Discussion:
Did God know everything in the creation, or did he rely on engineers and biologists?
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Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
2019-08-13 04:10:01 UTC
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This is a question I posed on Quora, where I pretend to a stupid sheep asking for guidance. To my surprise, this guy says yes, he relied on experts. Others disagree. Do they have a clue?

This is the answer to my question:

Actually you ask a very good question. God has always existed and lives in a realm where linear Time as we experience it does not exist. Then God created parts of Heaven and certain celestial beings. There are parts of Heaven that were created before linear Time was created. Then linear Time was created, then other parts of Heaven were created along with other celestial beings who have a beginning in Time.

Yes, God did create various kinds of celestial beings including engineers to control the circuits of energy that uphold and sustain the the physical universe. And biologists who are involved in the creation of Life when a planet is the right distance from a stable star.

There are different levels of Heaven and Time us different on each level.

God knows everything but chooses not to do everything himself. Some parts of the fabric of the physical universe are parts of God Himself or more directly connected to God. Other circuits of energy proceed from Heaven and are controlled by celestial beings.

There are many phenomena in the spiritual realm that are instantaneous where there is no passage of linear Time. Einstein called this the Large Extra Dimension in De Sitter Space.

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Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
2019-08-14 01:30:27 UTC
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This opinion makes sense:

Well - look at it this way . . .

According to the claims of theists, god existed before anything else existed.

That means god existed before any knowledge existed, so even though we was (allegedly) omniscient, there literally was nothing for him to know because nothing (and therefore no knowledge of it) existed yet.

That being the case, would that mean that god created everything out of pure ignorance?

Looking at the world today, that doesn’t seem so far fetched, does it?
Roger
2019-08-14 07:30:25 UTC
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Post by Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
Well - look at it this way . . .
According to the claims of theists, god existed before anything else existed.
That means god existed before any knowledge existed, so even though we was (allegedly) omniscient, there literally was nothing for him to know because nothing (and therefore no knowledge of it) existed yet.
According to the theological reasoning offered by DesCartes, the world was created by mechanisms that are beyond our comprehension and those mechanisms themselves are 'God'.

Then putting his mathematicians cap on he turned the equation round and declared that God is everything we don't understand; which others extrapolate to religion as a set of rules that must be followed for a functional society because we are not capable of fully comprehending the ramifications of not following them.
Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
2019-08-15 05:03:52 UTC
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Post by Roger
Post by Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
Well - look at it this way . . .
According to the claims of theists, god existed before anything else existed.
That means god existed before any knowledge existed, so even though we was (allegedly) omniscient, there literally was nothing for him to know because nothing (and therefore no knowledge of it) existed yet.
According to the theological reasoning offered by DesCartes, the world was created by mechanisms that are beyond our comprehension and those mechanisms themselves are 'God'.
Then putting his mathematicians cap on he turned the equation round and declared that God is everything we don't understand; which others extrapolate to religion as a set of rules that must be followed for a functional society because we are not capable of fully comprehending the ramifications of not following them.
Well, I think God acts in irrational ways, like 2+2=3.

He doesn't follow simple arithmetic. I know it makes sense to those who seek an easy answer but even kids should be able to figure it out.
Roger
2019-08-15 07:23:07 UTC
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Post by Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
Post by Roger
Post by Wise TibetanMonkey, Most Humble Philosopher
Well - look at it this way . . .
According to the claims of theists, god existed before anything else existed.
That means god existed before any knowledge existed, so even though we was (allegedly) omniscient, there literally was nothing for him to know because nothing (and therefore no knowledge of it) existed yet.
According to the theological reasoning offered by DesCartes, the world was created by mechanisms that are beyond our comprehension and those mechanisms themselves are 'God'.
Then putting his mathematicians cap on he turned the equation round and declared that God is everything we don't understand; which others extrapolate to religion as a set of rules that must be followed for a functional society because we are not capable of fully comprehending the ramifications of not following them.
Well, I think God acts in irrational ways, like 2+2=3.
Yes, god built an irrational world. The ratio of the diameter to the circumference of a circle, the length of the diagonal from corner to corner of a square , natural logarithms, the golden rule......they are all irrational numbers we cannot express exactly with our number systems.

Then there is the square root of -1, so irrational we cannot express it at all; so we just imagine it exists, because it's essential to try and model so many real world things.

And then there is the real world itself. How do we calculate geodesics, the shortest route from A to B. Should be simple, we have the equations....but we can only really solve the them for a limited subset of conditions.

And so on to theories that try to describe what our brains clearly perceive as orderly patterns but maths can only begin to describe as 'Chaos theory'.

So we begin to see were DesCartes is coming from. It's not God that is irrational, it's just that God represents the things we do not comprehend.

"And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.". Don't worry, be happy.
Ian Jackson
2019-08-15 07:43:15 UTC
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Post by Roger
So we begin to see were DesCartes is coming from. It's not God that is
irrational, it's just that God represents the things we do not
comprehend.
"And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your
hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.". Don't worry, be happy.
To which Brexiteers might add, "And things are really going to be great
after we leave the EU."
--
Ian
Roger
2019-08-15 10:36:17 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Roger
So we begin to see were DesCartes is coming from. It's not God that is
irrational, it's just that God represents the things we do not
comprehend.
"And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your
hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.". Don't worry, be happy.
To which Brexiteers might add, "And things are really going to be great
after we leave the EU."
--
Ian
26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?
27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?
28 “And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.
29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these.
30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith?
31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’
32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.


Amen.

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