Discussion:
Who rules Britain?
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m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-20 08:12:00 UTC
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The Education Act of 1996? (Law of the Land prescribe hat publicly mainaintained schools shall be open for 380 sessions per year (1 school day = 2 sessions) The appropriate act also dictates that 10 of these sessions may be used for teacher training and that certain days (viz public holidays) Saturdays and Sundays shall not be included in these 190 days.

As we all know, the coronavirus pandemic obliged the government of the day to take what amounted to emergency powers to suspend these arrangements.

The time as now come to consider restoring the school day to how the sovereign Parliament of this country wished. In Boris' words, the lLocal Education authorities should not be requested but instructed to restore normality in this respect.

It's nothing to do with either pupil or teacher safety. Throughout the crisis some children have been ggonig to school continously. AFAIK there is not a reported single case where either a child, a teacher or anyone else has contracted a CoV-19 infection whilst in school.

It's all hokum and nothing to do with safety or anything else but everything to do with labour activists embedded on local education and union committees. It's time they were taken on.

Once the decision has been made and the date set all Local Education and governing bodies should be informed and instructed to open schools under their control on the set day. Any authority that fails to comply will find itself in the High Court. Boris wants to announce his intention to take this action preemptively across the floor of the HoC.

With teachers the problem is easier still to solve. Any teacher who fails to attend school on the set date other than for reasonable already accepted causes will be deemed to be in dispute and on strike with their salaries adjusted accordingly. Any opposition to re-opening will then dissolve. Believe me!

Indeed such a confrontation might provide grounds to strip LEa's pf their powers anyway. A long overdue and much needed reform.
Roger
2020-05-20 08:25:55 UTC
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Post by m***@btopenworld.com
The Education Act of 1996? (Law of the Land prescribe hat publicly mainaintained schools shall be open for 380 sessions per year (1 school day = 2 sessions) The appropriate act also dictates that 10 of these sessions may be used for teacher training and that certain days (viz public holidays) Saturdays and Sundays shall not be included in these 190 days.
As we all know, the coronavirus pandemic obliged the government of the day to take what amounted to emergency powers to suspend these arrangements.
The time as now come to consider restoring the school day to how the sovereign Parliament of this country wished. In Boris' words, the lLocal Education authorities should not be requested but instructed to restore normality in this respect.
It's nothing to do with either pupil or teacher safety. Throughout the crisis some children have been ggonig to school continously. AFAIK there is not a reported single case where either a child, a teacher or anyone else has contracted a CoV-19 infection whilst in school.
It's all hokum and nothing to do with safety or anything else but everything to do with labour activists embedded on local education and union committees. It's time they were taken on.
Once the decision has been made and the date set all Local Education and governing bodies should be informed and instructed to open schools under their control on the set day. Any authority that fails to comply will find itself in the High Court. Boris wants to announce his intention to take this action preemptively across the floor of the HoC.
With teachers the problem is easier still to solve. Any teacher who fails to attend school on the set date other than for reasonable already accepted causes will be deemed to be in dispute and on strike with their salaries adjusted accordingly. Any opposition to re-opening will then dissolve. Believe me!
Indeed such a confrontation might provide grounds to strip LEa's pf their powers anyway. A long overdue and much needed reform.
What is mpre concerning is that whilst many middle class children are getting a reasonable education at home via decent computers, fast internet connections and furloughed/work at home parents, children from less advantaged backgrounds are frequently missing out.

It's interesting to see which side the unions are on....OK, it's their job to push techers interests (who would obviously prefer to stay at home as long as possible), but you would expect them to look at the childrens interests as well.

I would suggest that there are many other infectious diseases that pose more risk to young children, who are mostly unaffected by Covid-19.

It's true that they could spread infection to teachers, who are more at risk; but the teachers also have a duty to the childrens interests; many essential workers have continued to work through the crisis, despite the risks.

Young childrens education should be considered just as essential.
Farmer Giles
2020-05-20 08:44:46 UTC
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Post by Roger
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
The Education Act of 1996? (Law of the Land prescribe hat publicly mainaintained schools shall be open for 380 sessions per year (1 school day = 2 sessions) The appropriate act also dictates that 10 of these sessions may be used for teacher training and that certain days (viz public holidays) Saturdays and Sundays shall not be included in these 190 days.
As we all know, the coronavirus pandemic obliged the government of the day to take what amounted to emergency powers to suspend these arrangements.
The time as now come to consider restoring the school day to how the sovereign Parliament of this country wished. In Boris' words, the lLocal Education authorities should not be requested but instructed to restore normality in this respect.
It's nothing to do with either pupil or teacher safety. Throughout the crisis some children have been ggonig to school continously. AFAIK there is not a reported single case where either a child, a teacher or anyone else has contracted a CoV-19 infection whilst in school.
It's all hokum and nothing to do with safety or anything else but everything to do with labour activists embedded on local education and union committees. It's time they were taken on.
Once the decision has been made and the date set all Local Education and governing bodies should be informed and instructed to open schools under their control on the set day. Any authority that fails to comply will find itself in the High Court. Boris wants to announce his intention to take this action preemptively across the floor of the HoC.
With teachers the problem is easier still to solve. Any teacher who fails to attend school on the set date other than for reasonable already accepted causes will be deemed to be in dispute and on strike with their salaries adjusted accordingly. Any opposition to re-opening will then dissolve. Believe me!
Indeed such a confrontation might provide grounds to strip LEa's pf their powers anyway. A long overdue and much needed reform.
What is mpre concerning is that whilst many middle class children are getting a reasonable education at home via decent computers, fast internet connections and furloughed/work at home parents, children from less advantaged backgrounds are frequently missing out.
It's interesting to see which side the unions are on....OK, it's their job to push techers interests (who would obviously prefer to stay at home as long as possible), but you would expect them to look at the childrens interests as well.
I would suggest that there are many other infectious diseases that pose more risk to young children, who are mostly unaffected by Covid-19.
It's true that they could spread infection to teachers, who are more at risk; but the teachers also have a duty to the childrens interests; many essential workers have continued to work through the crisis, despite the risks.
Young childrens education should be considered just as essential.
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.

The rush to get children back to school has very little to do with
education, but more to do with child-minding for greedy parents and
making sure that the little darlings receive all the latest brainwashing
to ensure they grow up with all the 'correct' views on race-mixing and
sexual deviancy.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-20 09:01:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by Roger
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
The Education Act of 1996? (Law of the Land prescribe hat publicly
mainaintained schools shall be open for 380 sessions per year (1 school
day = 2 sessions) The appropriate act also dictates that 10 of these
sessions may be used for teacher training and that certain days (viz
public holidays) Saturdays and Sundays shall not be included in these 190
days.
As we all know, the coronavirus pandemic obliged the government of the day
to take what amounted to emergency powers to suspend these arrangements.
The time as now come to consider restoring the school day to how the
sovereign Parliament of this country wished. In Boris' words, the lLocal
Education authorities should not be requested but instructed to restore
normality in this respect.
It's nothing to do with either pupil or teacher safety. Throughout the
crisis some children have been ggonig to school continously. AFAIK there
is not a reported single case where either a child, a teacher or anyone
else has contracted a CoV-19 infection whilst in school.
It's all hokum and nothing to do with safety or anything else but
everything to do with labour activists embedded on local education and
union committees. It's time they were taken on.
Once the decision has been made and the date set all Local Education and
governing bodies should be informed and instructed to open schools under
their control on the set day. Any authority that fails to comply will find
itself in the High Court. Boris wants to announce his intention to take
this action preemptively across the floor of the HoC.
With teachers the problem is easier still to solve. Any teacher who fails
to attend school on the set date other than for reasonable already
accepted causes will be deemed to be in dispute and on strike with their
salaries adjusted accordingly. Any opposition to re-opening will then
dissolve. Believe me!
Indeed such a confrontation might provide grounds to strip LEa's pf their
powers anyway. A long overdue and much needed reform.
What is mpre concerning is that whilst many middle class children are
getting a reasonable education at home via decent computers, fast internet
connections and furloughed/work at home parents, children from less
advantaged backgrounds are frequently missing out.
It's interesting to see which side the unions are on....OK, it's their job
to push techers interests (who would obviously prefer to stay at home as
long as possible), but you would expect them to look at the childrens
interests as well.
I would suggest that there are many other infectious diseases that pose
more risk to young children, who are mostly unaffected by Covid-19.
It's true that they could spread infection to teachers, who are more at
risk; but the teachers also have a duty to the childrens interests; many
essential workers have continued to work through the crisis, despite the
risks.
Young childrens education should be considered just as essential.
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.
The rush to get children back to school has very little to do with
education, but more to do with child-minding for greedy parents and
making sure that the little darlings receive all the latest brainwashing
to ensure they grow up with all the 'correct' views on race-mixing and
sexual deviancy.
Don’t rise to them.

The fact that Rowing and Roger (Nugent will be along later with full support,
once he gets up - usually about 1400 our time) have started on an identical
theme today, shows that this is merely a diversionary political tactic. The
idea is to point the finger at the unions who have demanded a less
politically biased and more nationalistic government from now on - which is
the nightmare scenario for those who control the Tories.

Coupled with the shambles of decision making which seems to have enveloped
the Boris cabinet recently, it needs a concerted effort to divert attention
to that old Tory stalwart (or so they still believe) vote winner - portraying
the unions as a jump backwards to the 1970s.

Unfortunately, the political right are now about as subtle as a brick, and
‘who rules Britain’ is straight out of the on-message central office
handbook.

They may fool a few hot heads on Twitter, but they fool no one on usenet.
Pamela
2020-05-20 10:22:22 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
They may fool a few hot heads on Twitter, but they fool no one on usenet.
I must be a Twitter failure because every time I try to search or navigate
there, I find next to nothing. At the same time the media will be reporting
how Twitter is chock full of comments about the same topic.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-20 11:24:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Keema's Nan
They may fool a few hot heads on Twitter, but they fool no one on usenet.
I must be a Twitter failure because every time I try to search or navigate
there, I find next to nothing. At the same time the media will be reporting
how Twitter is chock full of comments about the same topic.
I think you have to follow the right people on Twitter.

I don’t bother with it much, but it seems it is the opposite of usenet; as
everyone is effectively killfiled initially unless you actually choose to
follow them, which seems a bit too egotistic.
Joe
2020-05-20 15:16:17 UTC
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Permalink
On Wed, 20 May 2020 10:01:56 +0100
Post by Keema's Nan
unions who
have demanded a less politically biased and more nationalistic
government from now on -
I don't believe that for a second. There are few unions more
politically biased than the teachers', and they are very firmly wedded
to The Narrative, in fact they teach it.

As you know, according to The Narrative, nationalism is synonymous with
racism, which has been turned into the most serious accusation which
can be made against anyone.
--
Joe
Keema's Nan
2020-05-20 15:24:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe
On Wed, 20 May 2020 10:01:56 +0100
Post by Keema's Nan
unions who
have demanded a less politically biased and more nationalistic
government from now on -
I don't believe that for a second.
Is that because I posted it, or because you don’t read much?
Post by Joe
There are few unions more
politically biased than the teachers', and they are very firmly wedded
to The Narrative, in fact they teach it.
This is what has frightened the Telegraph/Mail fascist tendency -

The leader of the Trades Union Congress has declared “the state is back”
as the UK’s biggest unions urged the government to form a national recovery
council in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.

The TUC, which represents 48 unions in England and Wales, has calledin a
report (https://www.tuc.org.uk/ABetterRecovery)for the establishment of the
body, which it argues would bring together government, unions and employers
to create a greener and fairer economy.

In an interview with the Guardian
(https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/19/frances-ogrady-this-crisis-
has-made-us-question-everything), the TUC general secretary said there could
be no return to business as usual after the pandemic.

“We’ve got to get that safety net strung again, we’ve got to invest in
our public services, which may have to build resilience for a long time to
come,” Frances O’Grady said. “Unions are back … but the state is back
too.”

Launching the report alongside the shadow chancellor, Anneliese Dodds, on
Wednesday, the TUC is calling for a return of the unity shown in the years
after the second world war, arguing that the post-conflict decade of social
investment created growth of 3.3%, but a decade of austerity after the
banking crash resulted in growth of 1.9%.

“This can’t be about working people paying the price again,” said
O’Grady. “I think there is a real sense that this has got to be a
people’s effort. It can’t just be left to employers or politicians,
we’ve got to step up too.”

The TUC, which represents 5.5 million members, is also calling for an
overhaul of the UK’s business model – which it argues is based
onlow-paid, insecure jobs
(https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/12/more-than-5m-people-in-
britain-suffer-low-paid-insecure-work)and the exclusion of workers from
decision-making. It has called for an increase in theminimum wage
(https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/dec/31/boris-johnson-to-raise-
minimum-wages-by-four-times-inflation)to £10 an hour, a public sector pay
rise, a ban on zero-hours contracts and a job guarantee scheme –
particularly for young people facing a bleak future.

If you have been affected or have any information, we'd like to hear from
you. You can get in touch by filling in the form below, anonymously if you
wish or contact usvia WhatsApp
(https://www.theguardian.com/info/2015/aug/12/whatsapp-sharing-stories-with-
the-guardian)byclicking here
(https://api.whatsapp.com/send?phone=447867825056)or adding the contact
+44(0)7867825056. Only the Guardian can see your contributions and one of our
journalists may contact you to discuss further.

In the far-reaching document the TUC argues that systems for trade and
finance damage the interests of poorer countries and drive unfair pay, and
calls for changes to international rules and institutions, as well as a plan
to tackle discrimination faced by black and minority ethnic people, women and
disabled people.

It praises the government’s “constructive” work with unions on the
creation of the job
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/furlough-qa-all-you-need-to-
know-about-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme)retention scheme
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/12/furlough-qa-all-you-need-to-
know-about-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme), adding that the ability of
local authorities to take homeless people off the street, the emergence of
mutual support groups and the adaptability of the workforce, as well as
government interventions, “show the speed and scale of what can be done
when it is necessary”. It adds that the same commitment and urgency must be
applied to tackling the climate emergency.

“We’ve run out of excuses about creating a carbon-free economy,” said
O’Grady.

Industry bailouts and any state investment in the next few months must come
with an “Olympics-style plan” for jobs and a minimum requirement for the
use of UK products and services to rebuild UK manufacturing, says the report.
With unemployment levels set to increase dramatically, it argues jobless
people should be given a “funded individual learning account” to learn
new skills, with the promise of a job at the end of training.

“We’ve got to build back brick by brick, but it has to be fair, decent
rewards, fair taxes – all of that has got to be back on the agenda,” said
O’Grady. “I think the centre of gravity has shifted and people are
remembering why equality matters.”
Post by Joe
As you know, according to The Narrative, nationalism is synonymous with
racism, which has been turned into the most serious accusation which
can be made against anyone.
Joe
2020-05-20 15:31:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 20 May 2020 16:24:31 +0100
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Joe
On Wed, 20 May 2020 10:01:56 +0100
Post by Keema's Nan
unions who
have demanded a less politically biased and more nationalistic
government from now on -
I don't believe that for a second.
Is that because I posted it, or because you don’t read much?
Neither.

Do you really need to be told to watch what they do, not what they say?

Even if you read what they say, they appear to be calling for a return
to the 1970s.
--
Joe
Keema's Nan
2020-05-20 15:55:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe
On Wed, 20 May 2020 16:24:31 +0100
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Joe
On Wed, 20 May 2020 10:01:56 +0100
Post by Keema's Nan
unions who
have demanded a less politically biased and more nationalistic
government from now on -
I don't believe that for a second.
Is that because I posted it, or because you don’t read much?
Neither.
Do you really need to be told to watch what they do, not what they say?
Even if you read what they say, they appear to be calling for a return
to the 1970s.
I don’t need to be told anything when the alarm bells go off in my head, as
both Rowing and Roger could hardly wait in the scramble to get the anti-union
propaganda out as early this morning (sensible UK time) as possible. (Nugent
would have joined them at his usual 1400, but I suspect he read that earlier
and decided to keep quiet for today; and pretend that 15 years of the same
posting pattern would be forgotten if he changed it for 24 hours. This shows
the level of dumb and dumber we are dealing with).

I see you are a little late in your efforts to share central office
on-message instructions, but at least you have the ‘return to the 70s’
slogan correct. You may get a gold star, but I would guess that because of
the delay it may only be silver-gilt.
Pamela
2020-05-20 21:12:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 20 May 2020, Joe wrote (in
On Wed, 20 May 2020 10:01:56 +0100 Keema's Nan
unions who have demanded a less politically biased and more
nationalistic government from now on -
I don't believe that for a second.
Is that because I posted it, or because you don’t read much?
There are few unions more politically biased than the teachers', and
they are very firmly wedded to The Narrative, in fact they teach it.
This is what has frightened the Telegraph/Mail fascist tendency -
The leader of the Trades Union Congress has declared “the state is back”
as the UK’s biggest unions urged the government to form a national
recovery council in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.
The TUC, which represents 48 unions in England and Wales, has calledin a
report (https://www.tuc.org.uk/ABetterRecovery)for the establishment of
the body, which it argues would bring together government, unions and
employers to create a greener and fairer economy.
In an interview with the Guardian
(https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/19/frances-ogrady-this-cri
sis- has-made-us-question-everything), the TUC general secretary said
there could be no return to business as usual after the pandemic.
“We’ve got to get that safety net strung again, we’ve got to invest in
our public services, which may have to build resilience for a long time
to come,” Frances O’Grady said. “Unions are back … but the state is back
too.”
Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides
On 20 May 2020, Joe wrote (in
On Wed, 20 May 2020 10:01:56 +0100 Keema's Nan
unions who have demanded a less politically biased and more
nationalistic government from now on -
I don't believe that for a second.
Is that because I posted it, or because you don’t read much?
There are few unions more politically biased than the teachers', and
they are very firmly wedded to The Narrative, in fact they teach it.
This is what has frightened the Telegraph/Mail fascist tendency -
The leader of the Trades Union Congress has declared "the state is back"
as the UK’s biggest unions urged the government to form a national
recovery council in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.
The TUC, which represents 48 unions in England and Wales, has called in
a report (https://www.tuc.org.uk/ABetterRecovery) for the establishment
of the body, which it argues would bring together government, unions and
employers to create a greener and fairer economy.
Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean political adviser, Dominic Cummings
decides to do.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-21 06:25:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides
Wher do you get this idea from that Dominic Cummings is some kind of Tory supremo. He is not. He is a political adviser and a very shrewd and able one but he is but one of dozens who are on an hours notice if it comes to it. He doesn't even have a voice at the cabinet table.

If Boris really wanted him in government he could have him. All he would have to do is find a safe tory seat elevate the incumbent to the peerage and make Cummings the Tory candidate.

But neither would want that. Neither Cuumings nor Johnson would want the former encumbered by parliamentary and/or constituency work.
Roger
2020-05-21 07:34:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides
Wher do you get this idea from that Dominic Cummings is some kind of Tory supremo. He is not. He is a political adviser and a very shrewd and able one but he is but one of dozens who are on an hours notice if it comes to it. He doesn't even have a voice at the cabinet table.
If Boris really wanted him in government he could have him. All he would have to do is find a safe tory seat elevate the incumbent to the peerage and make Cummings the Tory candidate.
But neither would want that. Neither Cuumings nor Johnson would want the former encumbered by parliamentary and/or constituency work.
In the Discworld novels, Ankh Morparks patrician kept his advisor Leonard of Quirm in a tower that could only be reached by a secret statircase for fear that his thoughts might reach the public at large.

It's a satire on political advisors in general. Throughout the centries Leaders have always sought out radical free thinkers as a source of new ideas; but they are also well aware of the fact that such radical thoughts must be filtered, moderated and carefully selected; it's the politicians role to adapt radical ideas into policies that are in line with public expectations (and ethics!).

Cummings would be useless as a politician because, like all advisors, his unflitered thoughts are unfit for public consumption :D

OTOH, I really don't know why people are targetting Cummings in particular, advisors like this are a standard feature of politics. One can only assume that as he is particularly good the opposition want to get rid of him to harm Johnson and or the government.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-21 07:59:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides
Wher do you get this idea from that Dominic Cummings is some kind of Tory
supremo. He is not.
No. He is a nobody who married into money.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
He is a political adviser and a very shrewd and able one
Is that why David Cameron described him as a ‘career psychopath’?
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
but he is but one of dozens who are on an hours notice if it comes to it. He
doesn't even have a voice at the cabinet table.
Why would he need to, when he can speak privately with the PM at any time he
likes?
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
If Boris really wanted him in government he could have him. All he would have
to do is find a safe tory seat elevate the incumbent to the peerage and make
Cummings the Tory candidate.
But neither would want that. Neither Cuumings nor Johnson would want the
former encumbered by parliamentary and/or constituency work.
abelard
2020-05-21 12:13:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 21 May 2020 08:59:12 +0100, Keema's Nan
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides
Wher do you get this idea from that Dominic Cummings is some kind of Tory
supremo. He is not.
No. He is a nobody who married into money.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
He is a political adviser and a very shrewd and able one
Is that why David Cameron described him as a ‘career psychopath’?
if he did

it's the current snowflake word for 'objective'

in roger's terms...it has to be fluffed up for public consumption
--
www.abelard.org
Pamela
2020-05-21 09:07:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides
Wher do you get this idea from that Dominic Cummings is some kind of
Tory supremo. He is not. He is a political adviser and a very shrewd and
able one but he is but one of dozens who are on an hours notice if it
comes to it. He doesn't even have a voice at the cabinet table.
If Boris really wanted him in government he could have him. All he would
have to do is find a safe tory seat elevate the incumbent to the peerage
and make Cummings the Tory candidate.
But neither would want that. Neither Cuumings nor Johnson would want the
former encumbered by parliamentary and/or constituency work.
Those close to No.10 observe that Dominic Cummings is hugely influential on
what this government does. Much more so than Peter Mandelson.

Cummings is credited with much of the Brexit referendum campaign and its
successful outcome. He's now observed to have a lot of sway on Brexit policy
and the discussions. His current plan for the civil service seems unopposed
by Boris and sends shivers down many spines. And there are those who ask why
Cummings attends a Covid scientific advisory group if it isn't to exert his
influence.

The following means Cummings is a sufficient power behind the Prime Minister
to influence political outcomes largely by blowing in Boris's ear:

"Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides"
Incubus
2020-05-21 10:35:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides
Wher do you get this idea from that Dominic Cummings is some kind of
Tory supremo. He is not. He is a political adviser and a very shrewd and
able one but he is but one of dozens who are on an hours notice if it
comes to it. He doesn't even have a voice at the cabinet table.
If Boris really wanted him in government he could have him. All he would
have to do is find a safe tory seat elevate the incumbent to the peerage
and make Cummings the Tory candidate.
But neither would want that. Neither Cuumings nor Johnson would want the
former encumbered by parliamentary and/or constituency work.
Those close to No.10 observe that Dominic Cummings is hugely influential on
what this government does. Much more so than Peter Mandelson.
Cummings is credited with much of the Brexit referendum campaign and its
successful outcome. He's now observed to have a lot of sway on Brexit policy
and the discussions. His current plan for the civil service seems unopposed
by Boris and sends shivers down many spines. And there are those who ask why
Cummings attends a Covid scientific advisory group if it isn't to exert his
influence.
The following means Cummings is a sufficient power behind the Prime Minister
"Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides"
Yet none of the hand-wringing Guardian lapdogs complained about the influence
Alastair Cambell had on Blair's government. It's just the Left doing what the
Left does best - sniping at their opponents without so much as a glance in the
mirror.
Roger
2020-05-21 10:50:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Yet none of the hand-wringing Guardian lapdogs complained about the influence
Alastair Cambell had on Blair's government. It's just the Left doing what the
Left does best - sniping at their opponents without so much as a glance in the
mirror.
I don't agree with the principle one wrong justifies another. But in this case I don't understand what is 'Wrong' about it all; Cambell and Cummings are just doing their jobs.

I would also hope that a top advisor does have an influence, useless paying someone who has no effct!

The point is that the politician must decide which advice he takes, and which he leaves, or moderates.

And it is the politician that takes the responsibility........do we ever hear Johnson blaming Cummings? Did Blair ever pass the blame to Campbell?
Keema's Nan
2020-05-21 11:10:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Incubus
Yet none of the hand-wringing Guardian lapdogs complained about the influence
Alastair Cambell had on Blair's government. It's just the Left doing what
the
Left does best - sniping at their opponents without so much as a glance in the
mirror.
I don't agree with the principle one wrong justifies another. But in this
case I don't understand what is 'Wrong' about it all; Cambell and Cummings
are just doing their jobs.
Just as you are, but at least we know what their jobs entail - unlike you and
yours which you appear to want to keep secret.
Post by Roger
I would also hope that a top advisor does have an influence, useless paying
someone who has no effct!
The point is that the politician must decide which advice he takes, and which
he leaves, or moderates.
And it is the politician that takes the responsibility........do we ever hear
Johnson blaming Cummings? Did Blair ever pass the blame to Campbell?
Incubus
2020-05-21 16:18:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Incubus
Yet none of the hand-wringing Guardian lapdogs complained about the influence
Alastair Cambell had on Blair's government. It's just the Left doing what the
Left does best - sniping at their opponents without so much as a glance in the
mirror.
I don't agree with the principle one wrong justifies another. But in this case I don't understand what is 'Wrong' about it all; Cambell and Cummings are just doing their jobs.
I would also hope that a top advisor does have an influence, useless paying someone who has no effct!
The point is that the politician must decide which advice he takes, and which he leaves, or moderates.
And it is the politician that takes the responsibility........do we ever hear Johnson blaming Cummings? Did Blair ever pass the blame to Campbell?
Precisely. Judging by comments on Guardian articles on FB, however, one would
think that Cummings is an unelected dictator.
Pamela
2020-05-22 10:26:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by Roger
Post by Incubus
Yet none of the hand-wringing Guardian lapdogs complained about the
influence Alastair Cambell had on Blair's government. It's just the
Left doing what the Left does best - sniping at their opponents
without so much as a glance in the mirror.
I don't agree with the principle one wrong justifies another. But in
this case I don't understand what is 'Wrong' about it all; Cambell and
Cummings are just doing their jobs.
I would also hope that a top advisor does have an influence, useless
paying someone who has no effct!
The point is that the politician must decide which advice he takes, and
which he leaves, or moderates.
And it is the politician that takes the responsibility........do we
ever hear Johnson blaming Cummings? Did Blair ever pass the blame to
Campbell?
Precisely. Judging by comments on Guardian articles on FB, however, one
would think that Cummings is an unelected dictator.
That puts it rather well. Perhaps you don't want to admit his huge influence
on Boris.
abelard
2020-05-21 12:15:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 21 May 2020 10:35:46 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Yet none of the hand-wringing Guardian lapdogs complained about the influence
Alastair Cambell had on Blair's government. It's just the Left doing what the
Left does best - sniping at their opponents without so much as a glance in the
mirror.
let alone, at reality
--
www.abelard.org
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-21 10:52:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides
Wher do you get this idea from that Dominic Cummings is some kind of
Tory supremo. He is not. He is a political adviser and a very shrewd and
able one but he is but one of dozens who are on an hours notice if it
comes to it. He doesn't even have a voice at the cabinet table.
If Boris really wanted him in government he could have him. All he would
have to do is find a safe tory seat elevate the incumbent to the peerage
and make Cummings the Tory candidate.
But neither would want that. Neither Cuumings nor Johnson would want the
former encumbered by parliamentary and/or constituency work.
Those close to No.10 observe that Dominic Cummings is hugely influential on
what this government does. Much more so than Peter Mandelson.
Cummings is credited with much of the Brexit referendum campaign and its
successful outcome. He's now observed to have a lot of sway on Brexit policy
and the discussions. His current plan for the civil service seems unopposed
by Boris and sends shivers down many spines. And there are those who ask why
Cummings attends a Covid scientific advisory group if it isn't to exert his
influence.
The following means Cummings is a sufficient power behind the Prime Minister
"Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides"
Except that we live under cabinet government. Where Secretaries of State do expect to be taken seriously over matters concerning their own portfolios.It's very unlikely that any SoS most or all of whom can be expected to have political ambitions themselves, would remain in the shadow of any political adviser for very long. They'd be off as Sajid Javid was!

His day may be yet to come or may already have gone. Who knows? Whatever the case, he is going to be nobody's puppet!
Pamela
2020-05-21 12:34:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides
Wher do you get this idea from that Dominic Cummings is some kind of
Tory supremo. He is not. He is a political adviser and a very shrewd
an
d
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
able one but he is but one of dozens who are on an hours notice if it
comes to it. He doesn't even have a voice at the cabinet table.
If Boris really wanted him in government he could have him. All he
woul
d
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
have to do is find a safe tory seat elevate the incumbent to the
peerag
e
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
and make Cummings the Tory candidate.
But neither would want that. Neither Cuumings nor Johnson would want
th
e
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
former encumbered by parliamentary and/or constituency work.
Those close to No.10 observe that Dominic Cummings is hugely
influential on what this government does. Much more so than Peter
Mandelson.
Cummings is credited with much of the Brexit referendum campaign and
its successful outcome. He's now observed to have a lot of sway on
Brexit policy and the discussions. His current plan for the civil
service seems unopposed by Boris and sends shivers down many spines.
And there are those who ask why Cummings attends a Covid scientific
advisory group if it isn't to exert his influence.
The following means Cummings is a sufficient power behind the Prime
Minister to influence political outcomes largely by blowing in Boris's
"Let's see what Prime Minister, I mean, political adviser Dominic decides"
Except that we live under cabinet government. Where Secretaries of State
do expect to be taken seriously over matters concerning their own
portfolios.It's very unlikely that any SoS most or all of whom can be
expected to have political ambitions themselves, would remain in the
shadow of any political adviser for very long. They'd be off as Sajid
Javid was!
His day may be yet to come or may already have gone. Who knows? Whatever
the case, he is going to be nobody's puppet!
The whole point is that organisation structures like the Cabinet count for
little when you've got a Rasputin in thw wings. His name is Cummings.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-22 15:20:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
The whole point is that organisation structures like the Cabinet count for
little when you've got a Rasputin in the wings. His name is Cummings.
But he is no Rasputin. In any case, Rasputin exerted his influence on the Russian Royal Family through the Tsarina Alexandra on the pretext that he held curative powers with regard to her son Alexi. Cummings would have nothing to do with anything like that.

He is an adviser pure and simple and, as the title suggests advisers do just that; but they are never responsible for final decisions.
Pamela
2020-05-22 15:30:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
The whole point is that organisation structures like the Cabinet count
for little when you've got a Rasputin in the wings. His name is
Cummings.
But he is no Rasputin. In any case, Rasputin exerted his influence on
the Russian Royal Family through the Tsarina Alexandra on the pretext
that he held curative powers with regard to her son Alexi. Cummings
would have nothing to do with anything like that.
You take the analogy with Rasputin too far. Next you will be saying
Cummings can't be lke rasputin because he doesn't speak Russian.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
He is an adviser pure and simple and, as the title suggests advisers do
just that; but they are never responsible for final decisions.
Cummings is highly influential and many consider his intentions are malign.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-22 19:05:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
The whole point is that organisation structures like the Cabinet count
for little when you've got a Rasputin in the wings. His name is
Cummings.
But he is no Rasputin. In any case, Rasputin exerted his influence on
the Russian Royal Family through the Tsarina Alexandra on the pretext
that he held curative powers with regard to her son Alexi. Cummings
would have nothing to do with anything like that.
You take the analogy with Rasputin too far. Next you will be saying
Cummings can't be lke rasputin because he doesn't speak Russian.
Since he spent 3 years in Russia, he probably did!
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
He is an adviser pure and simple and, as the title suggests advisers do
just that; but they are never responsible for final decisions.
Cummings is highly influential and many consider his intentions are malign.
"Many" that's rather a vague notion!
Roger
2020-05-22 21:22:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
The whole point is that organisation structures like the Cabinet count
for little when you've got a Rasputin in the wings. His name is
Cummings.
But he is no Rasputin. In any case, Rasputin exerted his influence on
the Russian Royal Family through the Tsarina Alexandra on the pretext
that he held curative powers with regard to her son Alexi. Cummings
would have nothing to do with anything like that.
You take the analogy with Rasputin too far. Next you will be saying
Cummings can't be lke rasputin because he doesn't speak Russian.
Since he spent 3 years in Russia, he probably did!
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
He is an adviser pure and simple and, as the title suggests advisers do
just that; but they are never responsible for final decisions.
Cummings is highly influential and many consider his intentions are malign.
"Many" that's rather a vague notion!
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand Boris Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-23 06:11:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
The whole point is that organisation structures like the Cabinet count
for little when you've got a Rasputin in the wings. His name is
Cummings.
But he is no Rasputin. In any case, Rasputin exerted his influence on
the Russian Royal Family through the Tsarina Alexandra on the pretext
that he held curative powers with regard to her son Alexi. Cummings
would have nothing to do with anything like that.
You take the analogy with Rasputin too far. Next you will be saying
Cummings can't be lke rasputin because he doesn't speak Russian.
Since he spent 3 years in Russia, he probably did!
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
He is an adviser pure and simple and, as the title suggests advisers do
just that; but they are never responsible for final decisions.
Cummings is highly influential and many consider his intentions are malign.
"Many" that's rather a vague notion!
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand Boris Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Pamela
2020-05-23 10:48:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
The whole point is that organisation structures like the Cabinet
count for little when you've got a Rasputin in the wings. His
name is Cummings.
But he is no Rasputin. In any case, Rasputin exerted his
influence on the Russian Royal Family through the Tsarina
Alexandra on the pretext that he held curative powers with regard
to her son Alexi. Cummings would have nothing to do with anything
like that.
You take the analogy with Rasputin too far. Next you will be
saying Cummings can't be lke rasputin because he doesn't speak
Russian.
Since he spent 3 years in Russia, he probably did!
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
He is an adviser pure and simple and, as the title suggests
advisers do just that; but they are never responsible for final
decisions.
Cummings is highly influential and many consider his intentions are malign.
"Many" that's rather a vague notion!
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand Boris
Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years ealier.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-23 11:05:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand Boris
Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
But she wasn't standing!

How many more did he get than the Corbyn/McDonnell ticket?

There lies the important difference.
Roger
2020-05-23 12:14:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand Boris
Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
Which means he increased the Tory share of the vote. Hate him as much as you want but he did achieve a landslide victory and, according to YouGov, 57% think he is doing Fairly Well or Very Well as Prime Minister.
Pamela
2020-05-23 13:04:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand
Boris Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
Which means he increased the Tory share of the vote. Hate him as much as
you want but he did achieve a landslide victory and, according to
YouGov, 57% think he is doing Fairly Well or Very Well as Prime
Minister.
The point I was making is Boris's landslide victory was not due to his appeal
to voters but to the failure of the opposition.

In others words, Boris got very lucky through no merit of his own nor his
policies.
Roger
2020-05-23 13:25:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Roger
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand
Boris Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
Which means he increased the Tory share of the vote. Hate him as much as
you want but he did achieve a landslide victory and, according to
YouGov, 57% think he is doing Fairly Well or Very Well as Prime
Minister.
The point I was making is Boris's landslide victory was not due to his appeal
to voters but to the failure of the opposition.
In others words, Boris got very lucky through no merit of his own nor his
policies.
You'll never admit he won a landslide election victory will you :D

You sound like the die hard Nazis who complain that the Allies only won the war because the Nazis could not build the machinery they needed due to the factories being bombed.

Johnsons victory was because when he said 'Get Brexit Done' people believed he would do it, and not be bogged down by idiots moaning about the risk of running out of bog rolls.

He is living up to expectations; some people don't seem to realise they are criticising him for the very attributes that got him elected.....they don't want slick speeches or political correctness, they want somebody who wades in with a barge pole and does SOMETHING!
Ian Jackson
2020-05-23 15:17:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roger
You'll never admit he won a landslide election victory will you :D
In the staunch Labour areas, loads of voters didn't hesitate in saying
that because of Jeremy Corbyn, they simply could not possibly vote
Labour. Many also felt that the Liberal party was for too wishy-washy
(nearly as bad as Jeremy Corbyn) - and, of course, pro-EU - to be worthy
of serious consideration. Add to that that these were areas where
immigrants (regardless where they come from - "They've taken all our
jobs") are often not too popular, and it's no mystery as to why many
(often for the first - and possibly last - time in their lives) voted
Tory. Hence the Tory landslide.
--
Ian
Roger
2020-05-23 15:34:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
In the staunch Labour areas, loads of voters didn't hesitate in saying
that because of Jeremy Corbyn, they simply could not possibly vote
Labour. Many also felt that the Liberal party was for too wishy-washy
(nearly as bad as Jeremy Corbyn)
It says it all. Johnson won because he is not 'wishy-washy'.

His reputation for not being 'wishy-washy' was not handed to him on a plate; he earned it.

In his first government he started by saying he was going to go back to Brussels and re-open negotiations. Moaners said in chorus (including here) that he could not do that, Brussels have said they will not reopen negotiations.....but he went and did it.

He also said he wasn't to extend the autumn deadline. He did all he could to not extend it, and prepared for a no deal exit. He was scuppered by parliament who voted against (actually, to be precise they didn't have the courage to vote against, they took the chicken route of voting a motion to force Johnson's hand, believing the plebs would not notice....

....so the plebs awarded him with a majority so he could 'Get Brexit Done' as he promised to.

One day the Labour party will wake up to the fact that they're supposed to be representing the plebs, not doing what they (a bunch of north London pseuds) think is best for the ignorant unwashed hordes.
Farmer Giles
2020-05-23 16:43:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Ian Jackson
In the staunch Labour areas, loads of voters didn't hesitate in saying
that because of Jeremy Corbyn, they simply could not possibly vote
Labour. Many also felt that the Liberal party was for too wishy-washy
(nearly as bad as Jeremy Corbyn)
It says it all. Johnson won because he is not 'wishy-washy'.
His reputation for not being 'wishy-washy' was not handed to him on a plate; he earned it.
In his first government he started by saying he was going to go back to Brussels and re-open negotiations. Moaners said in chorus (including here) that he could not do that, Brussels have said they will not reopen negotiations.....but he went and did it.
He also said he wasn't to extend the autumn deadline. He did all he could to not extend it, and prepared for a no deal exit. He was scuppered by parliament who voted against (actually, to be precise they didn't have the courage to vote against, they took the chicken route of voting a motion to force Johnson's hand, believing the plebs would not notice....
....so the plebs awarded him with a majority so he could 'Get Brexit Done' as he promised to.
One day the Labour party will wake up to the fact that they're supposed to be representing the plebs, not doing what they (a bunch of north London pseuds) think is best for the ignorant unwashed hordes.
That election was all about 'Brexit', and that's why the Tories did so
well. Even so, very few actually believe that Boris Johnson is a genuine
Brexiteer.

It was primarily a vote against those who had attempted to thwart the
will of the majority to leave the EU - that's certainly why I voted
Tory, having done no more than spoil my ballot paper previously.
Pamela
2020-05-23 19:42:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by Roger
Post by Ian Jackson
In the staunch Labour areas, loads of voters didn't hesitate in saying
that because of Jeremy Corbyn, they simply could not possibly vote
Labour. Many also felt that the Liberal party was for too wishy-washy
(nearly as bad as Jeremy Corbyn)
It says it all. Johnson won because he is not 'wishy-washy'.
His reputation for not being 'wishy-washy' was not handed to him on a
plate; he earned it.
In his first government he started by saying he was going to go back to
Brussels and re-open negotiations. Moaners said in chorus (including
here) that he could not do that, Brussels have said they will not
reopen negotiations.....but he went and did it.
He also said he wasn't to extend the autumn deadline. He did all he
could to not extend it, and prepared for a no deal exit. He was
scuppered by parliament who voted against (actually, to be precise they
didn't have the courage to vote against, they took the chicken route of
voting a motion to force Johnson's hand, believing the plebs would not
notice....
....so the plebs awarded him with a majority so he could 'Get Brexit
Done' as he promised to.
One day the Labour party will wake up to the fact that they're supposed
to be representing the plebs, not doing what they (a bunch of north
London pseuds) think is best for the ignorant unwashed hordes.
That election was all about 'Brexit', and that's why the Tories did so
well. Even so, very few actually believe that Boris Johnson is a genuine
Brexiteer.
That's true. Boris is an opportunist whose timing and luck have been
first class.
Post by Farmer Giles
It was primarily a vote against those who had attempted to thwart the
will of the majority to leave the EU - that's certainly why I voted
Tory, having done no more than spoil my ballot paper previously.
Boris and Cummings' lack of political skills mean that negotiating to them
is to hol dout for a highly unreasonable request and then walk it back to
a compromise. It's straight out of Trump's playbook but it
ineffectiveness belongs in the school yard.

This didn't work for Boris's "31 October no ifs no buts" and it hasn't
worked once for Trump. I can't see it working much for Brexit. Anyway,
Boris has always been a Brexit softie.
Ian Jackson
2020-05-23 20:30:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Boris is an opportunist whose timing and luck have been
first class.
Yebbut........
I bet he's now wishing that he didn't have the present problem to deal
with. It's definitely bad luck, and something he didn't bargain for.
--
Ian
Pamela
2020-05-23 20:32:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Pamela
Boris is an opportunist whose timing and luck have been
first class.
Yebbut........
I bet he's now wishing that he didn't have the present problem to deal
with. It's definitely bad luck, and something he didn't bargain for.
Boris's luck ran out. His lucky streak couldn't last for ever.
Roger
2020-05-23 21:04:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Boris's luck ran out. His lucky streak couldn't last for ever.
Oh I don't know, thanks to the Coronavirus we have avoided the Apocolypse projection that would have accompanied the trade talks.

After Covid-19 it's going to be difficult to convince people that an extra bit of paper at the border will bring the country to it's knees :D

Also, there is a feeling all round that maybe we have gone a bit too far with globalisation....
Mark Devon
2020-05-23 22:15:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
So, who's lying re. Cummings? Number 10 or the police? Obviously number 10...again.
Mark Devon
2020-05-24 02:57:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Mel.....quick to attack the Peaks walkers and defend the police droning them and posting the videos everywhere, yet also quick to defend callous Cummings. Hypocrisy and double-standards from our resident Tory, again. Never mind prattling on about Cummings not being in government, MelBoy, none of that washes.
Mark Devon
2020-05-24 08:13:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Only a thick twisted idiot would say that Cummings shouldn't go. Any here?
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-24 09:34:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Devon
Mel.....quick to attack the Peaks walkers and defend the police droning them and posting the videos everywhere, yet also quick to defend callous Cummings. Hypocrisy and double-standards from our resident Tory, again. Never mind prattling on about Cummings not being in government, MelBoy, none of that washes.
I have no reason to defend anyone producing video footage in a public place. Neither should anyone else. Nobody made any attempt to identify those people. the images produced we either deliberately or incidentally were too poor for that

I have a criticism of the police however.

When police officers visit my house they are afforded every courtesy and cooperation. In return I expect everything that is said to be treated in confidence. It is of no business to anyone other than the police themselves and the occupants of that house as to why they are there. There should be no question of public statements made by the police stating the reason why they visited private residential premises except of course when such revelations are part of evidence delivered in open court but nowhere else.

According to a later statement issued on behalf of the police (why?) they visited the premises at the invitation of Mr Cumming's father. He was more concerned by the security implications of the visit rather than any breach of Corvid regulations. It appears Mr Cummings (Jr) was not present at the time of the visit. He was not interviewed or warned and neither was his wife. Perhaps one of the officers mentioned the matter in passing but certainly not to the principal concerned.

So what have we got? AFAIK *voluntary* social isolation is just that. The 'rules' are *advisory* and not the law of the land. Otherwise you have a case for the confinement of the household members of suspected Corvid contacts

Dominic Cummings anticipated a danger with respect to his 4 year old son. As would any reasonable parent, he acted to reduce this danger despite government *advice* to the contrary. That is all he is guilty of.

He should be complimented for actions rather than pilloried which is what all this is really about It's a witch hunt engineered as usual by the 'Remainer element.' It's time we stared to treat them as the socials pariahs they would have us be.

I head a Labour MP yesterday refer to DC as being "still in office" What office? He has no office. I would hope that if he did resign, some well heeled Tory benefactor would step forward to fund him in the work he does well and damn the detractors. It is them we want rid of.
Pamela
2020-05-24 10:00:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Devon
Post by Mark Devon
Mel.....quick to attack the Peaks walkers and defend the police droning
t
hem and posting the videos everywhere, yet also quick to defend callous
Cummings. Hypocrisy and double-standards from our resident Tory, again.
Never mind prattling on about Cummings not being in government, MelBoy,
none of that washes.
I have no reason to defend anyone producing video footage in a public
place. Neither should anyone else. Nobody made any attempt to identify
those people. the images produced we either deliberately or incidentally
were too poor for that
I have a criticism of the police however.
When police officers visit my house they are afforded every courtesy and
cooperation. In return I expect everything that is said to be treated in
confidence. It is of no business to anyone other than the police
themselves and the occupants of that house as to why they are there.
There should be no question of public statements made by the police
stating the reason why they visited private residential premises except
of course when such revelations are part of evidence delivered in open
court but nowhere else.
According to a later statement issued on behalf of the police (why?)
they visited the premises at the invitation of Mr Cumming's father. He
was more concerned by the security implications of the visit rather than
any breach of Corvid regulations. It appears Mr Cummings (Jr) was not
present at the time of the visit. He was not interviewed or warned and
neither was his wife. Perhaps one of the officers mentioned the matter
in passing but certainly not to the principal concerned.
So what have we got? AFAIK *voluntary* social isolation is just that.
The 'rules' are *advisory* and not the law of the land. Otherwise you
have a case for the confinement of the household members of suspected
Corvid contacts
Dominic Cummings anticipated a danger with respect to his 4 year old
son. As would any reasonable parent, he acted to reduce this danger
despite government *advice* to the contrary. That is all he is guilty
of.
He should be complimented for actions rather than pilloried which is
what all this is really about It's a witch hunt engineered as usual by
the 'Remainer element.' It's time we stared to treat them as the socials
pariahs they would have us be.
I head a Labour MP yesterday refer to DC as being "still in office" What
office? He has no office. I would hope that if he did resign, some well
heeled Tory benefactor would step forward to fund him in the work he
does well and damn the detractors. It is them we want rid of.
Dominic Cummings travelled 264 miles and broke several government Covid
instructions specifically designed to save the NHS so it could cope with a
public health emergency -- all allegedly done by Dominic to have a child
minder just in case he became too ill. Ha ha!

Dominic should now step down as a government special advisor, not attend
any more SAGE meetings and be barred from Covid policy discussions.

Meanwhile Boris will have to work on maintaining public compliance for
lockdown and isolation -- in case everyone does what Cummings did.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-24 11:48:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Mark Devon
Post by Mark Devon
Mel.....quick to attack the Peaks walkers and defend the police droning
t
hem and posting the videos everywhere, yet also quick to defend callous
Cummings. Hypocrisy and double-standards from our resident Tory, again.
Never mind prattling on about Cummings not being in government, MelBoy,
none of that washes.
I have no reason to defend anyone producing video footage in a public
place. Neither should anyone else. Nobody made any attempt to identify
those people. the images produced we either deliberately or incidentally
were too poor for that
I have a criticism of the police however.
When police officers visit my house they are afforded every courtesy and
cooperation. In return I expect everything that is said to be treated in
confidence. It is of no business to anyone other than the police
themselves and the occupants of that house as to why they are there.
There should be no question of public statements made by the police
stating the reason why they visited private residential premises except
of course when such revelations are part of evidence delivered in open
court but nowhere else.
According to a later statement issued on behalf of the police (why?)
they visited the premises at the invitation of Mr Cumming's father. He
was more concerned by the security implications of the visit rather than
any breach of Corvid regulations. It appears Mr Cummings (Jr) was not
present at the time of the visit. He was not interviewed or warned and
neither was his wife. Perhaps one of the officers mentioned the matter
in passing but certainly not to the principal concerned.
So what have we got? AFAIK *voluntary* social isolation is just that.
The 'rules' are *advisory* and not the law of the land. Otherwise you
have a case for the confinement of the household members of suspected
Corvid contacts
Dominic Cummings anticipated a danger with respect to his 4 year old
son. As would any reasonable parent, he acted to reduce this danger
despite government *advice* to the contrary. That is all he is guilty
of.
He should be complimented for actions rather than pilloried which is
what all this is really about It's a witch hunt engineered as usual by
the 'Remainer element.' It's time we stared to treat them as the socials
pariahs they would have us be.
I head a Labour MP yesterday refer to DC as being "still in office" What
office? He has no office. I would hope that if he did resign, some well
heeled Tory benefactor would step forward to fund him in the work he
does well and damn the detractors. It is them we want rid of.
Dominic Cummings travelled 264 miles and broke several government Covid
instructions specifically designed to save the NHS so it could cope with a
public health emergency -- all allegedly done by Dominic to have a child
minder just in case he became too ill. Ha ha!
Apparently, while 264 miles away, he also took a day trip to Barnard Castle
on Easter Sunday; as witnessed by a retired teacher (not Rowing obviously)
who has blabbed to the Guardian.
Post by Pamela
Dominic should now step down as a government special advisor, not attend
any more SAGE meetings and be barred from Covid policy discussions.
Meanwhile Boris will have to work on maintaining public compliance for
lockdown and isolation -- in case everyone does what Cummings did.
Everyone else would not have the excuse of ‘don’t you know who I am?’
and ‘I will be speaking to your Chief Constable’, and so would probably
be cautioned and fined by now.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-24 15:07:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Dominic Cummings travelled 264 miles and broke several government Covid
instructions specifically designed to save the NHS so it could cope with a
public health emergency -- all allegedly done by Dominic to have a child
minder just in case he became too ill. Ha ha!
Apparently, while 264 miles away, he also took a day trip to Barnard Castle
on Easter Sunday; as witnessed by a retired teacher (not Rowing obviously)
who has blabbed to the Guardian.
How do you know I was not in Barnard Castle on Easter Sunday? You cannot prove that!One thing in your favour is that I would not have blabbed to the Guardian. I would not tell a journalist the time of day. Isn't it marvellous? A "retired teacher" No name no pack drill no photo. Always a conveniently anonymous prop to support a good story! Did this "retired teacher" know DC personally? This retired teacher wouldn't recognise him in the street.

Why the Guardian? Are they the guardians of our public well being? If he were so concerned then I would have thought the local nick to be more appropriate if he were so concerned.
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Dominic should now step down as a government special advisor, not attend
any more SAGE meetings and be barred from Covid policy discussions.
Meanwhile Boris will have to work on maintaining public compliance for
lockdown and isolation -- in case everyone does what Cummings did.
Everyone else would not have the excuse of ‘don’t you know who I am?’
and ‘I will be speaking to your Chief Constable’, and so would probably
be cautioned and fined by now.
He wouldn't need one. The police didn't speak with him.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-24 15:20:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Dominic Cummings travelled 264 miles and broke several government Covid
instructions specifically designed to save the NHS so it could cope with a
public health emergency -- all allegedly done by Dominic to have a child
minder just in case he became too ill. Ha ha!
Apparently, while 264 miles away, he also took a day trip to Barnard Castle
on Easter Sunday; as witnessed by a retired teacher (not Rowing obviously)
who has blabbed to the Guardian.
How do you know I was not in Barnard Castle on Easter Sunday? You cannot
prove that!One thing in your favour is that I would not have blabbed to the
Guardian. I would not tell a journalist the time of day. Isn't it marvellous?
A "retired teacher" No name no pack drill no photo. Always a conveniently
anonymous prop to support a good story! Did this "retired teacher" know DC
personally? This retired teacher wouldn't recognise him in the street.
Why the Guardian? Are they the guardians of our public well being? If he were
so concerned then I would have thought the local nick to be more appropriate
if he were so concerned.
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Dominic should now step down as a government special advisor, not attend
any more SAGE meetings and be barred from Covid policy discussions.
Meanwhile Boris will have to work on maintaining public compliance for
lockdown and isolation -- in case everyone does what Cummings did.
Everyone else would not have the excuse of ‘don’t you know who I am?’
and ‘I will be speaking to your Chief Constable’, and so would probably
be cautioned and fined by now.
He wouldn't need one. The police didn't speak with him.
They spoke to his father -

“On Tuesday, March 31, our officers were made aware that Dominic Cummings
had travelled from London to Durham and was present at an address in the
city.

“At the request of Mr Cummings’ father, an officer made contact the
following morning by telephone.

“During that conversation, Mr Cummings’ father confirmed that his son had
travelled with his family from London to the North East and was
self-isolating in part of the property.

“Durham Constabulary deemed that no further action was required. However,
the officer did provide advice in relation to security issues.”

Unfortunately for you, the previous head of Durham Constabulary has waded in
on the subject -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/defence-of-dominic-cummings-
is-shameful-says-ex-durham-police-chief

And implies that you, (and everyone else) trying to defend him to the hilt as
per on-message instructions; are a hypocrite.

But we knew that already.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-24 15:50:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Dominic Cummings travelled 264 miles and broke several government Covid
instructions specifically designed to save the NHS so it could cope with a
public health emergency -- all allegedly done by Dominic to have a child
minder just in case he became too ill. Ha ha!
Apparently, while 264 miles away, he also took a day trip to Barnard Castle
on Easter Sunday; as witnessed by a retired teacher (not Rowing obviously)
who has blabbed to the Guardian.
How do you know I was not in Barnard Castle on Easter Sunday? You cannot
prove that!One thing in your favour is that I would not have blabbed to the
Guardian. I would not tell a journalist the time of day. Isn't it marvellous?
A "retired teacher" No name no pack drill no photo. Always a conveniently
anonymous prop to support a good story! Did this "retired teacher" know DC
personally? This retired teacher wouldn't recognise him in the street.
Why the Guardian? Are they the guardians of our public well being? If he were
so concerned then I would have thought the local nick to be more appropriate
if he were so concerned.
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Dominic should now step down as a government special advisor, not attend
any more SAGE meetings and be barred from Covid policy discussions.
Meanwhile Boris will have to work on maintaining public compliance for
lockdown and isolation -- in case everyone does what Cummings did.
Everyone else would not have the excuse of ‘don’t you know who I am?’
and ‘I will be speaking to your Chief Constable’, and so would probably
be cautioned and fined by now.
He wouldn't need one. The police didn't speak with him.
They spoke to his father -
“On Tuesday, March 31, our officers were made aware that Dominic Cummings
had travelled from London to Durham and was present at an address in the
city.
“At the request of Mr Cummings’ father, an officer made contact the
following morning by telephone.
“During that conversation, Mr Cummings’ father confirmed that his son had
travelled with his family from London to the North East and was
self-isolating in part of the property.
“Durham Constabulary deemed that no further action was required. However,
the officer did provide advice in relation to security issues.”
Unfortunately for you, the previous head of Durham Constabulary has waded in
on the subject -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/defence-of-dominic-cummings-
is-shameful-says-ex-durham-police-chief
And implies that you, (and everyone else) trying to defend him to the hilt as
per on-message instructions; are a hypocrite.
But we knew that already.
You may say that but I couldn't possibly comment
Keema's Nan
2020-05-24 16:04:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Dominic Cummings travelled 264 miles and broke several government Covid
instructions specifically designed to save the NHS so it could cope with a
public health emergency -- all allegedly done by Dominic to have a child
minder just in case he became too ill. Ha ha!
Apparently, while 264 miles away, he also took a day trip to Barnard Castle
on Easter Sunday; as witnessed by a retired teacher (not Rowing obviously)
who has blabbed to the Guardian.
How do you know I was not in Barnard Castle on Easter Sunday? You cannot
prove that!One thing in your favour is that I would not have blabbed to the
Guardian. I would not tell a journalist the time of day. Isn't it marvellous?
A "retired teacher" No name no pack drill no photo. Always a conveniently
anonymous prop to support a good story! Did this "retired teacher" know DC
personally? This retired teacher wouldn't recognise him in the street.
Why the Guardian? Are they the guardians of our public well being? If he were
so concerned then I would have thought the local nick to be more appropriate
if he were so concerned.
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Pamela
Dominic should now step down as a government special advisor, not attend
any more SAGE meetings and be barred from Covid policy discussions.
Meanwhile Boris will have to work on maintaining public compliance for
lockdown and isolation -- in case everyone does what Cummings did.
Everyone else would not have the excuse of ‘don’t you know who I am?’
and ‘I will be speaking to your Chief Constable’, and so would probably
be cautioned and fined by now.
He wouldn't need one. The police didn't speak with him.
They spoke to his father -
“On Tuesday, March 31, our officers were made aware that Dominic Cummings
had travelled from London to Durham and was present at an address in the
city.
“At the request of Mr Cummings’ father, an officer made contact the
following morning by telephone.
“During that conversation, Mr Cummings’ father confirmed that his son had
travelled with his family from London to the North East and was
self-isolating in part of the property.
“Durham Constabulary deemed that no further action was required. However,
the officer did provide advice in relation to security issues.”
Unfortunately for you, the previous head of Durham Constabulary has waded in
on the subject -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/defence-of-dominic-cummings
-
is-shameful-says-ex-durham-police-chief
And implies that you, (and everyone else) trying to defend him to the hilt as
per on-message instructions; are a hypocrite.
But we knew that already.
You may say that but I couldn't possibly comment
I didn’t say it. Durham Police did.

Given your previous views on replying 'no comment’ to questions posed by
the police, I will draw my own conclusions.
Mark Devon
2020-05-24 16:41:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The former chief constable of Durham police has launched a strident attack on Dominic Cummings and the government defending him, branding them self-privileged hypocrites who have damaged the fight against coronavirus at a time of national emergency.
Mark Devon
2020-05-24 15:35:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
((The police didn't speak with him))

Are you suggesting the police are incompetent?
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-24 15:48:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Devon
((The police didn't speak with him))
Are you suggesting the police are incompetent?
No! Simply that DC was not there! He was probably next door self isolating.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-24 15:54:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Mark Devon
((The police didn't speak with him))
Are you suggesting the police are incompetent?
No! Simply that DC was not there! He was probably next door self isolating.
He was in Barnard Castle, and the retired chemistry teacher has a shot of his
number plate on his phone to prove it.

Expect over the next few days to hear of a mysterious burglary at the house
of a retired chemistry teacher from the Durham area, where all his valuables
were ignored but the thief stole computers, laptops, memory sticks and mobile
phones.

That is how it works in third-world-sewer Britain these days.
Roger
2020-05-24 18:23:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Devon
So, who's lying re. Cummings? Number 10 or the police? Obviously number 10...again.
I suspect none....it's the papers.

Note that Cummings admitted making one journey to a house near his family to isolate.

Police say they visited Cummings father.

Nobody disagrees with this.

As this was not dramatic enough, the papers then spiced it up with claims that he was seen around Barnard Castle and that he went up and down at least twice to London. Cummings says these claims are false.

I would suspect that it's quite easy for Cummings to demonstrate his activity, and therefore they will let it roll till the papers end up with egg on their face.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-24 18:30:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Mark Devon
So, who's lying re. Cummings? Number 10 or the police? Obviously number 10...again.
I suspect none....it's the papers.
Note that Cummings admitted making one journey to a house near his family to isolate.
In which case he is lying... twice.

He was seen in Barnard Castle on Easter Sunday, and the witness checked the
car number plate just to be sure.

He then drove back to London the following day, having off loaded his wife
and child.
Post by Roger
Police say they visited Cummings father.
Nobody disagrees with this.
I do.

Police say that telephoned the father.
Post by Roger
As this was not dramatic enough, the papers then spiced it up with claims
that he was seen around Barnard Castle
Yes, the witness will have an ‘unfortunate accident’ shortly.
Post by Roger
and that he went up and down at least
twice to London. Cummings says these claims are false.
Lies, to cover the initial lies.
Post by Roger
I would suspect that it's quite easy for Cummings to demonstrate his
activity, and therefore they will let it roll till the papers end up with egg
on their face.
Want a bet?

If you lose, you resign from your foreign office job?

If you win, you keep it.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-24 18:33:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Roger
Post by Mark Devon
So, who's lying re. Cummings? Number 10 or the police? Obviously number 10...again.
I suspect none....it's the papers.
Note that Cummings admitted making one journey to a house near his family to isolate.
In which case he is lying... twice.
He was seen in Barnard Castle on Easter Sunday, and the witness checked the
car number plate just to be sure.
He then drove back to London the following day, having off loaded his wife
and child.
Just to prevent you shills calling me a liar

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-04-14/dominic-cummings-coronavirus/
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Roger
Police say they visited Cummings father.
Nobody disagrees with this.
I do.
Police say that telephoned the father.
Post by Roger
As this was not dramatic enough, the papers then spiced it up with claims
that he was seen around Barnard Castle
Yes, the witness will have an ‘unfortunate accident’ shortly.
Post by Roger
and that he went up and down at least
twice to London. Cummings says these claims are false.
Lies, to cover the initial lies.
Post by Roger
I would suspect that it's quite easy for Cummings to demonstrate his
activity, and therefore they will let it roll till the papers end up with egg
on their face.
Want a bet?
If you lose, you resign from your foreign office job?
If you win, you keep it.
Roger
2020-05-23 20:59:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
This didn't work for Boris's "31 October no ifs no buts" and it hasn't
worked once for Trump. I can't see it working much for Brexit. Anyway,
Boris has always been a Brexit softie.
Parliament tried to comprise Johnson into a corner. He called an election and got his own pet parliament. If that's not a political victory I don't know what is.
Pamela
2020-05-23 19:36:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
Post by Roger
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand
Boris Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
Which means he increased the Tory share of the vote. Hate him as much
a
s
Post by Pamela
Post by Roger
you want but he did achieve a landslide victory and, according to
YouGov, 57% think he is doing Fairly Well or Very Well as Prime
Minister.
The point I was making is Boris's landslide victory was not due to his
ap
peal
Post by Pamela
to voters but to the failure of the opposition.
In others words, Boris got very lucky through no merit of his own nor his
policies.
You'll never admit he won a landslide election victory will you :D
You sound like the die hard Nazis who complain that the Allies only won
the war because the Nazis could not build the machinery they needed due
to the factories being bombed.
Johnsons victory was because when he said 'Get Brexit Done' people
believed he would do it, and not be bogged down by idiots moaning about
the risk of running out of bog rolls.
He is living up to expectations; some people don't seem to realise they
are criticising him for the very attributes that got him
elected.....they don't want slick speeches or political correctness,
they want somebody who wades in with a barge pole and does SOMETHING!
Boris won a landslide victory and gained a stupendous mandate. That's
clear.

We're discussing something else. Boris's victory was largely achieved by
a thoroughly incompetent and unattractive Corbyn opposition. Boris's wild
promises, modelled on Trump's bizarre 2016 campaign, also played their
part.

Within months of taking power Boris has demonstrated his trademark
incompetence, laziness and unwillingness to accept responsibility. His
initial footdragging in dealing with Covid cost lives.

No wonder he's staying out the picture right now, while others front the
reponse to Covid.
Roger
2020-05-23 20:56:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
We're discussing something else. Boris's victory was largely achieved by
a thoroughly incompetent and unattractive Corbyn opposition. Boris's wild
promises, modelled on Trump's bizarre 2016 campaign, also played their
part.
And I'm not in agreement. I think Boris gained a victory because a made a clear pledge to do something concrete, and he had already demonstrated his resolve.
Post by Pamela
Within months of taking power Boris has demonstrated his trademark
incompetence, laziness and unwillingness to accept responsibility. His
initial footdragging in dealing with Covid cost lives.
These are your hypothesis without basis in fact. People are more weary of fake news and draw their own conclusions.
Post by Pamela
No wonder he's staying out the picture right now, while others front the
reponse to Covid.
When he's not hiding he's hogging the limelight, doing it all himself and 'making party political broadcasts' by hosting the Covid update (accusations made in this ng whenever he appears).

Make your mind up.
Pamela
2020-05-23 16:44:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand Boris
Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
But she wasn't standing!
How many more did he get than the Corbyn/McDonnell ticket?
There lies the important difference.
A 1 percent increase is hardly a stunning vote of confidence in Boris and
Brexit.

With that number of voters, Theresa May couldn't even get a majority.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-23 19:57:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand Boris
Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
But she wasn't standing!
How many more did he get than the Corbyn/McDonnell ticket?
There lies the important difference.
A 1 percent increase is hardly a stunning vote of confidence in Boris and
Brexit.
With that number of voters, Theresa May couldn't even get a majority.
Where did you get the 1% form You were quoting Yougov weren't you?

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/likelihood-to-vote-conservative-in-the-next-general-election
Pamela
2020-05-23 20:00:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand
Boris Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
But she wasn't standing!
How many more did he get than the Corbyn/McDonnell ticket?
There lies the important difference.
A 1 percent increase is hardly a stunning vote of confidence in Boris
and Brexit.
With that number of voters, Theresa May couldn't even get a majority.
Where did you get the 1% form You were quoting Yougov weren't you?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/likelihood-to-vote-conserva
tive-in-the-next-general-election
UK votes for Conservatives in 2017 = 13,636,684
UK votes for Conservatives in 2019 = 13,966,451

That's almost exactly a 1% increase.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-23 21:02:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand
Boris Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
But she wasn't standing!
How many more did he get than the Corbyn/McDonnell ticket?
There lies the important difference.
A 1 percent increase is hardly a stunning vote of confidence in Boris
and Brexit.
With that number of voters, Theresa May couldn't even get a majority.
Where did you get the 1% form You were quoting Yougov weren't you?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/likelihood-to-vote-conserva
tive-in-the-next-general-election
UK votes for Conservatives in 2017 = 13,636,684
UK votes for Conservatives in 2019 = 13,966,451
That's almost exactly a 1% increase.
2019 election result (the one that counts)

no of votes cast:

Conservative 13,966,451

Labour 10,295,912

% Difference Conservative +13.5%
Pamela
2020-05-24 10:03:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Roger
Well that 'many' would actually be the people who can't stand
Boris Johnson, which according you YouGov is currently 19%.
You mean the ones who didn't vote for him at the last election?
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
But she wasn't standing!
How many more did he get than the Corbyn/McDonnell ticket?
There lies the important difference.
A 1 percent increase is hardly a stunning vote of confidence in
Boris and Brexit.
With that number of voters, Theresa May couldn't even get a majority.
Where did you get the 1% form You were quoting Yougov weren't you?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/likelihood-to-
vote-conserva tive-in-the-next-general-election
UK votes for Conservatives in 2017 = 13,636,684
UK votes for Conservatives in 2019 = 13,966,451
That's almost exactly a 1% increase.
2019 election result (the one that counts)
Conservative 13,966,451
Labour 10,295,912
% Difference Conservative +13.5%
You asked me where I got the 1% increase I quoted and I showed you.

The outcome of the election (which you are talking about) and the change
in government support (which I was talking about) are not the same thing.

However the 1% I referred to is accurate. It shows little greater appeal
for Boris and his policies than for Teresa May.
Mark Devon
2020-05-24 10:39:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Many Tory MPs now calling on Cummings to go. Not surprising. What an idiot.... he'll always be remembered this way, as will those who have defended the indefensible.
Mark Devon
2020-05-24 10:47:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
“When an adviser becomes the story, the adviser has to go,”.....Peter Bone.
Like Doughnut Donnie had any credentials in the first place. What?..... attending SAGE meetings?.....what a joke. Almost as much of a joke as BonZo. Like Baldilocks Donnie has any scientific capabilities! Lol
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-24 11:14:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
But she wasn't standing!
How many more did he get than the Corbyn/McDonnell ticket?
There lies the important difference.
A 1 percent increase is hardly a stunning vote of confidence in
Boris and Brexit.
With that number of voters, Theresa May couldn't even get a majority.
Where did you get the 1% form You were quoting Yougov weren't you?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/likelihood-to-
vote-conserva tive-in-the-next-general-election
UK votes for Conservatives in 2017 = 13,636,684
UK votes for Conservatives in 2019 = 13,966,451
That's almost exactly a 1% increase.
2019 election result (the one that counts)
Conservative 13,966,451
Labour 10,295,912
% Difference Conservative +13.5%
You asked me where I got the 1% increase I quoted and I showed you.
The outcome of the election (which you are talking about) and the change
in government support (which I was talking about) are not the same thing.
However the 1% I referred to is accurate. It shows little greater appeal
for Boris and his policies than for Teresa May.
You are joking!

Two elections 2 years apart neither candidate standing in both!

How can you make any comparison from such data. It's contrived.

You failed to add that Boris was favourite to win the election in which they both were involved the 2016 election for the Tory party leadership. Boris was forced to withdraw after Gove, his proposer, withdrew his support.

There is every reason to believe that had that election run its predicted course Boris would have become PM then and the whole Bexit debacle probably avoided.

However, you cannot make make such assertions on the basis of contests that never took place which is precisely what you did!
Pamela
2020-05-24 11:23:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Boris only got 1% more votes than Teresa may did two years earlier.
But she wasn't standing!
How many more did he get than the Corbyn/McDonnell ticket?
There lies the important difference.
A 1 percent increase is hardly a stunning vote of confidence in
Boris and Brexit.
With that number of voters, Theresa May couldn't even get a majority.
Where did you get the 1% form You were quoting Yougov weren't you?
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/likelihood-to-
vote-conserva tive-in-the-next-general-election
UK votes for Conservatives in 2017 = 13,636,684
UK votes for Conservatives in 2019 = 13,966,451
That's almost exactly a 1% increase.
2019 election result (the one that counts)
Conservative 13,966,451
Labour 10,295,912
% Difference Conservative +13.5%
You asked me where I got the 1% increase I quoted and I showed you.
The outcome of the election (which you are talking about) and the
change in government support (which I was talking about) are not the
same thing.
However the 1% I referred to is accurate. It shows little greater
appeal for Boris and his policies than for Teresa May.
You are joking!
Two elections 2 years apart neither candidate standing in both!
How can you make any comparison from such data. It's contrived.
That's the very point. There were two different candidates and yet Boris
got almost exactly as many votes as Theresa May. My original claim that
Boris got only 1% more of the vote still stands.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
You failed to add that Boris was favourite to win the election in which
they both were involved the 2016 election for the Tory party leadership.
Boris was forced to withdraw after Gove, his proposer, withdrew his
support.
There is every reason to believe that had that election run its
predicted course Boris would have become PM then and the whole Bexit
debacle probably avoided.
However, you cannot make make such assertions on the basis of contests
that never took place which is precisely what you did!
There are various other factors but none can hide the fact that Boris's
appeal was surprisingly limited as seen in the vote.

Interestingly the turnout for the 2019 election was a couple of percent
lower than in 2017, when you would have guessed the national interest in
voting about Brexit was greater. Presumably this is another example of
the lack of support for Corbyn, which is the real factor that got Boris
leected.
Mark Devon
2020-05-23 18:04:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
((There lies the important difference.))

The identification of differences is something you don't excel in, Cummings defender.
Pamela
2020-05-23 10:44:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
The whole point is that organisation structures like the Cabinet
count for little when you've got a Rasputin in the wings. His name
is Cummings.
But he is no Rasputin. In any case, Rasputin exerted his influence on
the Russian Royal Family through the Tsarina Alexandra on the pretext
that he held curative powers with regard to her son Alexi. Cummings
would have nothing to do with anything like that.
You take the analogy with Rasputin too far. Next you will be saying
Cummings can't be lke rasputin because he doesn't speak Russian.
Since he spent 3 years in Russia, he probably did!
Exactly. So the differences between Cummings abd Rasputin become smaller.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
He is an adviser pure and simple and, as the title suggests advisers
do just that; but they are never responsible for final decisions.
Cummings is highly influential and many consider his intentions are malign.
"Many" that's rather a vague notion!
"Many" include all the informed media analysts commenting on his lockdown
travels.
Roger
2020-05-20 18:25:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe
On Wed, 20 May 2020 10:01:56 +0100
Post by Keema's Nan
unions who
have demanded a less politically biased and more nationalistic
government from now on -
I don't believe that for a second. There are few unions more
politically biased than the teachers', and they are very firmly wedded
to The Narrative, in fact they teach it.
As you know, according to The Narrative, nationalism is synonymous with
racism, which has been turned into the most serious accusation which
can be made against anyone.
--
Joe
I think we are now in the realms of 'anti-nationalism'; It's like the're on a mission to make the nation fail :D
Joe
2020-05-20 19:48:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 20 May 2020 11:25:51 -0700 (PDT)
Post by Roger
Post by Joe
On Wed, 20 May 2020 10:01:56 +0100
Post by Keema's Nan
unions who
have demanded a less politically biased and more nationalistic
government from now on -
I don't believe that for a second. There are few unions more
politically biased than the teachers', and they are very firmly
wedded to The Narrative, in fact they teach it.
As you know, according to The Narrative, nationalism is synonymous
with racism, which has been turned into the most serious accusation
which can be made against anyone.
--
Joe
I think we are now in the realms of 'anti-nationalism'; It's like
the're on a mission to make the nation fail :D
Only the Western ones. I'm not aware of any attempt to criticise
nationalism in the East, in Africa or in South America. Nobody is
trying to push African migrants into Japan, China etc.
--
Joe
Roger
2020-05-20 20:55:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe
Only the Western ones. I'm not aware of any attempt to criticise
nationalism in the East, in Africa or in South America. Nobody is
trying to push African migrants into Japan, China etc.
--
Joe
Yes, the Japanese are very proud their country; Japanese first goes without saying.

The Chinese are required to be nationalist by law :D

There were long campaigns in the West to write off third world debt and allow Allow African countries to break free.....then china came along and enslaved them with new debt.

And yet we don't criticise China because it's too much like Trump. I can't stand Trump either and think he's an idiot....but even idiots can get some right answers in multi choice tests; the common nll (north London Labourists) policy of being against anything that their enemies are in favour off frequently does not make sense!
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-20 18:42:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Farmer Giles
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.
Is that what you did?
abelard
2020-05-20 20:08:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.
Is that what you did?
he's not all bad...nobody is...

he's just incredibly boring!
--
www.abelard.org
Farmer Giles
2020-05-21 06:51:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.
Is that what you did?
It's quite a few years since any on my children were at school, but even
so we did consider home-schooling for them at on time.

Thankfully, we were largely able to counter most of the nonsense that
so-called teachers tried to fill their heads with. So they have grown up
with an objective view of the world, not the one that the third-rate
minds of most teachers were employed to propagate.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-22 08:51:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.
Is that what you did?
It's quite a few years since any on my children were at school, but even
so we did consider home-schooling for them at on time. This raises a number
Often middle class parents opt for the middle of the rad approach employing a home tutor. I have been approached myself quite a few lessons but have always refused. I have never delivered a private lesson in my life I like to think that any child for whom I am entrusted gets the best I can offer whether that is adequate or not. I tell parents that whenever the subject is broached.
Yes I do believe in private education wherever parents if that's what parents want and can afford However, that is a different argument altogether. For me it is a matter of personal freedom as to what one does with their own money.
However, that aside, I think it would be appropriate to mention that every developed country on earth as well as many of the developing ones have established state focussed education systems That means reliance essentially on a state funded system. As far as I am aware, though many children in this world go uneducated, not one country that I am aware of at any rate that relies entirely upon ad hoc homespun solutions. This does not mean of course that state funded systems of schooling are the ideal but that they are the best solution to a need thus devised.
Now let us look at the example of your son. According to what you have said here abut him to say he is quite a bright lad s an understatement. Not every family has an Oxbridge graduate in its midst. Mine certainly has not! However, you then sat there and tell me that you are quite confident that you could develop this to talent right from reception to pre-university level using no more than the resources of you own home and family. I’m telling you I, with 40 years teaching experience that I couldn’t do it and neither could you. Although you do present here an above average degree of articulation suggesting an education to some level like me you simply lack the breadth of knowledge. What are your foreign language skills like? How about science? How about maths? Art etc. Schools particularly secondary schools recruit specialists to fill these roles.

It even goes deeper than that. We no longer live in rural villages comprising of a small number of family bubbles. We live in far more complex social and, dare I say it, diverse societies. In going to school children meet up with children from a huge range of backgrounds. They must befriend or otherwise interact and socially negotiate with these others. The best way to reduce social disparities is through common experience. All these processes go on between lessons, on the way to and from school, in the playground, on the corridors, the sports field, the school bus, drams (dancing around and messing about as the kids call it!) and so on. These are valuable functions that cannot be replicated within the home setting.
In short children go to school to safely experience the world they will eventually live in. and not the family bubble they are brought up in.

In days of yore children learned what they needed to know at the elbows of parents. Before the age when we would be considering sending them to school, would already be in employment of some kind whether mundane or not. The net result was that such societies atrophied and society changed hardly at all ‘ It was the agrarian and industrial revolutions that changed all that!
Post by Farmer Giles
Thankfully, we were largely able to counter most of the nonsense that
so-called teachers tried to fill their heads with. So they have grown up
with an objective view of the world, not the one that the third-rate
minds of most teachers were employed to propagate.
You talk as though teachers have nothing to do except propagate social mores of one type or another. It does not happen! I am a science teacher. People may have their views as to what I should be required and not required to teach.
One thing they cannot do is alter the rules of Natural Science. I am therefore safe from interference of the kind you fear.

Yes a small part of my duties involved what is euphemistically called sex education. I did what I was paid to do but never found it necessary to venture into the field of sexual deviance.

My lessons were purely factual and physiological in content. I was once questioned by one of HMI of schools in that I had neglected to present the ‘Gay perspective’ I answered, “I am not gay” If they are curious regarding such matters then they would be better served by asking someone who was!
abelard
2020-05-22 11:41:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.
Is that what you did?
It's quite a few years since any on my children were at school, but even
so we did consider home-schooling for them at on time. This raises a number
Often middle class parents opt for the middle of the rad approach employing a home tutor. I have been approached myself quite a few lessons but have always refused. I have never delivered a private lesson in my life I like to think that any child for whom I am entrusted gets the best I can offer whether that is adequate or not. I tell parents that whenever the subject is broached.
Yes I do believe in private education wherever parents if that's what parents want and can afford However, that is a different argument altogether. For me it is a matter of personal freedom as to what one does with their own money.
However, that aside, I think it would be appropriate to mention that every developed country on earth as well as many of the developing ones have established state focussed education systems That means reliance essentially on a state funded system. As far as I am aware, though many children in this world go uneducated, not one country that I am aware of at any rate that relies entirely upon ad hoc homespun solutions. This does not mean of course that state funded systems of schooling are the ideal but that they are the best solution to a need thus devised.
Now let us look at the example of your son. According to what you have said here abut him to say he is quite a bright lad s an understatement. Not every family has an Oxbridge graduate in its midst. Mine certainly has not! However, you then sat there and tell me that you are quite confident that you could develop this to talent right from reception to pre-university level using no more than the resources of you own home and family. I’m telling you I, with 40 years teaching experience that I couldn’t do it and neither could you. Although you do present here an above average degree of articulation suggesting an education to some level like me you simply lack the breadth of knowledge. What are your foreign language skills like? How about science? How about maths? Art etc. Schools particularly secondary schools recruit specialists to fill these roles.
It even goes deeper than that. We no longer live in rural villages comprising of a small number of family bubbles. We live in far more complex social and, dare I say it, diverse societies. In going to school children meet up with children from a huge range of backgrounds. They must befriend or otherwise interact and socially negotiate with these others. The best way to reduce social disparities is through common experience. All these processes go on between lessons, on the way to and from school, in the playground, on the corridors, the sports field, the school bus, drams (dancing around and messing about as the kids call it!) and so on. These are valuable functions that cannot be replicated within the home setting.
In short children go to school to safely experience the world they will eventually live in. and not the family bubble they are brought up in.
In days of yore children learned what they needed to know at the elbows of parents. Before the age when we would be considering sending them to school, would already be in employment of some kind whether mundane or not. The net result was that such societies atrophied and society changed hardly at all ‘ It was the agrarian and industrial revolutions that changed all that!
Post by Farmer Giles
Thankfully, we were largely able to counter most of the nonsense that
so-called teachers tried to fill their heads with. So they have grown up
with an objective view of the world, not the one that the third-rate
minds of most teachers were employed to propagate.
You talk as though teachers have nothing to do except propagate social mores of one type or another. It does not happen! I am a science teacher. People may have their views as to what I should be required and not required to teach.
One thing they cannot do is alter the rules of Natural Science. I am therefore safe from interference of the kind you fear.
Yes a small part of my duties involved what is euphemistically called sex education. I did what I was paid to do but never found it necessary to venture into the field of sexual deviance.
My lessons were purely factual and physiological in content. I was once questioned by one of HMI of schools in that I had neglected to present the ‘Gay perspective’ I answered, “I am not gay” If they are curious regarding such matters then they would be better served by asking someone who was!
an educated person can easily educate up to gcse...
when a specialised problem arises, one can easily employ some
local enthusiast...if you an spare the cash, many private
six forms can act as finishing schools
several educated parents can combine skills if they have
the wit and motivation

swedehead has only refereed to mediocre skills like 'english'
language

any child with an iq above 100 can be coached into oxbridge
entry...
state schools are mostly cess pits of bullying and poor education
...humans tend to copy behaviour...why would any responsible
guardian want (or even allow) such behaviour imitated?
--
www.abelard.org
Farmer Giles
2020-05-22 12:45:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.
Is that what you did?
It's quite a few years since any on my children were at school, but even
so we did consider home-schooling for them at on time. This raises a number
Often middle class parents opt for the middle of the rad approach employing a home tutor. I have been approached myself quite a few lessons but have always refused. I have never delivered a private lesson in my life I like to think that any child for whom I am entrusted gets the best I can offer whether that is adequate or not. I tell parents that whenever the subject is broached.
Yes I do believe in private education wherever parents if that's what parents want and can afford However, that is a different argument altogether. For me it is a matter of personal freedom as to what one does with their own money.
However, that aside, I think it would be appropriate to mention that every developed country on earth as well as many of the developing ones have established state focussed education systems That means reliance essentially on a state funded system. As far as I am aware, though many children in this world go uneducated, not one country that I am aware of at any rate that relies entirely upon ad hoc homespun solutions. This does not mean of course that state funded systems of schooling are the ideal but that they are the best solution to a need thus devised.
Now let us look at the example of your son. According to what you have said here abut him to say he is quite a bright lad s an understatement. Not every family has an Oxbridge graduate in its midst. Mine certainly has not! However, you then sat there and tell me that you are quite confident that you could develop this to talent right from reception to pre-university level using no more than the resources of you own home and family. I’m telling you I, with 40 years teaching experience that I couldn’t do it and neither could you. Although you do present here an above average degree of articulation suggesting an education to some level like me you simply lack the breadth of knowledge. What are your foreign language skills like? How about science? How about maths? Art etc. Schools particularly secondary schools recruit specialists to fill these roles.
It even goes deeper than that. We no longer live in rural villages comprising of a small number of family bubbles. We live in far more complex social and, dare I say it, diverse societies. In going to school children meet up with children from a huge range of backgrounds. They must befriend or otherwise interact and socially negotiate with these others. The best way to reduce social disparities is through common experience. All these processes go on between lessons, on the way to and from school, in the playground, on the corridors, the sports field, the school bus, drams (dancing around and messing about as the kids call it!) and so on. These are valuable functions that cannot be replicated within the home setting.
In short children go to school to safely experience the world they will eventually live in. and not the family bubble they are brought up in.
In days of yore children learned what they needed to know at the elbows of parents. Before the age when we would be considering sending them to school, would already be in employment of some kind whether mundane or not. The net result was that such societies atrophied and society changed hardly at all ‘ It was the agrarian and industrial revolutions that changed all that!
Post by Farmer Giles
Thankfully, we were largely able to counter most of the nonsense that
so-called teachers tried to fill their heads with. So they have grown up
with an objective view of the world, not the one that the third-rate
minds of most teachers were employed to propagate.
You talk as though teachers have nothing to do except propagate social mores of one type or another. It does not happen! I am a science teacher. People may have their views as to what I should be required and not required to teach.
One thing they cannot do is alter the rules of Natural Science. I am therefore safe from interference of the kind you fear.
Yes a small part of my duties involved what is euphemistically called sex education. I did what I was paid to do but never found it necessary to venture into the field of sexual deviance.
My lessons were purely factual and physiological in content. I was once questioned by one of HMI of schools in that I had neglected to present the ‘Gay perspective’ I answered, “I am not gay” If they are curious regarding such matters then they would be better served by asking someone who was!
Well, I don't disagree with very much of that. I am largely referring to
primary education when I talk of home-schooling. Much of the
brainwashing and indoctrination is done at that stage.

If youngsters can get to the age of eleven without any of that then they
are far less likely to succumb afterwards.

Of course to get them up to good A-level standard requires specialist
teachers, particularly ones who up to date with current syllabuses and
requirements. Even so I regard much of secondary and higher education as
wasted on many of those who receive it.
Andy Walker
2020-05-22 13:46:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[...] Even so I regard much of secondary and higher education as
wasted on many of those who receive it.
All education is wasted in the sense that education is
what's left when you've forgotten everything you were taught.
It's also wasted on the young, but that's another matter. We
can't survive/thrive without waste [Darwinism in a nutshell].
--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.
Pamela
2020-05-24 17:57:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Walker
[...] Even so I regard much of secondary and higher education as
wasted on many of those who receive it.
All education is wasted in the sense that education is
what's left when you've forgotten everything you were taught.
It's also wasted on the young, but that's another matter. We
can't survive/thrive without waste [Darwinism in a nutshell].
I agree with that.

I had better be careful or people will wonder!
Keema's Nan
2020-05-21 08:18:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.
Is that what you did?
It's quite a few years since any on my children were at school, but even
so we did consider home-schooling for them at on time.
Thankfully, we were largely able to counter most of the nonsense that
so-called teachers tried to fill their heads with. So they have grown up
with an objective view of the world, not the one that the third-rate
minds of most teachers were employed to propagate.
Where my children were concerned, I took a very cynical view of teachers -
and had no truck with their attempts to brainwash the children. I think they
understood, and were glad to have a parent who didn’t conform.

My youngest is dyslexic; something I discovered when trying to get him to
spell. The word was DOG. He stared at the page looking blank because there
was no picture prompt as they had at school. So I tried it letter by letter.
What was the first letter? He replied ‘guh’ and I realised he was looking
at words backwards.

I told his teacher I believed he was dyslexic, but a parent can’t tell a
teacher anything - they know it all. So she ignored me. Later, when he had
made no progress whatsoever, I told the headmaster I thought he was dyslexic,
and that the staff were not helping him. Apparently the last thing a pleb
parent does is suggest that the school is not 100% brilliant in every way,
and so the headmaster ignored me, and the progress he made was entirely down
to my wife and I.

As my son said, he came last in all tests not because he did not know the
answer, but because he couldn’t read the question.

The primary teachers were not interested in anything other than the status of
the school in local league tables.

It was only when he moved to secondary school that the teaching staff took my
comments seriously and arranged his timetable in order for him to have extra
reading and spelling coaching with someone who understood dyslexia.
Farmer Giles
2020-05-21 09:29:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.
Is that what you did?
It's quite a few years since any on my children were at school, but even
so we did consider home-schooling for them at on time.
Thankfully, we were largely able to counter most of the nonsense that
so-called teachers tried to fill their heads with. So they have grown up
with an objective view of the world, not the one that the third-rate
minds of most teachers were employed to propagate.
Where my children were concerned, I took a very cynical view of teachers -
and had no truck with their attempts to brainwash the children. I think they
understood, and were glad to have a parent who didn’t conform.
My youngest is dyslexic; something I discovered when trying to get him to
spell. The word was DOG. He stared at the page looking blank because there
was no picture prompt as they had at school. So I tried it letter by letter.
What was the first letter? He replied ‘guh’ and I realised he was looking
at words backwards.
I told his teacher I believed he was dyslexic, but a parent can’t tell a
teacher anything - they know it all. So she ignored me. Later, when he had
made no progress whatsoever, I told the headmaster I thought he was dyslexic,
and that the staff were not helping him. Apparently the last thing a pleb
parent does is suggest that the school is not 100% brilliant in every way,
and so the headmaster ignored me, and the progress he made was entirely down
to my wife and I.
As my son said, he came last in all tests not because he did not know the
answer, but because he couldn’t read the question.
The primary teachers were not interested in anything other than the status of
the school in local league tables.
It was only when he moved to secondary school that the teaching staff took my
comments seriously and arranged his timetable in order for him to have extra
reading and spelling coaching with someone who understood dyslexia.
As Rowing demonstrates continually, many of them are none too bright.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-21 10:42:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Farmer Giles
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Farmer Giles
If the education of young children is to be considered essential, then
parents would be well advised to keep their children at home.
Is that what you did?
It's quite a few years since any on my children were at school, but even
so we did consider home-schooling for them at on time.
Thankfully, we were largely able to counter most of the nonsense that
so-called teachers tried to fill their heads with. So they have grown up
with an objective view of the world, not the one that the third-rate
minds of most teachers were employed to propagate.
Where my children were concerned, I took a very cynical view of teachers -
and had no truck with their attempts to brainwash the children. I think they
understood, and were glad to have a parent who didn’t conform.
My youngest is dyslexic; something I discovered when trying to get him to
spell. The word was DOG. He stared at the page looking blank because there
was no picture prompt as they had at school. So I tried it letter by letter.
What was the first letter? He replied ‘guh’ and I realised he was looking
at words backwards.
I told his teacher I believed he was dyslexic, but a parent can’t tell a
teacher anything - they know it all. So she ignored me. Later, when he had
made no progress whatsoever, I told the headmaster I thought he was dyslexic,
and that the staff were not helping him. Apparently the last thing a pleb
parent does is suggest that the school is not 100% brilliant in every way,
and so the headmaster ignored me, and the progress he made was entirely down
to my wife and I.
As my son said, he came last in all tests not because he did not know the
answer, but because he couldn’t read the question.
The primary teachers were not interested in anything other than the status of
the school in local league tables.
It was only when he moved to secondary school that the teaching staff took my
comments seriously and arranged his timetable in order for him to have extra
reading and spelling coaching with someone who understood dyslexia.
As Rowing demonstrates continually, many of them are none too bright.
Most of them are just egotistic performers, except they have no acting talent
and their audiences are deemed to be in need of being patronised rather than
being taught.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-20 08:49:38 UTC
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Post by Roger
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
The Education Act of 1996? (Law of the Land prescribe hat publicly
mainaintained schools shall be open for 380 sessions per year (1 school day
= 2 sessions) The appropriate act also dictates that 10 of these sessions
may be used for teacher training and that certain days (viz public
holidays) Saturdays and Sundays shall not be included in these 190 days.
As we all know, the coronavirus pandemic obliged the government of the day
to take what amounted to emergency powers to suspend these arrangements.
The time as now come to consider restoring the school day to how the
sovereign Parliament of this country wished. In Boris' words, the lLocal
Education authorities should not be requested but instructed to restore
normality in this respect.
It's nothing to do with either pupil or teacher safety. Throughout the
crisis some children have been ggonig to school continously. AFAIK there is
not a reported single case where either a child, a teacher or anyone else
has contracted a CoV-19 infection whilst in school.
It's all hokum and nothing to do with safety or anything else but
everything to do with labour activists embedded on local education and
union committees. It's time they were taken on.
Once the decision has been made and the date set all Local Education and
governing bodies should be informed and instructed to open schools under
their control on the set day. Any authority that fails to comply will find
itself in the High Court. Boris wants to announce his intention to take
this action preemptively across the floor of the HoC.
With teachers the problem is easier still to solve. Any teacher who fails
to attend school on the set date other than for reasonable already accepted
causes will be deemed to be in dispute and on strike with their salaries
adjusted accordingly. Any opposition to re-opening will then dissolve.
Believe me!
Indeed such a confrontation might provide grounds to strip LEa's pf their
powers anyway. A long overdue and much needed reform.
What is mpre concerning is that whilst many middle class children are getting
a reasonable education at home via decent computers, fast internet
connections and furloughed/work at home parents, children from less
advantaged backgrounds are frequently missing out.
It's interesting to see which side the unions are on....OK, it's their job to
push techers interests
It is not the unions’ fault that the public are now cowed into their homes,
hardly daring to mix with strangers.

This is how the establishment backed hysterical MSM have been instructed to
portray the virus over the last 10 weeks. Full on war-footing propaganda,
even with daily ministerial live WAR briefings covered grovelingly by the WAR
channel aka BBC1.

You can’t have it both ways, however hard you try.

As you sow, so you shall reap.
Post by Roger
(who would obviously prefer to stay at home as long as
possible), but you would expect them to look at the childrens interests as
well.
I would suggest that there are many other infectious diseases that pose more
risk to young children, who are mostly unaffected by Covid-19.
It's true that they could spread infection to teachers, who are more at risk;
And if one child in a school gets the symptoms, the entire school will have
to close down and all the children and staff are back to 14 day isolation.

Ditto, every other school with a virus suspect.

So, what are you toady fascists achieving, except a rather lame attempt at
union bashing?
Post by Roger
but the teachers also have a duty to the childrens interests; many essential
workers have continued to work through the crisis, despite the risks.
Do you actually have any children?

Maybe you should try it sometime, and see how well you perform when trying to
instruct a year 1 class of 30 five/six year olds to wear face masks and keep
2 metres apart at all times during the school day.
Post by Roger
Young childrens education should be considered just as essential.
Mark Devon
2020-05-23 03:25:30 UTC
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((It's time they were taken on.))

It's time Cummings was taken on. Any PM worth his salt would have dismissed this clumsy lockdown-disobeying idiot a long time ago, I'm sure you'd agree. Cummings should be publicly shamed. The police should be getting their drones out over his parents home whenever he heads that way. Irresponsible twit.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-05-23 06:35:41 UTC
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Post by Mark Devon
((It's time they were taken on.))
It's time Cummings was taken on. Any PM worth his salt would have dismissed this clumsy lockdown-disobeying idiot a long time ago, I'm sure you'd agree. Cummings should be publicly shamed. The police should be getting their drones out over his parents home whenever he heads that way. Irresponsible twit.
You are a pretentious idiot aren't you?

As regards his apparent breach of lockdown there is the usual chorus of calls for im to resign or be sacked.

If he were a member of the government then I would be inclined to agree. However, he is definitely not and he's not even an MP. So who does he work for?

AFAICS he is part of Boris' personal staff or maybe he works for the Tory party? Whatever the case he is not paid out of public funds and if this is the case then it is difficult to see how he can be dismissed without the consent and cooperation of his employer. No doubt Boris will be wanting a face to face with him.

I hope he stays. He's a good man to have on board. Cavalier and ruthless. public life needs the Dominic Cummings'of this world His book on the referendum campaign was hilarious. We've a lot to be thankful to him for.

I wonder whether Boris could have it both ways. Publicly dismiss him but in reality simply push him into the background. After all anybody can write a letter to the PM. Many altogether unknowns will have the ear of the PM. (and Stutterer)
Keema's Nan
2020-05-23 08:34:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Mark Devon
((It's time they were taken on.))
It's time Cummings was taken on. Any PM worth his salt would have dismissed
this clumsy lockdown-disobeying idiot a long time ago, I'm sure you'd
agree. Cummings should be publicly shamed. The police should be getting
their drones out over his parents home whenever he heads that way.
Irresponsible twit.
You are a pretentious idiot aren't you?
As regards his apparent breach of lockdown there is the usual chorus of calls
for im to resign or be sacked.
Yes. A similar chorus for resignation/sacking can be heard whenever a Labour
member breaks the rules.

So try not to be too hypocritical, I know it might be hard for you but I’m
sure you will manage it eventually.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
If he were a member of the government then I would be inclined to agree.
However, he is definitely not and he's not even an MP. So who does he work
for?
He works for the person who pays his wages.

Have you not even bothered to find that out?

Did you think he worked for free?
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
AFAICS he is part of Boris' personal staff or maybe he works for the Tory
party? Whatever the case he is not paid out of public funds and if this is
the case then it is difficult to see how he can be dismissed without the
consent and cooperation of his employer. No doubt Boris will be wanting a
face to face with him.
I hope he stays. He's a good man to have on board.
No he isn’t. He is such a dumbass that he has been interviewed by the
police for deliberately breaking lockdown rules.

That fact alone puts a very large question mark over his judgement and state
of mind.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Cavalier and ruthless.
Aka greedy, selfish and inconsiderate.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
public life needs the Dominic Cummings'of this world
No it certainly does not.

It needs to be rid of that kind of person (from all political parties) for
once and for all.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
His book on the
referendum campaign was hilarious. We've a lot to be thankful to him for.
We have nothing to thank him for, and nor should we ever have.

He sets an extremely bad example to everyone.
abelard
2020-05-23 12:32:01 UTC
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On Sat, 23 May 2020 09:34:57 +0100, Keema's Nan
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Mark Devon
((It's time they were taken on.))
It's time Cummings was taken on. Any PM worth his salt would have dismissed
this clumsy lockdown-disobeying idiot a long time ago, I'm sure you'd
agree. Cummings should be publicly shamed. The police should be getting
their drones out over his parents home whenever he heads that way.
Irresponsible twit.
You are a pretentious idiot aren't you?
As regards his apparent breach of lockdown there is the usual chorus of calls
for im to resign or be sacked.
Yes. A similar chorus for resignation/sacking can be heard whenever a Labour
member breaks the rules.
your cult believes in 'equality'...i don't
--
www.abelard.org
Keema's Nan
2020-05-23 12:45:13 UTC
Reply
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Post by abelard
On Sat, 23 May 2020 09:34:57 +0100, Keema's Nan
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Mark Devon
((It's time they were taken on.))
It's time Cummings was taken on. Any PM worth his salt would have dismissed
this clumsy lockdown-disobeying idiot a long time ago, I'm sure you'd
agree. Cummings should be publicly shamed. The police should be getting
their drones out over his parents home whenever he heads that way.
Irresponsible twit.
You are a pretentious idiot aren't you?
As regards his apparent breach of lockdown there is the usual chorus of calls
for im to resign or be sacked.
Yes. A similar chorus for resignation/sacking can be heard whenever a Labour
member breaks the rules.
your cult believes in 'equality'...i don't
I think your lot have made that perfectly clear for decades.
abelard
2020-05-23 13:05:22 UTC
Reply
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On Sat, 23 May 2020 13:45:13 +0100, Keema's Nan
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by abelard
On Sat, 23 May 2020 09:34:57 +0100, Keema's Nan
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Mark Devon
((It's time they were taken on.))
It's time Cummings was taken on. Any PM worth his salt would have dismissed
this clumsy lockdown-disobeying idiot a long time ago, I'm sure you'd
agree. Cummings should be publicly shamed. The police should be getting
their drones out over his parents home whenever he heads that way.
Irresponsible twit.
You are a pretentious idiot aren't you?
As regards his apparent breach of lockdown there is the usual chorus of calls
for im to resign or be sacked.
Yes. A similar chorus for resignation/sacking can be heard whenever a Labour
member breaks the rules.
your cult believes in 'equality'...i don't
I think your lot have made that perfectly clear for decades.
clarity is good
--
www.abelard.org
Farmer Giles
2020-05-23 15:06:51 UTC
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Post by abelard
On Sat, 23 May 2020 13:45:13 +0100, Keema's Nan
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by abelard
On Sat, 23 May 2020 09:34:57 +0100, Keema's Nan
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Mark Devon
((It's time they were taken on.))
It's time Cummings was taken on. Any PM worth his salt would have dismissed
this clumsy lockdown-disobeying idiot a long time ago, I'm sure you'd
agree. Cummings should be publicly shamed. The police should be getting
their drones out over his parents home whenever he heads that way.
Irresponsible twit.
You are a pretentious idiot aren't you?
As regards his apparent breach of lockdown there is the usual chorus of calls
for im to resign or be sacked.
Yes. A similar chorus for resignation/sacking can be heard whenever a Labour
member breaks the rules.
your cult believes in 'equality'...i don't
I think your lot have made that perfectly clear for decades.
clarity is good
Not when someone, like you, is clearly an idiot.
Mark Devon
2020-05-23 08:57:57 UTC
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Permalink
((if he were a member of the government then I would be inclined to agree.))

Lol....yeh right.
Mark Devon
2020-05-23 17:39:11 UTC
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((You are a pretentious idiot aren't you?))

You still smarting at the fact that, once again, you've made an idiot of yourself in defending Cummings?
Keema's Nan
2020-05-23 17:46:05 UTC
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Post by Mark Devon
((You are a pretentious idiot aren't you?))
You still smarting at the fact that, once again, you've made an idiot of
yourself in defending Cummings?
He will not resign. Tories never do.

Only honourable people resign when they are found out.
Roger
2020-05-23 07:26:02 UTC
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Post by Mark Devon
((It's time they were taken on.))
It's time Cummings was taken on. Any PM worth his salt would have dismissed this clumsy lockdown-disobeying idiot a long time ago, I'm sure you'd agree. Cummings should be publicly shamed. The police should be getting their drones out over his parents home whenever he heads that way. Irresponsible twit.
Given that he is a non attention seeking employee, I think the political hounders should be shamed or even prosecuted for stalking.

If he broke any rules then he should be treated like everybody else. I haven't heard of anybody else who has been sacked from their job for breaching coronavirus rules (assuming he broke them, at the moment we're under the regime of trial by gutter press). I don't even know people who have been named, other than public figures.

Cummings is only known to us because his stalkers keep naming him. All the more reason they should be prosecuted.

The notion that you can attack politicians advisers and employee's as a way of undermining the person they serve is a dangerous novelty in British Politics, not to mention a direct attack of the civil liberties of the person concerned. All the more ironic that the Guardian is at the centre of this smear campaign.
Keema's Nan
2020-05-23 08:36:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Mark Devon
((It's time they were taken on.))
It's time Cummings was taken on. Any PM worth his salt would have dismissed
this clumsy lockdown-disobeying idiot a long time ago, I'm sure you'd
agree. Cummings should be publicly shamed. The police should be getting
their drones out over his parents home whenever he heads that way.
Irresponsible twit.
Given that he is a non attention seeking employee, I think the political
hounders should be shamed or even prosecuted for stalking.
Would you recommend prosecution in the same disgusting manner your buddies in
Scotland are trying to prosecute Craig Murray?

<snipped the usual state sponsored bullshit>
Keema's Nan
2020-05-23 08:27:04 UTC
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Post by Mark Devon
((It's time they were taken on.))
It's time Cummings was taken on. Any PM worth his salt would have dismissed
this clumsy lockdown-disobeying idiot a long time ago, I'm sure you'd agree.
Cummings should be publicly shamed. The police should be getting their drones
out over his parents home whenever he heads that way. Irresponsible twit.
They have spoken to him, when he buggered off to Durham a few weeks ago.

The Guardian are reporting that fact today with barely undisclosed glee.
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