Discussion:
We have nothing to fear from Huawei
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Roger
2020-02-10 19:08:47 UTC
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Whilst in other news....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449778
A. Filip
2020-02-10 19:22:15 UTC
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Post by Roger
Whilst in other news....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449778
We have nothing to fear from Microsoft/Google/Facebook/…
NSA could tap Merkel/Germany but it would never ever tap Jonson/UK.
AFAIR US spied Merkel's phone [A]

So put it straight in plain text or get lost. Your position is:
UK should not fear US spying but it should fear PRC/China spying.

[A] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/08/nsa-tapped-german-chancellery-decades-wikileaks-claims-merkel
Post by Roger
NSA tapped German Chancellery for decades, WikiLeaks claims
New documents released suggest communications between top officials
including Angela Merkel were intercepted by the US spy agency
Reuters in Berlin
Wed 8 Jul 2015 23.39 BST
Last modified on Fri 14 Jul 2017 21.55 BST
--
A. Filip
| Suicide is the sincerest form of self-criticism. (Donald Kaul)
Roger
2020-02-10 20:24:02 UTC
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Post by A. Filip
Post by Roger
Whilst in other news....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449778
We have nothing to fear from Microsoft/Google/Facebook/…
NSA could tap Merkel/Germany but it would never ever tap Jonson/UK.
AFAIR US spied Merkel's phone [A]
UK should not fear US spying but it should fear PRC/China spying.
My position is I do not fear US spying and I do fear China spying.

I'm quite clear about that, period.

HOWEVER, my issue is with people saying we have nothing to fear from Huwawei....this does not change because you do or do not trust the USA.

Also the prime alternatives to Huawei are Scandanavian. So what's your issue with the USA? And if it has nothing to do with the risk from Huawei please put it in your own thread :-\
Keema's Nan
2020-02-10 21:48:03 UTC
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Post by Roger
Post by A. Filip
Post by Roger
Whilst in other news....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449778
We have nothing to fear from Microsoft/Google/Facebook/…
NSA could tap Merkel/Germany but it would never ever tap Jonson/UK.
AFAIR US spied Merkel's phone [A]
UK should not fear US spying but it should fear PRC/China spying.
My position is I do not fear US spying and I do fear China spying.
I'm quite clear about that, period.
HOWEVER, my issue is with people saying we have nothing to fear from
Huwawei....this does not change because you do or do not trust the USA.
Also the prime alternatives to Huawei are Scandanavian. So what's your issue
with the USA?
Mine is that they send a senior CIA spy over here, but do not declare she is
a spy, or what she was doing - but then when fate dictates this is an evil
beyond acceptable and forces her into having a road accident; the USA deem
her spying job to be so trustworthy as far as us Brits are concerned that
they whisk her back home asap using bare faced lies such as diplomatic
immunity and still reveal nothing about what the twats are doing over here.
Post by Roger
And if it has nothing to do with the risk from Huawei please
put it in your own thread :-\
If the Chinese did what the Yanks have done, you McCarthyites would be all
over them, telling us just what a shit oppressive regime Chinese politicians
have devised, and how dare they be caught spying on other nation’s
subjects.

And yet, because this is the USA; you come over all slimeball and brown-nosed
while telling us that there is nothing to be worried about.

How naive and hypocritical can an excuse for a human get? (Don’t answer
that because you are in a majority of many millions).
Roger
2020-02-10 22:38:10 UTC
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Post by Keema's Nan
How naive and hypocritical can an excuse for a human get? (Don’t answer
that because you are in a majority of many millions).
I make no excuses. I fear Authoritarian states more than Democratic ones. And despite McCarthy (and Trump and everything else) I still think the USA is an order of magnitude more Democratic than China. Remember that the main difference between China and the USA is we know so much more about what goes on in the USA.

But I'm only saying that lest you think I am making excuses.

The real issue here is you are defending Huawei on the basis of completely unrelated misdemeanors. Like saying your not going to bother prosecuting a rapist because others are doing it more violently.

Even if you do believe that the USA are a worse threat than China (and you probably do, you seem to think anything western governments do is a plot against the plebs), that does not justify China's modus operandi.

Nor does it make me a supporter of McCarthyism; although I must admit it does make a change from being called a communist :D
Keema's Nan
2020-02-11 09:34:49 UTC
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Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
How naive and hypocritical can an excuse for a human get? (Don’t answer
that because you are in a majority of many millions).
I make no excuses. I fear Authoritarian states more than Democratic ones. And
despite McCarthy (and Trump and everything else) I still think the USA is an
order of magnitude more Democratic than China. Remember that the main
difference between China and the USA is we know so much more about what goes
on in the USA.
You think you do, but what if most of your ideas about the USA are lies?
Post by Roger
But I'm only saying that lest you think I am making excuses.
How can a country be democratic when its president has been accused by the
court of all manner of corruption charges - but is let off because all his
political mates vote for him?

That is like Boris Johnson being accused by the High Court of election
rigging, but taking the accusations to a vote in the HoC and (because he has
a majority) all the charges are defeated.

Any head of state worth his salt would have done the decent thing and
resigned, but not Trump. He is confident of re-election.
Post by Roger
The real issue here is you are defending Huawei on the basis of completely
unrelated misdemeanors. Like saying your not going to bother prosecuting a
rapist because others are doing it more violently.
I’m not defending anyone. I don’t like either of them. I just find it
strange that when the Chinese try and do something the yanks have been doing
for decades and desperately trying to keep it secret, people such as yourself
rush to defend the USA as beacons of virtue in comparison.
Post by Roger
Even if you do believe that the USA are a worse threat than China (and you
probably do, you seem to think anything western governments do is a plot
against the plebs), that does not justify China's modus operandi.
Nor does it make me a supporter of McCarthyism; although I must admit it does
make a change from being called a communist :D
You see, you are so naive you take Lardy seriously. He calls everyone a
communist.
Maxwell Boltzmann
2020-02-11 11:25:28 UTC
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Post by Keema's Nan
How can a country be democratic when its president has been accused by the
court of all manner of corruption charges - but is let off because all his
political mates vote for him?
Because the impeachment process is not part of the USA's democracy. It
is now purely a party political phenomenon.
Post by Keema's Nan
That is like Boris Johnson being accused by the High Court of election
rigging, but taking the accusations to a vote in the HoC and (because he has
a majority) all the charges are defeated.
Any head of state worth his salt would have done the decent thing and
resigned, but not Trump.
Nobody needs to resign when they've only been accused of something. Only
when they're convicted.

Remember all the Russia stuff that Trump was also accused of? That
turned out a load of bollocks.
--
Max
Keema's Nan
2020-02-11 12:02:24 UTC
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Post by Maxwell Boltzmann
Post by Keema's Nan
How can a country be democratic when its president has been accused by the
court of all manner of corruption charges - but is let off because all his
political mates vote for him?
Because the impeachment process is not part of the USA's democracy. It
is now purely a party political phenomenon.
Which is pointless as well as being undemocratic.
Post by Maxwell Boltzmann
Post by Keema's Nan
That is like Boris Johnson being accused by the High Court of election
rigging, but taking the accusations to a vote in the HoC and (because he has
a majority) all the charges are defeated.
Any head of state worth his salt would have done the decent thing and
resigned, but not Trump.
Nobody needs to resign when they've only been accused of something. Only
when they're convicted.
Is the modern excuse given by power mad idiots and their brown nose
supporters.
Post by Maxwell Boltzmann
Remember all the Russia stuff that Trump was also accused of? That
turned out a load of bollocks.
Yeah right.

You people really are suckers for loudmouth propagandists?
Roger
2020-02-11 12:22:00 UTC
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Post by Keema's Nan
You think you do, but what if most of your ideas about the USA are lies?
Then I would be badly mistaken. Somewhere along the line you have to make decisions about what you do and don't believe. I do not base my beliefs pn ad hoc internet postings ;-)

For example, I don't beleive a word Trump says :D As for China we actually know very little about it under the surface. In fact if China were a far more open society I might have more trust in it.

But, like I said, overall I believe the USA is an order of magnitude better than China, I don't have them on the same playing field.
Post by Keema's Nan
How can a country be democratic when its president has been accused by the
court of all manner of corruption charges - but is let off because all his
political mates vote for him?
The USA has a constitution than gives the president immunity from the normal judicial system for as long as he is in office. He requires a Senate majority which implies that to be impeached his crimes must be worse than political considerations.

But the continuation of that immunity requires the American public to keep electing him. That is Democracy.
Post by Keema's Nan
That is like Boris Johnson being accused by the High Court of election
rigging, but taking the accusations to a vote in the HoC and (because he has
a majority) all the charges are defeated.
Any head of state worth his salt would have done the decent thing and
resigned, but not Trump. He is confident of re-election.
I wouldn't agree with that. The facts are out there; nobody is denying what Trump did, let alone hide it. The Republican Defence is that the President was within his rights to do it and it's not an impeachable defence. In the Autumn the citizens at large will give their verdict, for good or for bad. That's Democracy.

There are people who say that some sections of society are too ignorant to vote and there should not be universal sufferage. I don't believe in that.

I believe in universal sufferage and if they choose to elect somebody who I think is an idiot, Amen. That's Democracy.
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Roger
The real issue here is you are defending Huawei on the basis of completely
unrelated misdemeanors. Like saying your not going to bother prosecuting a
rapist because others are doing it more violently.
I’m not defending anyone. I don’t like either of them. I just find it
strange that when the Chinese try and do something the yanks have been doing
for decades and desperately trying to keep it secret, people such as yourself
rush to defend the USA as beacons of virtue in comparison.
This is were you are screwing up, I made a comment about Huawei in a thread I started and A.Filip responded "So put it straight in plain text or get lost. Your position is: UK should not fear US spying but it should fear PRC/China spying."

i.e. according to A.Filip (whoever he is) I should not criticize China without taking into account the USA. The purpose of this thread was not to defend the USA, but I'm not going avoid talking about one country on the basis of another!

I also pointed out (to A.Filip) that the competitors to Huawei were Scandanavian, not American.

And this were you butted in with:

"Mine is that they send a senior CIA spy over here, but do not declare she is
a spy, or what she was doing - but then when fate dictates this is an evil
beyond acceptable and forces her into having a road accident; the USA deem
her spying job to be so trustworthy as far as....."

I really don't know what relevance this has.

You then went on to accuse me of McCarthyism.



e a worse threat than China (and you
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Roger
probably do, you seem to think anything western governments do is a plot
against the plebs), that does not justify China's modus operandi.
Nor does it make me a supporter of McCarthyism; although I must admit it does
make a change from being called a communist :D
You see, you are so naive you take Lardy seriously. He calls everyone a
communist.
Oh he's not the only one, not least because I am fairly left wing on many issues.
Pamela
2020-02-10 20:12:25 UTC
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Post by Roger
Whilst in other news....
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51449778
When you write "we" do you mean the Italians where you are in Italy?
Roger
2020-02-10 20:26:32 UTC
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Post by Pamela
When you write "we" do you mean the Italians where you are in Italy?
Yes, and Yes. Italians are going through similar discussions and b), I have a daual SIM phone with UK and Italian SIMS :D
Pamela
2020-02-11 19:26:39 UTC
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Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
When you write "we" do you mean the Italians where you are in Italy?
Yes, and Yes. Italians are going through similar discussions and b), I
have a daual SIM phone with UK and Italian SIMS :D
What does any of that have to do with UK politics, which is what this group
is about?
Keema's Nan
2020-02-11 21:27:35 UTC
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Post by Pamela
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
When you write "we" do you mean the Italians where you are in Italy?
Yes, and Yes. Italians are going through similar discussions and b), I
have a daual SIM phone with UK and Italian SIMS :D
What does any of that have to do with UK politics, which is what this group
is about?
Have you not had the latest code book?

'My aunt says that the squirrels are taking more of my nuts this season’
Joe
2020-02-12 08:47:05 UTC
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On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:27:35 +0000
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
When you write "we" do you mean the Italians where you are in Italy?
Yes, and Yes. Italians are going through similar discussions and
b), I have a daual SIM phone with UK and Italian SIMS :D
What does any of that have to do with UK politics, which is what
this group is about?
Have you not had the latest code book?
'My aunt says that the squirrels are taking more of my nuts this season’
Damn lucky. Our squirrels dig up spring bulbs.
--
Joe
Ian Jackson
2020-02-12 13:32:33 UTC
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Post by Joe
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:27:35 +0000
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
When you write "we" do you mean the Italians where you are in Italy?
Yes, and Yes. Italians are going through similar discussions and
b), I have a daual SIM phone with UK and Italian SIMS :D
What does any of that have to do with UK politics, which is what
this group is about?
Have you not had the latest code book?
'My aunt says that the squirrels are taking more of my nuts this season’
Damn lucky. Our squirrels dig up spring bulbs.
Plant a few nice and prickly holly leaves among the bulbs, just under
the surface of the soil so the squirrels don't see them. You don't need
many. The squirrels soon get the message.
--
Ian
Pamela
2020-02-12 16:20:32 UTC
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Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Joe
On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 21:27:35 +0000
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
When you write "we" do you mean the Italians where you are in Italy?
Yes, and Yes. Italians are going through similar discussions and
b), I have a daual SIM phone with UK and Italian SIMS :D
What does any of that have to do with UK politics, which is what
this group is about?
Have you not had the latest code book?
'My aunt says that the squirrels are taking more of my nuts this
season'
Damn lucky. Our squirrels dig up spring bulbs.
Plant a few nice and prickly holly leaves among the bulbs, just under
the surface of the soil so the squirrels don't see them. You don't need
many. The squirrels soon get the message.
Presumably that's the secret message Keema referred to. :)

"What's the best way to the railway station?"

Roger
2020-02-12 09:16:23 UTC
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Post by Pamela
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
When you write "we" do you mean the Italians where you are in Italy?
Yes, and Yes. Italians are going through similar discussions and b), I
have a daual SIM phone with UK and Italian SIMS :D
What does any of that have to do with UK politics, which is what this group
is about?
It has little to do with UK politics; it was you who raised the question...why?

My original OP (which nobody has commented on) has everything to do with UK politics, coming as it did on the heel of a debate where some politicians say the UK can trust Huawei because they are capable of keeping them under control, and others doubt that.
Pamela
2020-02-12 10:39:19 UTC
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Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
When you write "we" do you mean the Italians where you are in Italy?
Yes, and Yes. Italians are going through similar discussions and
b), I have a daual SIM phone with UK and Italian SIMS :D
What does any of that have to do with UK politics, which is what this
group is about?
It has little to do with UK politics; it was you who raised the question...why?
My original OP (which nobody has commented on)
Too bad. Perhaps it is uninteresting.
Post by Roger
has everything to do with
UK politics, coming as it did on the heel of a debate where some
politicians say the UK can trust Huawei because they are capable of
keeping them under control, and others doubt that.
You wrote "we" in the subject (We have nothing to fear") and confirmed you
are talking about Italians. This is a UK politics group. Perhaps you should
post it in an Italian group.
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