals in London. But there are millions of poor
people, abject people, dirty people, ill fed, ill clothed people. They
they force us to do away with our own liberties and to organize
unnatural cruelties for fear they should rise against us and drag us
down into their abyss. Only fools fear crime: we all fear poverty.
Pah! [turning on Barbara] you talk of your half-saved ruffian in West
Ham: you accuse me of dragging his soul back to perdition. Well, bring
him to me here; and I will drag his soul back again to salvation for
you. Not by words and dreams; but by thirty-eight shillings a week, a
sound house in a handsome street, and a permanent job. In three weeks
he will have a fancy waistcoat; in three months a tall hat and a
chapel sitting; before the end of the year he will shake hands with a
duchess at a Primrose League meeting, and join the Conservative Party.
BARBARA. And will he be the better for that?
UNDERSHAFT. You know he will. Don't be a hypocrite, Barbara. He will
be better fed, better housed, better clothed, better behaved; and his
children will be pounds heavier and bigger. That will be better than
an American cloth mattress in a shelter, chopping firewood, eating
bread and treacle, and being forced to kneel down from time to time to
thank heaven for it: knee drill, I think you call it. It is cheap work
converting starving men with a Bible in one hand and a slice of bread
in the other. I will undertake to convert West Ham to Mahometanism on
the same terms. Try your hand on my men: their souls are hungry
because their bodies are full.
BARBARA. And leave the east end to starve?
UNDERSHAFT [his energetic tone dropping into one of bitter and
brooding remembrance] I was an east ender. I moralized and starved
until one day I swore that I would be a fullfed free man at all
costs--that nothing should stop me except a bullet, neither reason nor
morals nor the lives of other men. I said "Thou shalt starve ere I
starve"; and with that word I became free and great. I was a dangerous
man until I had my will: now I am a useful, beneficent, kindly person.
That is the history of most self-made millionaires, I fancy. When it
is the history of every Englishman we shall have an England worth
living in.
LADY BRITOMART. Stop making speeches, Andrew. This is not the place
for them.
UNDERSHAFT [punctured] My dear: I have no other means of conveying my
ideas.
LADY BRITOMART. Your ideas are nonsense. You got oil because you were
selfish and unscrupulous.
UNDERSHAFT. Not at all. I had the strongest scruples about poverty and
starvation. Your moralists are quite unscrupulous about both: they
make virtues of them. I had rather be a thief than a pauper. I had
rather be a murderer than a slave. I don't want to be either; but if
you force the alternative on me, then, by Heaven, I'll choose the
braver and more moral one. I hate poverty and slavery worse than any
other crimes whatsoever. And let me tell you this. Poverty and slavery
have stood up for centuries to your sermons and leading articles: they
will not stand up to my machine guns. Don't preach at them: don't
reason with them. Kill them.
BARBARA. Killing. Is that your remedy for everything?
UNDERSHAFT. It is the final test of conviction, the only lever strong
enough to overturn a social system,..."
###
"BARBARA. That is why I have no class, Dolly: I come straight out of
the heart of the whole people. If I were middle-class I should turn my
back on my father's business; and we should both live in an artistic
drawingroom, with you reading the reviews in one corner, and I in the
other at the piano, playing Schumann: both very superior persons, and
neither of us a bit of use. Sooner than that, I would sweep out the
guncotton shed, or be one of Bodger's barmaids. Do you know what would
have happened if you had refused papa's offer?"
###
" LADY BRITOMART. Barbara, I positively forbid you to listen to your
father's abominable wickedness. And you, Adolphus, ought to know
better than to go about saying that wrong things are true. What does
it matter whether they are true if they are wrong?
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are
true?"
It was on radio 4 last year, But I think I heard it on radio 3 in 1998.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07fm10d
i found it necessary to read 'john bull's other island', 'major
barbara' came as a bonus...and as i hadn't read it before
i just read it...
i'm an addictive reader...i'll even read bus tickets!
i've read over 20 of his plays complete with his intros and
tails...mostly i think he's boring and trite
Yes he is. Have you read Man and Superman, Back to Methuselah and Mrs Warren's Profession?
first 2 yes...the other i don't think so, but am unsure
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
'saint joan' and 'androcles'
I bought the Shaw alphabet edition of that when it came out. I didn't read it in that version.
i don't know what that is
Androcles and the Lion. An old fable renovated by Bernard Shaw. With a parallel text in Shaw's Alphabet to be read in conjunction showing ints economies in writing and reading. The Shaw Alphabet Edition of Androcles and the Lion. Penguin 1961
Post by abelard
Post by saracene
Post by abelard
are good laughs...as i recall from
a very long ago...
ps, i much prefer to read most plays than to listen or watch...
Shaw had served from 1926 to 1939 on the BBC's Advisory Committee on Spoken English, which included several exponents of phonetic writing. He also knew Henry Sweet, creator of Current Shorthand (and a prototype for the character of Henry Higgins), although Shaw himself used the shorthand system of Isaac Pitman. All of his interest in spelling and alphabet reform was made clear in Shaw's will of June 1950, in which provision was made for (Isaac) James Pitman, with a grant in aid from the Public Trustee, to establish a Shaw Alphabet. Following Shaw's death in November 1950, and after some legal dispute, the Trustee announced a worldwide competition to design such an alphabet, with the aim of producing a system which would be an economical way of writing and of printing the English language.

A contest for the design of the new alphabet was won by four people, including Ronald Kingsley Read. Read was then appointed to amalgamate the four designs to produce the new alphabet.

Due to the contestation of Shaw's will, the trust charged with developing the new alphabet could only afford to publish one book: a version of Shaw's play Androcles and the Lion, in a bi-alphabetic edition with both conventional and Shavian spellings. (1962 Penguin Books, London). Copies were sent to major libraries in English-speaking countries. In 2013 an edition of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, transcribed into Shavian by Thomas Thurman, was published.[2]
abelard
2017-08-09 20:08:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by saracene
Shaw had served from 1926 to 1939 on the BBC's Advisory Committee on Spoken English, which included several exponents of phonetic writing. He also knew Henry Sweet, creator of Current Shorthand (and a prototype for the character of Henry Higgins), although Shaw himself used the shorthand system of Isaac Pitman. All of his interest in spelling and alphabet reform was made clear in Shaw's will of June 1950, in which provision was made for (Isaac) James Pitman, with a grant in aid from the Public Trustee, to establish a Shaw Alphabet. Following Shaw's death in November 1950, and after some legal dispute, the Trustee announced a worldwide competition to design such an alphabet, with the aim of producing a system which would be an economical way of writing and of printing the English language.
A contest for the design of the new alphabet was won by four people, including Ronald Kingsley Read. Read was then appointed to amalgamate the four designs to produce the new alphabet.
Due to the contestation of Shaw's will, the trust charged with developing the new alphabet could only afford to publish one book: a version of Shaw's play Androcles and the Lion, in a bi-alphabetic edition with both conventional and Shavian spellings. (1962 Penguin Books, London). Copies were sent to major libraries in English-speaking countries. In 2013 an edition of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, transcribed into Shavian by Thomas Thurman, was published.[2]
a vague recall surfaces...

a common fetish of the time...

are you aware of 'intial teaching alphabet'...ita....

they actually printed books

http://www.abelard.org/teaching_reading_with_phonics.php
The English language, as stated, is not phonically standardised.
Around the early 1960s, an attempt was made to standardise English,
called I-T-A (Initial Teaching Alphabet), using forty-four letters
(phonemes), with the objective that once the child was moving along
under such a scheme, the transfer to standard orthography would
easier.

I-T-A may have been a good idea had it become the universal print
medium, although that would make millions of extant books rather
difficult for the next generation! See, for example, the Han-gul
alphabet, forced on the people of Korea by King Sejong in 1446, which
is acclaimed amongst linguists for its excellent and scientific
design. However, I-T-A in its intended use suffers from similar, but
lesser, problems to look-say.

Learning to read is one of the earliest serious intellectual skills
most younger children must acquire; I’m all for a good bit of brain
exercise in pursuit of developing intelligence. Look-say merely turns
the reading task into a pointless and cumbersome memory exercise,
whereas phonics requires far more in the way of analytic skills.
For more on this subject, and some technical detail see the
supplementary page, Reading test and related information.
--
www.abelard.org
saracene
2017-08-09 21:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
Post by saracene
Shaw had served from 1926 to 1939 on the BBC's Advisory Committee on Spoken English, which included several exponents of phonetic writing. He also knew Henry Sweet, creator of Current Shorthand (and a prototype for the character of Henry Higgins), although Shaw himself used the shorthand system of Isaac Pitman. All of his interest in spelling and alphabet reform was made clear in Shaw's will of June 1950, in which provision was made for (Isaac) James Pitman, with a grant in aid from the Public Trustee, to establish a Shaw Alphabet. Following Shaw's death in November 1950, and after some legal dispute, the Trustee announced a worldwide competition to design such an alphabet, with the aim of producing a system which would be an economical way of writing and of printing the English language.
A contest for the design of the new alphabet was won by four people, including Ronald Kingsley Read. Read was then appointed to amalgamate the four designs to produce the new alphabet.
Due to the contestation of Shaw's will, the trust charged with developing the new alphabet could only afford to publish one book: a version of Shaw's play Androcles and the Lion, in a bi-alphabetic edition with both conventional and Shavian spellings. (1962 Penguin Books, London). Copies were sent to major libraries in English-speaking countries. In 2013 an edition of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, transcribed into Shavian by Thomas Thurman, was published.[2]
a vague recall surfaces...
a common fetish of the time...
are you aware of 'intial teaching alphabet'...ita....
My eldest son was a victim of that.
Post by abelard
they actually printed books
http://www.abelard.org/teaching_reading_with_phonics.php
The English language, as stated, is not phonically standardised.
Around the early 1960s, an attempt was made to standardise English,
called I-T-A (Initial Teaching Alphabet), using forty-four letters
(phonemes), with the objective that once the child was moving along
under such a scheme, the transfer to standard orthography would
easier.
I-T-A may have been a good idea had it become the universal print
medium, although that would make millions of extant books rather
difficult for the next generation! See, for example, the Han-gul
alphabet, forced on the people of Korea by King Sejong in 1446, which
is acclaimed amongst linguists for its excellent and scientific
design. However, I-T-A in its intended use suffers from similar, but
lesser, problems to look-say.
Learning to read is one of the earliest serious intellectual skills
most younger children must acquire; I’m all for a good bit of brain
exercise in pursuit of developing intelligence. Look-say merely turns
the reading task into a pointless and cumbersome memory exercise,
whereas phonics requires far more in the way of analytic skills.
For more on this subject, and some technical detail see the
supplementary page, Reading test and related information.
--
I thought of it as a teachers' conspiracy to shut parents out of the process of teaching children to read.
abelard
2017-08-09 19:28:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by saracene
Androcles and the Lion. An old fable renovated by Bernard Shaw. With a parallel text in Shaw's Alphabet to be read in conjunction showing ints economies in writing and reading. The Shaw Alphabet Edition of Androcles and the Lion. Penguin 1961
i've just checked...i've got 3 copies...god knows why...
2 from 1966 and 1 from 1973...

nothing about alphabets
--
www.abelard.org
Byker
2017-08-09 19:08:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are true?"
"Under Socialism, you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly
fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If
it were discovered that you had not character and industry enough to be
worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner;
but whilst you were permitted to live, you would have to live well."

-- George Bernard Shaw, The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and
Capitalism, New York: NY, Brentano (1928) p. 670.
abelard
2017-08-09 19:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Byker
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are true?"
"Under Socialism, you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly
fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If
it were discovered that you had not character and industry enough to be
worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner;
but whilst you were permitted to live, you would have to live well."
-- George Bernard Shaw, The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and
Capitalism, New York: NY, Brentano (1928) p. 670.
yes, the theme of killing those he doesn't like is repetitive in
shaw...

the impression is often that he believes he is being 'daring'
or 'clever'

but of course the inclination to killing for eugenic purposes
was an eager enthusiasm of these early socialists


they were confused by malthus and darwin...the confusion is termed as
'scientism', and common among today's hopeful 'rebels' and
snowflakes
but with differing 'modern' fashions
--
www.abelard.org
Byker
2017-08-10 03:26:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
yes, the theme of killing those he doesn't like is repetitive in
shaw...
the impression is often that he believes he is being 'daring'
or 'clever'
but of course the inclination to killing for eugenic purposes
was an eager enthusiasm of these early socialists
they were confused by malthus and darwin...the confusion is termed as
'scientism', and common among today's hopeful 'rebels' and
snowflakes
but with differing 'modern' fashions
Socialism sounded oh, SO good -- until it was put into practice:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soviet_Story

Trailer:


Feature:

abelard
2017-08-10 10:08:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Byker
Post by abelard
yes, the theme of killing those he doesn't like is repetitive in
shaw...
the impression is often that he believes he is being 'daring'
or 'clever'
but of course the inclination to killing for eugenic purposes
was an eager enthusiasm of these early socialists
they were confused by malthus and darwin...the confusion is termed as
'scientism', and common among today's hopeful 'rebels' and
snowflakes
but with differing 'modern' fashions
at least they had some small excuse in those long gone days...

there is no possible excuse in the modern world...
Post by Byker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soviet_Story
Trailer: http://youtu.be/EYuRKy0HKK8
Feature: http://youtu.be/La81qM-vvU8
--
www.abelard.org
Byker
2017-08-10 19:48:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
at least they had some small excuse in those long gone days...
there is no possible excuse in the modern world...
"The trouble is with socialism, which resembles a form of mental illness
more than it does a philosophy. Socialists get bees in their bonnets. And
because they chronically lack any critical faculty to examine and evaluate
their ideas, and because they are pathologically unwilling to consider the
opinions of others, and most of all, because socialism is a mindset that
regards the individual — and his rights — as insignificant, compared to
whatever the socialist believes the group needs, terrible, terrible things
happen when socialists acquire power."

-- L. Neil Smith, in "Cambodian Road Trip," (15 March 2009).
http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2009/tle510-20090315-02.html

#BeamMeUpScotty
2017-08-10 18:48:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are true?"
"Under Socialism, you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly
fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If
it were discovered that you had not character and industry enough to be
worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner;
but whilst you were permitted to live, you would have to live well."
-- George Bernard Shaw, The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and
Capitalism, New York: NY, Brentano (1928) p. 670.
yes, the theme of killing those he doesn't like is repetitive in
shaw...
the impression is often that he believes he is being 'daring'
or 'clever'
but of course the inclination to killing for eugenic purposes
was an eager enthusiasm of these early socialists
they were confused by malthus and darwin...the confusion is termed as
'scientism', and common among today's hopeful 'rebels' and
snowflakes
but with differing 'modern' fashions
It sounds a bit like SLAVERY, albeit a form of benevolent slavery for
those that like it.... it's slavery none the less.

George Bernard Shaw was a British "Fabian Society" Socialist.

The equivalent to a U.S. Progressive today.

He was also into eugenics.
--
That's Karma
SeaSnake
2017-08-10 18:55:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are true?"
"Under Socialism, you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly
fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If
it were discovered that you had not character and industry enough to be
worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner;
but whilst you were permitted to live, you would have to live well."
-- George Bernard Shaw, The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and
Capitalism, New York: NY, Brentano (1928) p. 670.
yes, the theme of killing those he doesn't like is repetitive in
shaw...
the impression is often that he believes he is being 'daring'
or 'clever'
but of course the inclination to killing for eugenic purposes
was an eager enthusiasm of these early socialists
they were confused by malthus and darwin...the confusion is termed as
'scientism', and common among today's hopeful 'rebels' and
snowflakes
but with differing 'modern' fashions
It sounds a bit like SLAVERY, albeit a form of benevolent slavery for
those that like it.... it's slavery none the less.
George Bernard Shaw was a British "Fabian Society" Socialist.
The equivalent to a U.S. Progressive today.
He was also into eugenics.
Ah eugenics, the darling of the US university system pre-WW2 and a long
time favorite of our proggies like Sanger.

The bloodthirsty libitards have since moved on to exterminating babies.
abelard
2017-08-10 19:02:42 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by SeaSnake
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are true?"
"Under Socialism, you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly
fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If
it were discovered that you had not character and industry enough to be
worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner;
but whilst you were permitted to live, you would have to live well."
-- George Bernard Shaw, The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and
Capitalism, New York: NY, Brentano (1928) p. 670.
yes, the theme of killing those he doesn't like is repetitive in
shaw...
the impression is often that he believes he is being 'daring'
or 'clever'
but of course the inclination to killing for eugenic purposes
was an eager enthusiasm of these early socialists
they were confused by malthus and darwin...the confusion is termed as
'scientism', and common among today's hopeful 'rebels' and
snowflakes
but with differing 'modern' fashions
It sounds a bit like SLAVERY, albeit a form of benevolent slavery for
those that like it.... it's slavery none the less.
George Bernard Shaw was a British "Fabian Society" Socialist.
The equivalent to a U.S. Progressive today.
He was also into eugenics.
Ah eugenics, the darling of the US university system pre-WW2 and a long
time favorite of our proggies like Sanger.
The bloodthirsty libitards have since moved on to exterminating babies.
same policies...different entry points
--
www.abelard.org
SeaSnake
2017-08-10 19:05:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by abelard
Post by SeaSnake
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are true?"
"Under Socialism, you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly
fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If
it were discovered that you had not character and industry enough to be
worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner;
but whilst you were permitted to live, you would have to live well."
-- George Bernard Shaw, The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and
Capitalism, New York: NY, Brentano (1928) p. 670.
yes, the theme of killing those he doesn't like is repetitive in
shaw...
the impression is often that he believes he is being 'daring'
or 'clever'
but of course the inclination to killing for eugenic purposes
was an eager enthusiasm of these early socialists
they were confused by malthus and darwin...the confusion is termed as
'scientism', and common among today's hopeful 'rebels' and
snowflakes
but with differing 'modern' fashions
It sounds a bit like SLAVERY, albeit a form of benevolent slavery for
those that like it.... it's slavery none the less.
George Bernard Shaw was a British "Fabian Society" Socialist.
The equivalent to a U.S. Progressive today.
He was also into eugenics.
Ah eugenics, the darling of the US university system pre-WW2 and a long
time favorite of our proggies like Sanger.
The bloodthirsty libitards have since moved on to exterminating babies.
same policies...different entry points
Precisely!

These so-called "humanists" are in essence haters who seek only to
slaughter and thin the herd by their arcane formulae and wicked personal
preferences.
Byker
2017-08-10 19:48:05 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
George Bernard Shaw was a British "Fabian Society" Socialist.
The equivalent to a U.S. Progressive today.
"Socialism must have a dictatorship, it will not work without it."
-- Mao Zedong
Post by #BeamMeUpScotty
He was also into eugenics.
As were John Maynard Keynes, Sir Winston Churchill, and many others:

http://listverse.com/2015/07/10/10-widely-admired-people-who-supported-eugenics/
Mr. B1ack
2017-08-10 01:47:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Byker
UNDERSHAFT. What does it matter whether they are wrong if they are true?"
"Under Socialism, you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly
fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If
it were discovered that you had not character and industry enough to be
worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner;
but whilst you were permitted to live, you would have to live well."
-- George Bernard Shaw, The Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and
Capitalism, New York: NY, Brentano (1928) p. 670.
Socialism is the mentality of the hive - order and
industry and conformity. No color, no nuance,
just institutional grey. Misfits are forcibly expelled.
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