Discussion:
Will PO managers be prosecuted...or at least sacked?
(too old to reply)
Roger
2020-02-11 08:55:53 UTC
Permalink
The PO are finally owing up to the fact that more than 500 Sub Postmasters were incorrectly prosecuted for theft and fraud (lives ruined in most cases) when in reality it was the PO IT system that was making mistakes.

Apart from paying compensation, I can't help wondering if the managers responsible can, and should, be prosecuted for dealling with the issue so superficially.
A. Filip
2020-02-11 09:03:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
The PO are finally owing up to the fact that more than 500 Sub
Postmasters were incorrectly prosecuted for theft and fraud (lives
ruined in most cases) when in reality it was the PO IT system that was
making mistakes.
Apart from paying compensation, I can't help wondering if the managers
responsible can, and should, be prosecuted for dealling with the issue
so superficially.
How many sub postmasters *per year*?
--
A. Filip
| The course of true anything never does run smooth. (Samuel Butler)
Roger
2020-02-11 12:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Filip
Post by Roger
The PO are finally owing up to the fact that more than 500 Sub
Postmasters were incorrectly prosecuted for theft and fraud (lives
ruined in most cases) when in reality it was the PO IT system that was
making mistakes.
Apart from paying compensation, I can't help wondering if the managers
responsible can, and should, be prosecuted for dealling with the issue
so superficially.
How many sub postmasters *per year*?
Actually it would have been enougth to do a simple audit on just one of them before prosecuting to find out that things were not as they seem. Taking somebody to court and ruining them purely on the basis of a computer printout is not acting responsibly.

In fact it seems more likely that there is something bigger bihind it, like a scheme were a small corrupt group of management aimed to skim a few quid a week of hundreds of branches (which happens a lot ) and the whole thing got out of hand.

There should at least be a SFO investigation.
safoijasdlkjs
2020-02-11 13:03:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
The PO are finally owing up to the fact that more than 500 Sub
Postmasters were incorrectly prosecuted for theft and fraud (lives
ruined in most cases) when in reality it was the PO IT system that was
making mistakes.
Apart from paying compensation, I can't help wondering if the managers
responsible can, and should, be prosecuted for dealling with the issue
so superficially.
whole case = just another instance of application / failure of computer
systems/algorithms

'brutal machine filtering'

again and again .. we have these fine filtering 'solutions', being
applied onto human situations, getting it wrong -- killing/maiming/
destroying

the english, having absolutely no clue in the region of I.T. (it is
cultural), are the first to get into these messes, the least likely to
deal with it ..

being regressive idiots, the most likely to trust their own failed
attempts at the application of technology

no awareness, no literacy, no competence. There should be licenses
applied for, granted, for the application of machine filtering systems,
to human situations re: this, others .. re: universal credit
Roger
2020-02-11 15:59:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by safoijasdlkjs
Post by Roger
The PO are finally owing up to the fact that more than 500 Sub
Postmasters were incorrectly prosecuted for theft and fraud (lives
ruined in most cases) when in reality it was the PO IT system that was
making mistakes.
Apart from paying compensation, I can't help wondering if the managers
responsible can, and should, be prosecuted for dealling with the issue
so superficially.
whole case = just another instance of application / failure of computer
systems/algorithms
'brutal machine filtering'
again and again .. we have these fine filtering 'solutions', being
applied onto human situations, getting it wrong -- killing/maiming/
destroying
the english, having absolutely no clue in the region of I.T. (it is
cultural), are the first to get into these messes, the least likely to
deal with it ..
being regressive idiots, the most likely to trust their own failed
attempts at the application of technology
no awareness, no literacy, no competence. There should be licenses
applied for, granted, for the application of machine filtering systems,
to human situations re: this, others .. re: universal credit
If this is the best Russian bots can offer we have little to fear :D
Keema's Nan
2020-02-11 16:40:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by safoijasdlkjs
Post by Roger
The PO are finally owing up to the fact that more than 500 Sub
Postmasters were incorrectly prosecuted for theft and fraud (lives
ruined in most cases) when in reality it was the PO IT system that was
making mistakes.
Apart from paying compensation, I can't help wondering if the managers
responsible can, and should, be prosecuted for dealling with the issue
so superficially.
whole case = just another instance of application / failure of computer
systems/algorithms
'brutal machine filtering'
again and again .. we have these fine filtering 'solutions', being
applied onto human situations, getting it wrong -- killing/maiming/
destroying
the english, having absolutely no clue in the region of I.T. (it is
cultural), are the first to get into these messes, the least likely to
deal with it ..
being regressive idiots, the most likely to trust their own failed
attempts at the application of technology
no awareness, no literacy, no competence. There should be licenses
applied for, granted, for the application of machine filtering systems,
to human situations re: this, others .. re: universal credit
If this is the best Russian bots can offer we have little to fear :D
I have never had any reason to fear the Russians anyway.

I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just a pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to schools,
hospitals and transport.
Roger
2020-02-11 16:43:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just a pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to schools,
hospitals and transport.
Ah, the perennial plot.....
True Blue
2020-02-11 18:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just a pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to schools,
hospitals and transport.
Ah, the perennial plot.....
The tinfoiling is strong with that one.....
Keema's Nan
2020-02-11 18:25:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by True Blue
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just a pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to schools,
hospitals and transport.
Ah, the perennial plot.....
The tinfoiling is strong with that one.....
Ah, the perennial excuse.....

Contrived to stifle any discussion of embarrassing subjects.
Roger
2020-02-11 18:36:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by True Blue
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just a pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to schools,
hospitals and transport.
Ah, the perennial plot.....
The tinfoiling is strong with that one.....
Ah, the perennial excuse.....
Contrived to stifle any discussion of embarrassing subjects.
Oh yes.....after all, we wouldn't wan't to risk getting into any details :D
Keema's Nan
2020-02-11 20:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by True Blue
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just a
pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to
schools,
hospitals and transport.
Ah, the perennial plot.....
The tinfoiling is strong with that one.....
Ah, the perennial excuse.....
Contrived to stifle any discussion of embarrassing subjects.
Oh yes.....after all, we wouldn't wan't to risk getting into any details :D
No you wouldn’t, because you are frightened of what might happen next.

However, it is interesting which simple choice of words starts up the rapid
denial, thread disruption and personal humiliation responses.

No change for almost 20 years with that strategy.
True Blue
2020-02-11 18:44:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by True Blue
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just a pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to schools,
hospitals and transport.
Ah, the perennial plot.....
The tinfoiling is strong with that one.....
Ah, the perennial excuse.....
Contrived to stifle any discussion of embarrassing subjects.
Most of your posts are embarrassing.
Keema's Nan
2020-02-11 20:22:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by True Blue
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by True Blue
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just a
pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to
schools,
hospitals and transport.
Ah, the perennial plot.....
The tinfoiling is strong with that one.....
Ah, the perennial excuse.....
Contrived to stifle any discussion of embarrassing subjects.
Most of your posts are embarrassing.
Why do you find them embarrassing?

Please explain - preferably with links to your working.
Roger
2020-02-12 11:27:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by True Blue
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by True Blue
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just a
pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order
that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to
schools,
hospitals and transport.
Ah, the perennial plot.....
The tinfoiling is strong with that one.....
Ah, the perennial excuse.....
Contrived to stifle any discussion of embarrassing subjects.
Most of your posts are embarrassing.
Why do you find them embarrassing?
Please explain - preferably with links to your working.
Here's the link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_Smith


Now the explanation:

Putting aside his nominal far left position (which I doubt aligns much with you), Citizen Smith was the classic Rebel Without a Cause.

Instead of Rebelling against real problems that have been put in his path or fighting against wrongs he can see others are suffering, Citizen Smith is the sort of persons who imagines the sort of thing he would like to be seen to Rebel against; and in it's absence reads the plot anything and everything. Often with pathetic, if not comical, contrivences.

Your posts remind me of Citizen Smith.
Keema's Nan
2020-02-12 21:52:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by True Blue
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by True Blue
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just
a
pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order
that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to
schools,
hospitals and transport.
Ah, the perennial plot.....
The tinfoiling is strong with that one.....
Ah, the perennial excuse.....
Contrived to stifle any discussion of embarrassing subjects.
Most of your posts are embarrassing.
Why do you find them embarrassing?
Please explain - preferably with links to your working.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_Smith
Putting aside his nominal far left position (which I doubt aligns much with
you), Citizen Smith was the classic Rebel Without a Cause.
Instead of Rebelling against real problems that have been put in his path or
fighting against wrongs he can see others are suffering, Citizen Smith is the
sort of persons who imagines the sort of thing he would like to be seen to
Rebel against; and in it's absence reads the plot anything and everything.
Often with pathetic, if not comical, contrivences.
Your posts remind me of Citizen Smith.
I watched that series when it was broadcast, although I thought it was pretty
lame.Did you?

It was a comedy. If you find that embarrassing, it was because you do not
understand the attitudes of the 1970s.

However, as an attempt to dodge the subject and introduce a strawman, it is
pretty pathetic.
Roger
2020-02-13 12:54:35 UTC
Permalink
No straw man. I find you attitude of "Everything is a plot of government against the people" to be very reminiscent of Citizen Smith.

And before you ask....no I don't have link to 'prove' that :D
Keema's Nan
2020-02-13 13:17:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
No straw man. I find you attitude of "Everything is a plot of government
against the people" to be very reminiscent of Citizen Smith.
And before you ask....no I don't have link to 'prove' that :D
I never said ‘everything’ is a plot of government against the people,
which is why you will never find a link to ‘prove’ it.

What I object to is the attitude that ’nothing is ever being plotted by the
government against the people, unless the government announce to the people
that something is being plotted against them’.

Google ’Sibel Edmonds’

Keema's Nan
2020-02-11 18:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
I know the official narrative says we must do, but AFAIAC that is just a pack
of lies in order to keep us all in a perpetual state of fear, in order that
£trillions can be diverted to defence manufacturers rather than to schools,
hospitals and transport.
Ah, the perennial plot.....
Which you are not able to disprove.
Roger
2020-02-11 18:32:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Roger
Ah, the perennial plot.....
Which you are not able to disprove.
Therefore it must be true!
Keema's Nan
2020-02-11 20:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Roger
Ah, the perennial plot.....
Which you are not able to disprove.
Therefore it must be true!
And you can’t provide any links which support any of your statements.
The Iceberg
2020-02-12 16:57:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Roger
Ah, the perennial plot.....
Which you are not able to disprove.
Therefore it must be true!
And you can’t provide any links which support any of your statements.
did you agree with the freedom of movement thing in the USSR back in the day?
Keema's Nan
2020-02-12 21:54:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Iceberg
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Roger
Ah, the perennial plot.....
Which you are not able to disprove.
Therefore it must be true!
And you can’t provide any links which support any of your statements.
did you agree with the freedom of movement thing in the USSR back in the day?
Non sequitur.
True Blue
2020-02-11 18:12:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
The PO are finally owing up to the fact that more than 500 Sub Postmasters were incorrectly prosecuted for theft and fraud (lives ruined in most cases) when in reality it was the PO IT system that was making mistakes.
Apart from paying compensation, I can't help wondering if the managers responsible can, and should, be prosecuted for dealling with the issue so superficially
"Among the subpostmasters who suffered from the accusations of dishonesty was Seema Misra, who was sentenced to 15 months in prison in 2010 after being found guilty of stealing £78,000 from the post office she ran in West Byfleet, Surrey.

She was sent to prison on her my son's 10th birthday and was eight weeks' pregnant at the time, later suffering the indignity of having her baby in hospital while wearing a tag.

After being released from prison for good behaviour after four months Mrs Misra and her family moved house because of the abuse they received in the street.

Mrs Misra told the Telegraph: “I never thought I would go through an experience like this. At what should have been the happiest moment in my life – I was pregnant with my second child – I was in the worst place.

“If I hadn’t been pregnant I would have killed myself. I can’t work because of the conviction – we are living on one income with two kids. I lost everything. My job. My house. My reputation.”

She added: “When you are inside you lose faith in the justice system. Even today I have an insurance claim that is two months old but they won't pay because there is a fraud case in my name. This judgement is a relief. It’s closure and I hope it means we can move on.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/11/post-office-ordered-pay-subpostmasters-58m-compensation-false/

That is shocking. I hope the poor woman gets a good settlement.
Loading...