Discussion:
Big Tech, or Big Brother?
(too old to reply)
Vidcapper
2021-01-10 06:53:54 UTC
Permalink
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Ian Jackson
2021-01-10 08:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found out
last week).
--
Ian
Pancho
2021-01-10 11:27:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found out
last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.

It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
KKKernal Corn
2021-01-10 13:14:19 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:27:16 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found out
last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
And it does. However, the Great Satan cannot compel a private company
such as Twitter to publish those views.
DoD
2021-01-11 04:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by KKKernal Corn
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:27:16 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found out
last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
And it does. However, the Great Satan cannot compel a private company
such as Twitter to publish those views.
On a different note, I have tried to respond to your emails and it says
I am being blocked by spamhaus..I have no idea why. Good story on your
first email, and on your second one, I have no idea if that is the
friend, but if it is, I was way off based of what I imagined.
KKKernal Corn
2021-01-11 14:28:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by DoD
Post by KKKernal Corn
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:27:16 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found out
last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
And it does. However, the Great Satan cannot compel a private company
such as Twitter to publish those views.
On a different note, I have tried to respond to your emails and it says
I am being blocked by spamhaus..I have no idea why. Good story on your
first email, and on your second one, I have no idea if that is the
friend, but if it is, I was way off based of what I imagined.
Into it, I vill look. The friend admits the authenticity of the
picture but also admits it was taken some 20 years ago. Not quite
what I imagined either.
DoD
2021-01-13 02:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by KKKernal Corn
Post by DoD
Post by KKKernal Corn
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:27:16 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found out
last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
And it does. However, the Great Satan cannot compel a private company
such as Twitter to publish those views.
On a different note, I have tried to respond to your emails and it says
I am being blocked by spamhaus..I have no idea why. Good story on your
first email, and on your second one, I have no idea if that is the
friend, but if it is, I was way off based of what I imagined.
Into it, I vill look. The friend admits the authenticity of the
picture but also admits it was taken some 20 years ago. Not quite
what I imagined either.
I think you fixed it. I sent a reply and it appears to not have bounced.
KKKernal Corn
2021-01-13 13:13:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by DoD
Post by KKKernal Corn
Post by DoD
Post by KKKernal Corn
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 11:27:16 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found out
last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
And it does. However, the Great Satan cannot compel a private company
such as Twitter to publish those views.
On a different note, I have tried to respond to your emails and it says
I am being blocked by spamhaus..I have no idea why. Good story on your
first email, and on your second one, I have no idea if that is the
friend, but if it is, I was way off based of what I imagined.
Into it, I vill look. The friend admits the authenticity of the
picture but also admits it was taken some 20 years ago. Not quite
what I imagined either.
I think you fixed it. I sent a reply and it appears to not have bounced.
Indeed. Got it!
Ian Jackson
2021-01-10 14:23:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found
out last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
But, in this context, someone has to define 'legal'. There are more ways
of saying "Go out and do (something) bad" than simply saying '"Go out
and do (something) bad".
--
Ian
Pancho
2021-01-10 14:34:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found
out  last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
But, in this context, someone has to define 'legal'. There are more ways
of saying "Go out and do (something) bad" than simply saying '"Go out
and do (something) bad".
No, I don't adhere to this "dog whistle" argument. English is far too
imprecise and ambiguous. Recently, we have seen this innuendo type
accusation used to stamp out quite reasonable free speech and criticism.

We have allowed innuendo and satire to be used for generations. I see no
reason to stop now.
MM
2021-01-11 10:29:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:34:50 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found
out  last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
But, in this context, someone has to define 'legal'. There are more ways
of saying "Go out and do (something) bad" than simply saying '"Go out
and do (something) bad".
No, I don't adhere to this "dog whistle" argument. English is far too
imprecise and ambiguous. Recently, we have seen this innuendo type
accusation used to stamp out quite reasonable free speech and criticism.
We have allowed innuendo and satire to be used for generations. I see no
reason to stop now.
It's one thing to allow innuendo and satire in a relatively small
space as has been the case for generations. But now we have the
internet and one small piece of innuendo or satire can reach millions
across the world in an instant, without any of them knowing the
context.

MM
Pancho
2021-01-11 10:35:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
It's one thing to allow innuendo and satire in a relatively small
space as has been the case for generations. But now we have the
internet and one small piece of innuendo or satire can reach millions
across the world in an instant, without any of them knowing the
context.
David Steel - spitting image.
Vidcapper
2021-01-11 16:26:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 14:34:50 +0000, Pancho
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found
out last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
But, in this context, someone has to define 'legal'. There are more ways
of saying "Go out and do (something) bad" than simply saying '"Go out
and do (something) bad".
No, I don't adhere to this "dog whistle" argument. English is far too
imprecise and ambiguous. Recently, we have seen this innuendo type
accusation used to stamp out quite reasonable free speech and criticism.
We have allowed innuendo and satire to be used for generations. I see no
reason to stop now.
It's one thing to allow innuendo and satire in a relatively small
space as has been the case for generations. But now we have the
internet and one small piece of innuendo or satire can reach millions
across the world in an instant, without any of them knowing the
context.
But it's OK for leftist fake news to go out?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Incubus
2021-01-11 19:11:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found out
last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
Of course it does. Anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't understand the
concept of freedom of speech. The laughable idea that we have freedom of
speech, just not freedom from consequences is like saying that we are free to
murder anyone we wish, just not without consequences. No one in their right
mind thinks that murder is a right but Leftists disingenously apply the same
principle to being able to express an opinion.
Post by Pancho
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
Someone then has to decide which opinions are legal, but you call that
free speech.

A sane approach, similar to what we used to have, is not to criminalise any
form of speech with ambiguous and subjective guidelines irrespective of intent;
but rather to criminalise incitement, harassment &c. where the crime is clearly
defined and can never amount to expressing a point of view or a preference.
Bender B. Rodriguez
2021-01-11 21:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by Pancho
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
The right to free speech does not come 'free' (as five people found out
last week).
I do dislike this type of comment. Free speech does not mean without
consequence.
Of course it does. Anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't understand the
concept of freedom of speech. The laughable idea that we have freedom of
speech, just not freedom from consequences is like saying that we are free to
murder anyone we wish, just not without consequences. No one in their right
mind thinks that murder is a right but Leftists disingenously apply the same
principle to being able to express an opinion.
Clearly, some kinds of speech are more free than others :-)
Post by Incubus
Post by Pancho
It should mean that people are able to freely publish legal political
opinions and should be protected to the same extent as religious views
are protected.
Someone then has to decide which opinions are legal, but you call that
free speech.
A sane approach, similar to what we used to have, is not to criminalise any
form of speech with ambiguous and subjective guidelines irrespective of intent;
but rather to criminalise incitement, harassment &c. where the crime is clearly
defined and can never amount to expressing a point of view or a preference.
Custos Custodum
2021-01-10 14:43:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
1. The First Amendment does not apply to private individuals and
businesses.
2. Your freedom of speech does not oblige any third party to provide
you with a platform to exercise it.
3. You are perfectly free to make your own arrangements.
Incubus
2021-01-11 19:15:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Custos Custodum
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
1. The First Amendment does not apply to private individuals and
businesses.
When it can effect the outcome of an election, perhaps it is time that changed.
Post by Custos Custodum
2. Your freedom of speech does not oblige any third party to provide
you with a platform to exercise it.
Yet third parties are obliged to provide services when it suits the left.
Post by Custos Custodum
3. You are perfectly free to make your own arrangements.
Whenever that has been tried, Twitter mobs simply get the hosting providers and
payment processors to refuse service. But apparently, being able to make your
own platform from scratch makes that okay.
MM
2021-01-11 10:26:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
I'm not concerned at all about the ones that have been closed down,
including Parler in the last few hours, from which Amazon has pulled
the plug.

This newsgroup, along with many others, should also be pulled in light
of the incredible number of hate messages posted on them.

Note that one is NOT allowed to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre
unless there is actually a life-threatening fire taking place. And
even if there were such a fire, probably shouting "Fire!" would only
exacerbate the situation.

MM
KKKernal Corn
2021-01-11 14:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
I'm not concerned at all about the ones that have been closed down,
including Parler in the last few hours, from which Amazon has pulled
the plug.
This newsgroup, along with many others, should also be pulled in light
of the incredible number of hate messages posted on them.
Why not leave that to the news servers and ISPs?
Post by MM
Note that one is NOT allowed to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre
unless there is actually a life-threatening fire taking place. And
even if there were such a fire, probably shouting "Fire!" would only
exacerbate the situation.
Is one allowed to shout "Fire!" in a newsgroup full of hate messages?
abelard
2021-01-11 14:32:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
I'm not concerned at all about the ones that have been closed down,
including Parler in the last few hours, from which Amazon has pulled
the plug.
of course you're not...you're a religious enthusiast
Post by MM
This newsgroup, along with many others, should also be pulled in light
of the incredible number of hate messages posted on them.
nobody hates you...they just believe you're an idiot

i see you've escaped my kf...i'll let you out on probation
True Blue
2021-01-11 15:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
I'm not concerned at all about the ones that have been closed down,
including Parler in the last few hours, from which Amazon has pulled
the plug.
This newsgroup, along with many others, should also be pulled in light
of the incredible number of hate messages posted on them.
Note that one is NOT allowed to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre
unless there is actually a life-threatening fire taking place. And
even if there were such a fire, probably shouting "Fire!" would only
exacerbate the situation.
MM
And who defines "hate"?
Incubus
2021-01-11 19:21:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by True Blue
Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
I'm not concerned at all about the ones that have been closed down,
including Parler in the last few hours, from which Amazon has pulled
the plug.
This newsgroup, along with many others, should also be pulled in light
of the incredible number of hate messages posted on them.
Note that one is NOT allowed to shout "Fire!" in a crowded theatre
unless there is actually a life-threatening fire taking place. And
even if there were such a fire, probably shouting "Fire!" would only
exacerbate the situation.
What an idiot. Shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theatre isn't an issue of freedom
of speech. It's an issue of incitement.
Post by True Blue
Post by MM
MM
And who defines "hate"?
The Left do, constantly expanding the definition as they make it up.
JNugent
2021-01-15 12:46:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
I'm not concerned at all about the ones that have been closed down,
including Parler in the last few hours, from which Amazon has pulled
the plug.
This newsgroup, along with many others, should also be pulled in light
of the incredible number of hate messages posted on them...
...especially by Remainers ever since June 2016.

Basil Jet
2021-01-11 11:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
They're calling it Pixelnacht!
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
1981 - Ghoulish Practices - Concrete
DoD
2021-01-11 23:29:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Basil Jet
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
They're calling it Pixelnacht!
Good one.
Incubus
2021-01-11 19:03:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or shutting
down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here & especially in
America, despite their 1st Amendment?
Yes. I have been for quite some time. It's ironic that, effectively, Twitter
and Facebook are held up as private companies able to set their own terms of
service whereas a Christian bakery is considered a public utility that cannot
do the same.

Dystopian science fiction has for years explored the idea of a totalitarian
regime controlled by mega-corporations and the goverments they own. Just like
1984, it's another theme that is coming true. Governments could put a stop to
it if they wanted to, as I believe they are doing in Poland. The question is,
do they really want to?
A. Filip
2021-01-11 21:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Is anyone else as concerned as I am about the censoring and/or
shutting down of opinion sites the Left doesn't like, both here &
especially in America, despite their 1st Amendment?
Some people are concerned. Now it is "How many?" and "How long?".
--
A. Filip
| There are bugs and then there are bugs. And then there are bugs.
| (Karl Lehenbauer)
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