Discussion:
Letwin amendment is carried, Boris screwed again!
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MM
2019-10-19 15:28:54 UTC
Permalink
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.

What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.

Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.

MM
Grik-basstardo®™
2019-10-19 15:39:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
Good luck with that.

There is nothing in the Surrender Act that compels him to *negotiate*
an extension. All he has to do is request it in writing.
Peeler
2019-10-19 17:30:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 08:39:31 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
sexual cripple, making an ass of herself as "Grik-basstardo®™", farted
Post by Grik-basstardo®™
Post by MM
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
Good luck with that.
There is nothing in the Surrender Act that compels him to *negotiate*
an extension. All he has to do is request it in writing.
Isn't it strange that it's EXCLUSIVELY trolls that side with Boris? That's
because he himself is a troll! His entire demeanour and posture is that of a
troll! Yep, he's one of your kind, Retardovic! <BG>
--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic arguing in favour of pedophilia, again:
"There will always be progressives such as Harriet Harperson who want to
take that extra step forward. Paedophiles are still a long way from
being widely accepted."
MID: <rlMUE.676067$***@usenetxs.com>
Stephen Cole
2019-10-19 15:41:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
What he said was that he wouldn’t “negotiate an extension”. That’s not the
same as saying he wouldn’t send the letter that the law requires him to.

The more interesting shenanigans were what went on in the points of order,
with Rees-Mogg delivering a (out of order, essentially) business statement
by point of order, therefore not being required to take questions. Watch it
on BBC Parliament, it’s quite the remarkable 40 minutes of TV. Tories in
meltdown.
--
M0TEY // STC
www.twitter.com/ukradioamateur
The Todal
2019-10-19 17:45:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Cole
Post by MM
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
What he said was that he wouldn’t “negotiate an extension”. That’s not the
same as saying he wouldn’t send the letter that the law requires him to.
That's my take on it too.

It surely wouldn't be unlawful for him to say to the EU "I've been
mandated to send you this letter requesting an extension. Personally I
think an extension is a waste of your time and ours and I wouldn't blame
you if you didn't grant an extension".

Faced with a cliff edge, MPs would have to vote for an unsatisfactory
deal in order to avoid a no-deal. Or, the third option, revoke. Just to
stop the clock. That would be the sensible option.
Post by Stephen Cole
The more interesting shenanigans were what went on in the points of order,
with Rees-Mogg delivering a (out of order, essentially) business statement
by point of order, therefore not being required to take questions. Watch it
on BBC Parliament, it’s quite the remarkable 40 minutes of TV. Tories in
meltdown.
I watched it too.

The Speaker wasn't sure that it was procedurally correct and was going
to take advice.

It was startling that after the result of the Letwin vote, once Boris
and Corbyn had spoken, most Tories upped and left the chamber choosing
not to hear the important and valid contributions made by backbenchers.
The Speaker pointed out that he isn't allowed to stop people leaving, to
imprison them in the chamber.
Roger
2019-10-19 17:59:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
It surely wouldn't be unlawful for him to say to the EU "I've been
mandated to send you this letter requesting an extension. Personally I
think an extension is a waste of your time and ours and I wouldn't blame
you if you didn't grant an extension".
I am pretty sure he has already spoken to EU leaders and they know full well what the situation is without additional explanations ;-)
Post by The Todal
Faced with a cliff edge, MPs would have to vote for an unsatisfactory
deal in order to avoid a no-deal. Or, the third option, revoke. Just to
stop the clock. That would be the sensible option.
Most labour MP's do not think it is unsatisfactory, labour are talking it down because they don't want Boris to succeed. But of course many non Corbynite labourists would love to see Corbyn fall flat on his face so they can get someone else in before the next election.

Many if not most Labour MP's would relish the prospect of an election campaign with Brexit done and off the agenda and a new leader.

BTW, third option does not exist. I believe ECJ has indicated that revoke may not be used to stop the clock. It would be a definitive move. That would be the death of the Labour party.
Stephen Cole
2019-10-20 06:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Stephen Cole
Post by MM
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
What he said was that he wouldn’t “negotiate an extension”. That’s not the
same as saying he wouldn’t send the letter that the law requires him to.
That's my take on it too.
It surely wouldn't be unlawful for him to say to the EU "I've been
mandated to send you this letter requesting an extension. Personally I
think an extension is a waste of your time and ours and I wouldn't blame
you if you didn't grant an extension".
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head. Have a biscuit.

I did enjoy the way that Boris’s additional letters and also his petulant
refusal to sign the Benn Act letter were simply completely ignored by the
EU, who will in short order agree the extension. Shenanigans in the Commons
this coming week no doubt as BoJo tries to crash through his deal before
31st October, which I understand is now impossible as the EU won’t ratify
the deal on their side next week now; next opportunity for that is in
November.
Post by The Todal
Faced with a cliff edge, MPs would have to vote for an unsatisfactory
deal in order to avoid a no-deal. Or, the third option, revoke. Just to
stop the clock. That would be the sensible option.
If there’s genuinely going to be a no deal exit, Parliament will revoke
A50. There is no doubt of that at all.
Post by The Todal
Post by Stephen Cole
The more interesting shenanigans were what went on in the points of order,
with Rees-Mogg delivering a (out of order, essentially) business statement
by point of order, therefore not being required to take questions. Watch it
on BBC Parliament, it’s quite the remarkable 40 minutes of TV. Tories in
meltdown.
I watched it too.
The Speaker wasn't sure that it was procedurally correct and was going
to take advice.
Bercow said that he’d been told to expect a business statement, a proper
one in accordance with the usual format and rules, so it really is
remarkable how Rees-Mogg acted as he did. Disgraceful, I’d say.

Several MPs raised the question subsequently as to “what about the Queen’s
Speech?”. That’s supposed to be being debated and voted on next week. If
that doesn’t happen, is this Parliament even legal??
Post by The Todal
It was startling that after the result of the Letwin vote, once Boris
and Corbyn had spoken, most Tories upped and left the chamber choosing
not to hear the important and valid contributions made by backbenchers.
The Speaker pointed out that he isn't allowed to stop people leaving, to
imprison them in the chamber.
Clearly orchestrated as a snub to the SNP in general and Joanna Cherry (who
was asking a question at the time) in particular. It’s foolish behaviour
considering the Scottish Nationalists will exploit it in the upcoming
election.
--
M0TEY // STC
www.twitter.com/ukradioamateur
Roger
2019-10-20 08:27:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Cole
If there’s genuinely going to be a no deal exit, Parliament will revoke
A50. There is no doubt of that at all.
I would cast some serious doubt on it. The ECJ has said that it will not accept cancelling article 50 as a delaying tactic; only as a definitive statement of intending to stay in the EU. Brexit; End of....as they would put it in some quarters.

Whilst such a vote might be received with whoops of joy by London's pseudo intellectuals, it would be the death of the Labour party if they voted it; especially after parliament has had the chance to accept a backstop free deal.

So who would vote it through?
abelard
2019-10-20 10:40:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
If there’s genuinely going to be a no deal exit, Parliament will revoke
A50. There is no doubt of that at all.
I would cast some serious doubt on it. The ECJ has said that it will not accept cancelling article 50 as a delaying tactic; only as a definitive statement of intending to stay in the EU. Brexit; End of....as they would put it in some quarters.
Whilst such a vote might be received with whoops of joy by London's pseudo intellectuals, it would be the death of the Labour party if they voted it; especially after parliament has had the chance to accept a backstop free deal.
So who would vote it through?
none of the time servers will welcome any form of responsibility...

that is why they won't bring boris down and won't vote for an
erection
--
www.abelard.org
MM
2019-10-20 11:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
If there’s genuinely going to be a no deal exit, Parliament will revoke
A50. There is no doubt of that at all.
I would cast some serious doubt on it. The ECJ has said that it will not accept cancelling article 50 as a delaying tactic; only as a definitive statement of intending to stay in the EU. Brexit; End of....as they would put it in some quarters.
Whilst such a vote might be received with whoops of joy by London's pseudo intellectuals, it would be the death of the Labour party if they voted it; especially after parliament has had the chance to accept a backstop free deal.
So who would vote it through?
75% of British MPs?

MM
Roger
2019-10-19 16:21:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
MM
OK, stark news for you I'm afraid.

Boris is cleverer than you give him credit for, which is also why he was able to reach a backstop free agreement with the EU; something you and others here repeatedly stated he would not be able to do.

What BJ said was the is not going to negotiate a delay with the EU and the law does not require him to do so.

This is quite true. The law requires him to send a letter, with the exact wording. If he cut and pastes the text of the letter and drops it in the post box then he has complied with the Benn act. He does not need to negotiate it. It is up to the EU to decide whether to offer one or not, and unless they actively offer the 31st of December it is also up to parliament to accept the delay.

In the meantime, seeing as how he is PM and the opposition will not allow him an election, then his legal requirement is to carry on running the country as per the queens speech. So he must continue to try and pass his withdrawal agreement.

Ironically, the Letwin amendment could actually lead to a no deal Brexit even if Parliament agrees to proceed with with the EU deal.
MM
2019-10-20 11:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by MM
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
MM
OK, stark news for you I'm afraid.
Boris is cleverer than you give him credit for, which is also why he was able to reach a backstop free agreement with the EU; something you and others here repeatedly stated he would not be able to do.
He also said he would never allow a border down the Irish Sea.

So despite the British taxpayer having coughed up a billion quid bung
to the DUP, he sold them down the river anyway, due to expediency.

I don't think he deserves any credit for that.
Post by Roger
What BJ said was the is not going to negotiate a delay with the EU and the law does not require him to do so.
This is quite true. The law requires him to send a letter, with the exact wording. If he cut and pastes the text of the letter and drops it in the post box then he has complied with the Benn act. He does not need to negotiate it. It is up to the EU to decide whether to offer one or not, and unless they actively offer the 31st of December it is also up to parliament to accept the delay.
In the meantime, seeing as how he is PM and the opposition will not allow him an election, then his legal requirement is to carry on running the country as per the queens speech. So he must continue to try and pass his withdrawal agreement.
Oh, yes. That Queen's Speech which was supposed to be debated in the
coming week.Now it's just Brexit all the way and the poor old Queen
and those 26 "my government will" announcements have been dumped on a
shelf now.
Post by Roger
Ironically, the Letwin amendment could actually lead to a no deal Brexit even if Parliament agrees to proceed with with the EU deal.
How can we leave WITH a deal and WITHOUT a deal at the same time?

MM

Grik-basstardo®™
2019-10-19 16:41:48 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:29:34 +0100, Tufnell Park
Post by MM
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
MM
And i thought it was only third world so called republics that
threatened to imprison their leaders.
That would make Boris just like Mandela, a popular democratic leader
being subverted by a minority. LOL
Prison works! Mandela never reoffended!
Tufnell Park
2019-10-19 16:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grik-basstardo®™
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:29:34 +0100, Tufnell Park
Post by MM
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
MM
And i thought it was only third world so called republics that
threatened to imprison their leaders.
That would make Boris just like Mandela, a popular democratic leader
being subverted by a minority. LOL
Prison works! Mandela never reoffended!
No but he got his way in the end!
Tufnell Park
2019-10-19 17:31:12 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:42:52 +0100, Tufnell Park
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by Grik-basstardo®™
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:29:34 +0100, Tufnell Park
Post by MM
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
MM
And i thought it was only third world so called republics that
threatened to imprison their leaders.
That would make Boris just like Mandela, a popular democratic leader
being subverted by a minority. LOL
Prison works! Mandela never reoffended!
No but he got his way in the end!
He got all kinds of things in his end while in prison!
I'm guessing you would know more about that sort of thing than me!
Peeler
2019-10-19 18:26:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 10:29:07 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
sexual cripple, making an ass of herself as "Grik-basstardo®™", farted
Post by Tufnell Park
Post by Grik-basstardo®™
Prison works! Mandela never reoffended!
No but he got his way in the end!
He got all kinds of things in his end while in prison!
You mean the very things you KEEP dreaming about on Usenet every day (going
by your incurable fantasies about men's genitals and arses), pedophilic gay
dreckserb?
--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic arguing in favour of pedophilia, again:
"That [referring to the term "consenting adults"] is just an outdated legal
construct. Are you telling me that a 13-year old who spends 15 hours a day
on Facebook is incapable of consent?"
MID: <Og0VE.1298131$***@usenetxs.com>
Peeler
2019-10-19 17:31:28 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 09:41:48 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
sexual cripple, making an ass of herself as "Grik-basstardo®™", farted
Post by Grik-basstardo®™
That would make Boris just like Mandela, a popular democratic leader
being subverted by a minority. LOL
Prison works! Mandela never reoffended!
More psychopathic bullshit from the resident psychopath! <tsk>
--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic arguing in favour of pedophilia, again:
"Isn't it time that paedophiles were admitted to the LGBTQ rainbow?
Now that every other sexual deviation seems to have been accommodated?"
MID: <Y8LUE.513827$***@usenetxs.com>
abelard
2019-10-19 16:53:23 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 17:29:34 +0100, Tufnell Park
Post by MM
I didn't think it would happen, but it did. Boris Johnson lost yet
another vote by 16.
What happened next was that he stood at the despatch box and brazenly
defied the law.
Am now looking forward to his appearance before the court on Monday,
perhaps sooner.
And i thought it was only third world so called republics that
threatened to imprison their leaders.
That would make Boris just like Mandela, a popular democratic leader
being subverted by a minority. LOL
just so
--
www.abelard.org
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