Discussion:
Taliban retaking Afghanistan.
(too old to reply)
Pancho
2021-07-09 09:40:15 UTC
Permalink
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>

One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.

Do any of them still post?
A. Filip
2021-07-09 10:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
Do any of them still post?
I think I remember solid faith that US+ would not follow British Empire
and Soviet "Afghan fate" due too vast technological superiority.

20 years of Yet Another Afghan "Victory" boils down to:
US+ *COULD* win Afghan war.
US+ *COULD NOT* win Afghan war at acceptable costs.
I am pretty sure this Vietnam 2.0 lesson will be forgotten *AGAIN* in
"20 years".

I can see 20 years of shifting the blame to next US administration.
I am not happy with "details" of Biden's move but next 10 years of
Afghan war would be MUCH worse. At very least it clearly documents
*current* limits of US+ military might (deployed far away).
--
A. Filip : Big Tech Brother is watching you.
| I put up my thumb... and it blotted out the planet Earth.
| (Neil Armstrong)
Pancho
2021-07-10 09:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Filip
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
Do any of them still post?
I think I remember solid faith that US+ would not follow British Empire
and Soviet "Afghan fate" due too vast technological superiority.
US+ *COULD* win Afghan war.
US+ *COULD NOT* win Afghan war at acceptable costs.
I am pretty sure this Vietnam 2.0 lesson will be forgotten *AGAIN* in
"20 years".
The heroic victories in the Falklands and Grenada lead some politicians
to forget that it was problematic to attack people who might fight back.

Afghanistan was amazing stupidity, given the history.
Post by A. Filip
I can see 20 years of shifting the blame to next US administration.
I am not happy with "details" of Biden's move but next 10 years of
Afghan war would be MUCH worse. At very least it clearly documents
*current* limits of US+ military might (deployed far away).
The US power is that it can hurt opponents rather than invade them.

North Korea and Iran are the interesting cases now. North Korea showed
the USA was powerless to stop it getting Nukes and Iran may do the same.
I think the US has a limited time frame to get Iran back into a trading
relationship. If they don't, Iran may just decide it is better in the
long run to get Nukes now, so that there is then no point in economic
sanctions to try to stop them getting nukes.
A. Filip
2021-07-10 11:05:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
[…]
North Korea and Iran are the interesting cases now. North Korea showed
the USA was powerless to stop it getting Nukes and Iran may do the
same. I think the US has a limited time frame to get Iran back into a
trading relationship. If they don't, Iran may just decide it is better
in the long run to get Nukes now, so that there is then no point in
economic sanctions to try to stop them getting nukes.
Hostile Military Takeover of Iraq/Saddamistan IMHO delivered one strong
lesson: It "may be" *very* risky to stay long in *may* have nukes state -
no half measures. Would US be ready to invade Saddamistan facing (at very
least) high risk of a few (3+) nuclear strikes in advancing US forces?
No half measures would make invasion less likely but eventual invasion
would be "a quite different game".
--
A. Filip : Big Tech Brother is watching you.
| "I've seen, I SAY, I've seen better heads on a mug of beer"
| (Senator Claghorn)
JNugent
2021-07-10 14:07:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
Post by A. Filip
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
Do any of them still post?
I think I remember solid faith that US+ would not follow British Empire
and Soviet "Afghan fate" due too vast technological superiority.
US+ *COULD* win Afghan war.
US+ *COULD NOT* win Afghan war at acceptable costs.
I am pretty sure this Vietnam 2.0 lesson will be forgotten *AGAIN* in
"20 years".
The heroic victories in the Falklands and Grenada lead some politicians
to forget that it was problematic to attack people who might fight back.
???

The Argentine armed forces (all branches) certainly "fought back".

What Argentina didn't do was carry on a lost war by means of terrorism.
Post by Pancho
Afghanistan was amazing stupidity, given the history.
Post by A. Filip
I can see 20 years of shifting the blame to next US administration.
I am not happy with "details"  of Biden's move but next 10 years of
Afghan war would be MUCH worse.  At very least it clearly documents
*current* limits of US+ military might (deployed far away).
The US power is that it can hurt opponents rather than invade them.
North Korea and Iran are the interesting cases now. North Korea showed
the USA was powerless to stop it getting Nukes and Iran may do the same.
I think the US has a limited time frame to get Iran back into a trading
relationship. If they don't, Iran may just decide it is better in the
long run to get Nukes now, so that there is then no point in economic
sanctions to try to stop them getting nukes.
A. Filip
2021-07-10 14:19:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Pancho
Post by A. Filip
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
Do any of them still post?
I think I remember solid faith that US+ would not follow British Empire
and Soviet "Afghan fate" due too vast technological superiority.
US+ *COULD* win Afghan war.
US+ *COULD NOT* win Afghan war at acceptable costs.
I am pretty sure this Vietnam 2.0 lesson will be forgotten *AGAIN* in
"20 years".
The heroic victories in the Falklands and Grenada lead some
politicians to forget that it was problematic to attack people who
might fight back.
???
The Argentine armed forces (all branches) certainly "fought back".
What Argentina didn't do was carry on a lost war by means of terrorism.
[…]
How many *Taliban's* terrorist attacks hit US/UK?

Is your IMHO idiotic/misleading "oversimplification" fully intentional?

Has Afghan war made US/UK safer? I doubt. At very least it is not
obvious after 20 years of fabrication "(yet) unpaid bills of honour".
--
A. Filip : Big Tech Brother is watching you.
| Bachelors' wives and old maids' children are always perfect.
| (Nicolas Chamfort)
JNugent
2021-07-10 14:39:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by A. Filip
Post by JNugent
Post by Pancho
Post by A. Filip
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
Do any of them still post?
I think I remember solid faith that US+ would not follow British Empire
and Soviet "Afghan fate" due too vast technological superiority.
US+ *COULD* win Afghan war.
US+ *COULD NOT* win Afghan war at acceptable costs.
I am pretty sure this Vietnam 2.0 lesson will be forgotten *AGAIN* in
"20 years".
The heroic victories in the Falklands and Grenada lead some
politicians to forget that it was problematic to attack people who
might fight back.
???
The Argentine armed forces (all branches) certainly "fought back".
What Argentina didn't do was carry on a lost war by means of terrorism.
[…]
How many *Taliban's* terrorist attacks hit US/UK?
Why do you ask?
Post by A. Filip
Is your IMHO idiotic/misleading "oversimplification" fully intentional?
Assuming you know: what are you talking about?

I made reference only to Argentina (in response, judging to the
attribution carats) to Pancho and his belief that the Falklands War was
conducted against an enemy who did/could/would not fight back.

The number of terrorist attacks attributed to Argentina is (AFAIAA)
precisely zero.
Post by A. Filip
Has Afghan war made US/UK safer? I doubt. At very least it is not
obvious after 20 years of fabrication "(yet) unpaid bills of honour".
If all you want is to rant about the invasion of Afghanistan, please
feel free to do so. I have no desire to stop you. Neither did I make any
comment upon that topic.
JNugent
2021-07-09 14:26:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
Do any of them still post?
I think so. There's abelard for a start.
Andy Walker
2021-07-09 15:59:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Pancho
Do any of them still post?
I think so. There's abelard for a start.
I still post occasionally. But the signal to noise ratio has
declined very substantially; of the ~50 articles/day, more than 80%
is filtered out by my KF [which is quite limited, and doesn't get rid
of any serious content]. We've virtually stopped discussing genuine
politics; there's much more in "uk.legal.moderated". Posters seem
more intent on putting down other posters than making points. But
there are still a few worthwhile topics .... If you look back at
the archives from 10, 15, 20, 25 years back, there's much less spam
and much less abuse.

[Yes, I know; it's partly my own fault, I could always start
something. But ICBA. Sorry.]
--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Gottschalk
Pancho
2021-07-10 08:25:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
Do any of them still post?
I think so. There's abelard for a start.
I imagine abelard was in favour of the war? Perhaps he would like to
comment?

We had many theories for the wars in the Middle East (including Iraq) at
the time: Bush correcting his father's failure, oil, Zionism, Saudi
connections and naked jingoism, but it is interesting to consider who
benefited the most.

My view would be... China. Prior to 9/11 Bush had being gearing up for a
cold war/trade war with China. The Middle East wars totally diverted his
attention and China was given at least a decade to gain a huge advantage
in global manufacturing, huge economic power. Not until Trump did any
one try to address the problem.

I think the historians will look back and wonder why so much effort was
wasted on the irrelevant Middle East when the danger from China was so
obvious.
Andrew Smith
2021-07-09 18:29:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
I thought the Allies would beat them, the way they beat the Iraqis;
however, I've been reading that the US has been funneling billions to Pakistan,
who has, with the complicity of the US, been funneling it to the Taliban.
I understand why Pakistan would funnel money to the Taliban, but why the US
would send so much to Pakistan when they know it goes to the Taliban
confounds me. I guess they got bin Liner and think that continuing to fight the
Taliban will just keep pissing off Muslims and creating more enemies.
Overall, it feels like the West is in retreat, but maybe that's just me.
Caught something on March 5th and have been sick ever since.

Anyway, I am very sorry for the non-Taliban Afghans. Wish we'd made a
better effort to rescue them. I mean, we took some of the French with us at Dunkirk.
Also, as an atheist, I feel terrible that extreme religion is again triumphant, and
expect that the Taliban will be machine-gunning women in the stadium
before the crowds again soon.
Post by Pancho
Do any of them still post?
Moved over to quora. Trying to protect Churchill from criticism.
Seems like there is an extreme bifurcation of views about Churchill.
Indians and the left wing think he is worse than Hitler and Stain combined
(e.g., one Marxist said that Churchill murdered 1.8 billion Indians)
whereas respectable historians like Zaheer Masani, Arthur Herman, and
Andrew Roberts tend to exculpate him. I am a right wing bastard but I
would like to find out the truth.
Algernon Goss-Custard
2021-07-09 19:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Smith
Also, as an atheist, I feel terrible that extreme religion is again triumphant, and
expect that the Taliban will be machine-gunning women in the stadium
before the crowds again soon.
Again? When did that happen?
--
Algernon
Andrew Smith
2021-07-09 19:43:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Algernon Goss-Custard
Post by Andrew Smith
Also, as an atheist, I feel terrible that extreme religion is again triumphant, and
expect that the Taliban will be machine-gunning women in the stadium
before the crowds again soon.
Again? When did that happen?
--
Algernon
http://www.rawa.org/murder-w.htm
'
KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Thousands of people watched as a woman, cowering beneath a pale blue all-enveloping burqa, was shot and killed today in the first public execution of a woman in Kabul since the Taliban religious army took control three years ago.'
Algernon Goss-Custard
2021-07-11 10:33:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andrew Smith
Post by Algernon Goss-Custard
Post by Andrew Smith
Also, as an atheist, I feel terrible that extreme religion is again triumphant, and
expect that the Taliban will be machine-gunning women in the stadium
before the crowds again soon.
Again? When did that happen?
http://www.rawa.org/murder-w.htm
'
KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) - Thousands of people watched as a woman,
cowering beneath a pale blue all-enveloping burqa, was shot and killed
today in the first public execution of a woman in Kabul since the
Taliban religious army took control three years ago.'
Hardly agrees with your summary above, but anyway I didn't realise
people still believed that sort of propaganda. Wasn't there another one,
from June 2001, I believe, about two British nurses being ill-treated in
some way? I remember hearing that one on the radio at the time and
thinking, "Ah. They're preparing us for some kind of action against
Afghanistan." I wonder what happened to the nurses, if they ever
existed.
--
Algernon
Spike
2021-07-10 07:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Algernon Goss-Custard
Post by Andrew Smith
Also, as an atheist, I feel terrible that extreme religion is again triumphant, and
expect that the Taliban will be machine-gunning women in the stadium
before the crowds again soon.
Again? When did that happen?
I think the phrase "...shot with automatic weapons..." would have more
accurately reflected the situation.

I believe the women were shot during half-time at a football match that
was compulsory for people to attend.
--
Spike
abelard
2021-07-10 16:47:42 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 11:29:31 -0700 (PDT), Andrew Smith
Post by Andrew Smith
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
I thought the Allies would beat them, the way they beat the Iraqis;
however, I've been reading that the US has been funneling billions to Pakistan,
who has, with the complicity of the US, been funneling it to the Taliban.
I understand why Pakistan would funnel money to the Taliban, but why the US
would send so much to Pakistan when they know it goes to the Taliban
confounds me. I guess they got bin Liner and think that continuing to fight the
Taliban will just keep pissing off Muslims and creating more enemies.
Overall, it feels like the West is in retreat, but maybe that's just me.
Caught something on March 5th and have been sick ever since.
Anyway, I am very sorry for the non-Taliban Afghans. Wish we'd made a
better effort to rescue them. I mean, we took some of the French with us at Dunkirk.
Also, as an atheist, I feel terrible that extreme religion is again triumphant, and
expect that the Taliban will be machine-gunning women in the stadium
before the crowds again soon.
Post by Pancho
Do any of them still post?
Moved over to quora. Trying to protect Churchill from criticism.
Seems like there is an extreme bifurcation of views about Churchill.
Indians and the left wing think he is worse than Hitler and Stain combined
(e.g., one Marxist said that Churchill murdered 1.8 billion Indians)
whereas respectable historians like Zaheer Masani, Arthur Herman, and
Andrew Roberts tend to exculpate him. I am a right wing bastard but I
would like to find out the truth.
not exactly the height of honour are they!

churchill was biased against indians and favoured moslems...
doubtless influenced by empire interests
the indians were often regarded as 'pagans' relative to islam

'churchill and the islamic world', by warren dockter(sic) is
useful but slushy background


the religion of peace is being disciplined by china, pootin
and the empire(usa, britain etc) among others.
for obvious reasons

they are a bluddy nuisance where-ever they try to be
in charge of the world!
iClaudius
2021-07-09 21:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
Do any of them still post?
We have the fancy watches; they have the time.
abelard
2021-07-10 16:49:18 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 10:40:15 +0100, Pancho
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
maintain the oil supply
Post by Pancho
Do any of them still post?
yes
Pancho
2021-07-11 12:29:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 10:40:15 +0100, Pancho
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
maintain the oil supply
Did it work, did it maintain the oil supply from Afghanistan? I
understand the Taliban had severely restricted production before the
2001 invasion.

FAOD: I'm assuming you mean cannabis oil. Afghans don't export petrol
type oil.
abelard
2021-07-11 13:36:56 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 11 Jul 2021 13:29:32 +0100, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by abelard
On Fri, 9 Jul 2021 10:40:15 +0100, Pancho
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
maintain the oil supply
Did it work, did it maintain the oil supply from Afghanistan? I
understand the Taliban had severely restricted production before the
2001 invasion.
FAOD: I'm assuming you mean cannabis oil. Afghans don't export petrol
type oil.
the area is treated as a whole (ummah)...not
as independent countries

where is the best place to locate your military this year
Incubus
2021-07-12 11:52:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
<https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-57773120>
One wonders what posters to this group 20 years ago thought would happen.
Do any of them still post?
I remember thinking that arms dealers would get rich from contracts and there
would be a flood of refugees spreading terror.

Loading...