Discussion:
on germany's irrational energy 'policy'
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abelard
2020-01-09 12:57:34 UTC
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German newsmagazine
Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted to stop climate change
without stopping economic growth too, the world needed more nuclear
energy, not less. Germany’s decision to step out of nuclear, he
agreed, was “paranoid.”


etc
--
www.abelard.org
Pancho
2020-01-09 13:33:44 UTC
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Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German newsmagazine
Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted to stop climate change
without stopping economic growth too, the world needed more nuclear
energy, not less. Germany’s decision to step out of nuclear, he
agreed, was “paranoid.”
Hum! Professor Pinker... Professor of psychology.

I wonder what Stormzy has to say on the subject.
abelard
2020-01-09 13:51:53 UTC
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On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 13:33:44 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German newsmagazine
Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted to stop climate change
without stopping economic growth too, the world needed more nuclear
energy, not less. Germany’s decision to step out of nuclear, he
agreed, was “paranoid.”
Hum! Professor Pinker... Professor of psychology.
why do you care, as he is correct?
Post by Pancho
I wonder what Stormzy has to say on the subject.
--
www.abelard.org
Pancho
2020-01-09 16:59:59 UTC
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Post by abelard
On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 13:33:44 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German newsmagazine
Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted to stop climate change
without stopping economic growth too, the world needed more nuclear
energy, not less. Germany’s decision to step out of nuclear, he
agreed, was “paranoid.”
Hum! Professor Pinker... Professor of psychology.
why do you care, as he is correct?
Well that is the point I don't know if he is correct. I would like to
see practical, costed, plans of how Germany intends to reduce reliance
on carbon fuels. I'm not particularly interested in the views of someone
who probably doesn't know any more than me. I want to hear the views of
experts.

If I wanted to know about visual cognition, psycholinguistics or hair
styling I would listen to Pinkler.
abelard
2020-01-09 17:26:06 UTC
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On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 16:59:59 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by abelard
On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 13:33:44 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German newsmagazine
Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted to stop climate change
without stopping economic growth too, the world needed more nuclear
energy, not less. Germany’s decision to step out of nuclear, he
agreed, was “paranoid.”
Hum! Professor Pinker... Professor of psychology.
why do you care, as he is correct?
Well that is the point I don't know if he is correct.
hardly...he may be intelligent enough to look up the
relevant details
i've already done that and come the conclusion that
he is correct

here is some of it
https://www.abelard.org/briefings/replacing_fossil_fuels.php
Post by Pancho
I would like to
see practical, costed, plans of how Germany intends to reduce reliance
on carbon fuels. I'm not particularly interested in the views of someone
who probably doesn't know any more than me. I want to hear the views of
experts.
If I wanted to know about visual cognition, psycholinguistics or hair
styling I would listen to Pinkler.
you could look that up also...

i see no sign that you have done either
--
www.abelard.org
True Blue
2020-01-09 14:27:43 UTC
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Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German newsmagazine
Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted to stop climate change
without stopping economic growth too, the world needed more nuclear
energy, not less. Germany’s decision to step out of nuclear, he
agreed, was “paranoid.”
Germany's decision on nuclear could be the biggest mistake they have made since' 41.

It is imperative that Britain goes ahead with SMRs and soon.
David Edmunds
2020-01-10 00:26:40 UTC
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Post by True Blue
Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German newsmagazine
Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted to stop climate change
without stopping economic growth too, the world needed more nuclear
energy, not less. Germany’s decision to step out of nuclear, he
agreed, was “paranoid.”
Germany's decision on nuclear could be the biggest mistake they have made since' 41.
It is imperative that Britain goes ahead with SMRs and soon.
A couple of years ago I saw some research and costings showing that nuclear derived electricity calculations were based on only a partial life cycle and varied between 4 and 220 gCO2/kWh. Who to believe?

And can we factor in the cost of ChernoFukus lesser accidents, and 100 thousand year storage or pricey fast reactor burning of the long lived radionucleotides?

Two and a bit orders of magnitude in the cost calculations????

David Martin Edmunds
Ned Latham
2020-01-10 00:49:58 UTC
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Post by David Edmunds
Post by True Blue
Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/
nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German
newsmagazine Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted
to stop climate change without stopping economic growth too,
the world needed more nuclear energy, not less. Germany's
decision to step out of nuclear, he agreed, was "paranoid".
Germany's decision on nuclear could be the biggest mistake
they have made since' 41.
It is imperative that Britain goes ahead with SMRs and soon.
A couple of years ago I saw some research and costings showing
that nuclear derived electricity calculations were based on only
a partial life cycle and varied between 4 and 220 gCO2/kWh.
Who to believe?
And can we factor in the cost of ChernoFukus lesser accidents,
and 100 thousand year storage or pricey fast reactor burning
of the long lived radionucleotides?
Two and a bit orders of magnitude in the cost calculations?
We have the sun. We should use it.

But we need to develop safe, long-lasting nuclear power plants too;
not for earthly use but for when we venture out into the stars. If
we wait until then to do the development work, it'll be too late,
and every accident or power outage will mean the extinction of
those travelling in that habitat.
David Edmunds
2020-01-10 10:45:42 UTC
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Post by Ned Latham
Post by David Edmunds
Post by True Blue
Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/
nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German
newsmagazine Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted
to stop climate change without stopping economic growth too,
the world needed more nuclear energy, not less. Germany's
decision to step out of nuclear, he agreed, was "paranoid".
Germany's decision on nuclear could be the biggest mistake
they have made since' 41.
It is imperative that Britain goes ahead with SMRs and soon.
A couple of years ago I saw some research and costings showing
that nuclear derived electricity calculations were based on only
a partial life cycle and varied between 4 and 220 gCO2/kWh.
Who to believe?
And can we factor in the cost of ChernoFukus lesser accidents,
and 100 thousand year storage or pricey fast reactor burning
of the long lived radionucleotides?
Two and a bit orders of magnitude in the cost calculations?
We have the sun. We should use it.
But we need to develop safe, long-lasting nuclear power plants too;
not for earthly use but for when we venture out into the stars. If
we wait until then to do the development work, it'll be too late,
and every accident or power outage will mean the extinction of
those travelling in that habitat.
I am 100% behind keeping up UK expertise in the technologies, and you give a valid example but I am doubtful about nuclear as a clean or a cheap or a safe power source.

David Martin Edmunds
abelard
2020-01-10 12:06:08 UTC
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On Fri, 10 Jan 2020 02:45:42 -0800 (PST), David Edmunds
Post by David Edmunds
Post by Ned Latham
Post by David Edmunds
Post by True Blue
Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/
nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German
newsmagazine Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted
to stop climate change without stopping economic growth too,
the world needed more nuclear energy, not less. Germany's
decision to step out of nuclear, he agreed, was "paranoid".
Germany's decision on nuclear could be the biggest mistake
they have made since' 41.
It is imperative that Britain goes ahead with SMRs and soon.
A couple of years ago I saw some research and costings showing
that nuclear derived electricity calculations were based on only
a partial life cycle and varied between 4 and 220 gCO2/kWh.
Who to believe?
And can we factor in the cost of ChernoFukus lesser accidents,
and 100 thousand year storage or pricey fast reactor burning
of the long lived radionucleotides?
Two and a bit orders of magnitude in the cost calculations?
We have the sun. We should use it.
But we need to develop safe, long-lasting nuclear power plants too;
not for earthly use but for when we venture out into the stars. If
we wait until then to do the development work, it'll be too late,
and every accident or power outage will mean the extinction of
those travelling in that habitat.
I am 100% behind keeping up UK expertise in the technologies, and you give a valid example but I am doubtful about nuclear as a clean or a cheap or a safe power source.
evidence is that nuclear is safer than any other source
--
www.abelard.org
Pancho
2020-01-10 12:36:47 UTC
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I think we're all suspicious of fission, but if we can develop a
practical fusion reactor, we'll have clean power from hydrogen
fuel and with helium exhaust. Plenty of hydrogen out there between
the stars, they say.
I'm not convinced by that. A lot of the problem with nuclear is upfront
build cost. There is little reason to believe fusion reactors would be
cheap to build.

It seems more probable that we could develop cheap fast fission
reactors, which are both relatively safe and produce much less waste.
Not that the current level of waste is technically a problem, apart from
in some peoples minds.

The big problem at the moment seems to be political will. Politicians
can say we are moving toward zero carbon by building windmills and the
electorate buy it. It doesn't matter that it seems unlikely that
windmills will be able to provide enough power or reliable power.

At the very least politicians should be actively investing in fast
fission reactor R&D.
Plenty here on earth too, nicely stored on the oceans for us. So
it would do for earhtly use as well.
Plenty of uranium and thorium too.

Byker
2020-01-10 01:08:06 UTC
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Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Eight years ago:


Four years ago:


Two years ago:


One year ago:


One day ago:


I think the Krauts are starting to see the light...
True Blue
2020-01-10 08:44:26 UTC
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Post by David Edmunds
Post by True Blue
Post by abelard
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/opinion/nuclear-power-germany.html
"Are the Germans irrational? Steven Pinker seems to think so.
Professor Pinker, a Harvard psychologist, told the German newsmagazine
Der Spiegel recently that if mankind wanted to stop climate change
without stopping economic growth too, the world needed more nuclear
energy, not less. Germany’s decision to step out of nuclear, he
agreed, was “paranoid.”
Germany's decision on nuclear could be the biggest mistake they have made since' 41.
It is imperative that Britain goes ahead with SMRs and soon.
A couple of years ago I saw some research and costings showing that nuclear derived electricity calculations were based on only a partial life cycle and varied between 4 and 220 gCO2/kWh. Who to believe?
And can we factor in the cost of ChernoFukus lesser accidents,
The deaths due to nuclear accidents to date, rank nuclear a "very safe" industry.

and 100 thousand year storage or pricey fast reactor burning of the long lived radionucleotides?
Post by David Edmunds
Two and a bit orders of magnitude in the cost calculations????
It's got to beat digging or pumping old trees from the ground. Or even worse, erecting 10,000 windmills on top of huge poles set in thousands of tons of concrete, exposed to the elements/sea spray.
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