Discussion:
Britain commits to a no car future
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Byker
2020-02-05 18:01:08 UTC
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Permalink
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
Or stuffed into god-awful commuter trains:

abelard
2020-02-06 14:16:33 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Byker
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
http://youtu.be/njJ94o1B0qI
hybrids are dubious (and widely misused) technology

there is plenty of lithium, it just isn't being mined
enthusiastically as yet
--
www.abelard.org
Blue
2020-02-06 17:04:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
http://youtu.be/njJ94o1B0qI
hybrids are dubious (and widely misused) technology
there is plenty of lithium, it just isn't being mined
enthusiastically as yet
-------------

Even though 365 years of reserve supply sounds very
comforting, the point of the EV and stationary storage revolutions
is that current demand will shoot up, way up, if these revolutions
do happen. The 100 Gigafactories scenario could come true.
And if that happens, the 365-year supply would be less than

a 17-year supply

(13.5 million tons of reserves divided by 800,000 = 16.9 years).


https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
abelard
2020-02-06 18:55:27 UTC
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Post by Blue
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
http://youtu.be/njJ94o1B0qI
hybrids are dubious (and widely misused) technology
there is plenty of lithium, it just isn't being mined
enthusiastically as yet
-------------
Even though 365 years of reserve supply sounds very
comforting, the point of the EV and stationary storage revolutions
is that current demand will shoot up, way up, if these revolutions
do happen. The 100 Gigafactories scenario could come true.
And if that happens, the 365-year supply would be less than
a 17-year supply
(13.5 million tons of reserves divided by 800,000 = 16.9 years).
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
'reserves' tends to read 'known reserves'

lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe

it's in most rocks...

huge research is also going into battery forms

the chinese have been trying to corner the easy access market
--
www.abelard.org
Custos Custodum
2020-02-06 20:35:44 UTC
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Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Blue
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
http://youtu.be/njJ94o1B0qI
hybrids are dubious (and widely misused) technology
there is plenty of lithium, it just isn't being mined
enthusiastically as yet
-------------
Even though 365 years of reserve supply sounds very
comforting, the point of the EV and stationary storage revolutions
is that current demand will shoot up, way up, if these revolutions
do happen. The 100 Gigafactories scenario could come true.
And if that happens, the 365-year supply would be less than
a 17-year supply
(13.5 million tons of reserves divided by 800,000 = 16.9 years).
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
'reserves' tends to read 'known reserves'
lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe
Doesn't even make the top 40.
Post by abelard
it's in most rocks...
"Most rocks" comprise a tiny fraction of the mass of the universe.
Post by abelard
huge research is also going into battery forms
the chinese have been trying to corner the easy access market
Farmer Giles
2020-02-06 20:47:42 UTC
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Post by Custos Custodum
Post by abelard
Post by Blue
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
http://youtu.be/njJ94o1B0qI
hybrids are dubious (and widely misused) technology
there is plenty of lithium, it just isn't being mined
enthusiastically as yet
-------------
Even though 365 years of reserve supply sounds very
comforting, the point of the EV and stationary storage revolutions
is that current demand will shoot up, way up, if these revolutions
do happen. The 100 Gigafactories scenario could come true.
And if that happens, the 365-year supply would be less than
a 17-year supply
(13.5 million tons of reserves divided by 800,000 = 16.9 years).
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
'reserves' tends to read 'known reserves'
lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe
Doesn't even make the top 40.
Post by abelard
it's in most rocks...
"Most rocks" comprise a tiny fraction of the mass of the universe.
Don't confuse him with facts. Most of what he thinks he knows he gets
from a frantic scrabble through Wikipedia - and almost invariably gets
things wrong in the process.
Vidcapper
2020-02-07 06:53:52 UTC
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Post by abelard
Post by Blue
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
'reserves' tends to read 'known reserves'
lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe
But not on Earth...
Post by abelard
it's in most rocks...
So is gold, but not in commercially viable quantities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Keema's Nan
2020-02-07 08:57:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Vidcapper
Post by abelard
Post by Blue
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-mai
ntain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
'reserves' tends to read 'known reserves'
lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe
But not on Earth...
230 billion tons contained in seawater.

How much do you need?
Post by Vidcapper
Post by abelard
it's in most rocks...
So is gold, but not in commercially viable quantities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium
Roger
2020-02-07 09:15:48 UTC
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Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Vidcapper
Post by abelard
Post by Blue
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-mai
ntain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
'reserves' tends to read 'known reserves'
lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe
But not on Earth...
230 billion tons contained in seawater.
Plus a rather fanciful, but probably functional, proposal to extract lithium from a combined water desalination/mineral extraction plant where mineral extraction is carried out on the waste outlet of the desalination stream and the whole caboodle is powered by local wind/solar farms on the basis of energy availibilty.
Keema's Nan
2020-02-07 12:48:25 UTC
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Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Vidcapper
Post by abelard
Post by Blue
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-m
ai
ntain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
'reserves' tends to read 'known reserves'
lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe
But not on Earth...
230 billion tons contained in seawater.
Plus a rather fanciful, but probably functional, proposal to extract lithium
from a combined water desalination/mineral extraction plant where mineral
extraction is carried out on the waste outlet of the desalination stream and
the whole caboodle is powered by local wind/solar farms on the basis of
energy availibilty.
Well, it would probably be viable in those arid areas where they get lots of
sunshine; but they are mainly populated by rag heads and therefore would not
go down well with the planet’s secret rulers.
Blue
2020-02-07 12:59:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Blue
-------------
Even though 365 years of reserve supply sounds very
comforting, the point of the EV and stationary storage revolutions
is that current demand will shoot up, way up, if these revolutions
do happen. The 100 Gigafactories scenario could come true.
And if that happens, the 365-year supply would be less than
a 17-year supply
(13.5 million tons of reserves divided by 800,000 = 16.9 years).
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/is-there-enough-lithium-to-maintain-the-growth-of-the-lithium-ion-battery-m
'reserves' tends to read 'known reserves'
Can you see God with that X-ray vision!? Long chats, incites??

Facts are govt can't make policy on the, gifted.

We either work on facts or we'll all be on our knees.
Post by abelard
lithium is one of the most common elements in the universe
We're dealing with Earth and mortals here.
Post by abelard
it's in most rocks...
..apparently
Post by abelard
huge research is also going into battery forms
But Boris wants it tomorrow or the ordinary guy

will be crippled with the cost of the effort and the failure.
Post by abelard
the chinese have been trying to corner the easy access market
...In slave labour, mind control camps and land grabbing.
abelard
2020-02-07 13:10:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Blue
Post by abelard
huge research is also going into battery forms
But Boris wants it tomorrow or the ordinary guy
will be crippled with the cost of the effort and the failure.
no guarantee of 'failure'

political acts follow political will..

i don't see which route he hopes to take...maybe he doesn't either
Post by Blue
Post by abelard
the chinese have been trying to corner the easy access market
...In slave labour, mind control camps and land grabbing.
part of their socialist system...with capitalist sommat or other!
--
www.abelard.org
Ian Jackson
2020-02-06 20:38:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
http://youtu.be/njJ94o1B0qI
hybrids are dubious (and widely misused) technology
there is plenty of lithium, it just isn't being mined
I guess that those that are used only (or mainly) in the 'self-charging'
mode (ie rarely charged from the mains) are probably best thought of as
petrol/diesel vehicles with battery-assisted acceleration when required,
and for fairly short distances on battery alone (most useful when
driving in built-up areas). This greatly minimises high pollution.

However, for distance travel on the open road, they can't travel all
that far on battery alone - so when the battery is flattened a lot of
fuel gets used for charging (with the associated increase in pollution).
Unlike 'conventional' vehicles, a hybrid has to lug around the
additional weight of the battery, and this morning on the radio (Nick
Ferrari's show I think) one guy reckoned that, when charging, you
typically get only about 15mpg.

Although electric vehicles are the desirable way to go, their strong
advocates nearly always fail to take account of several important
factors, which include (a) the environmental damage created in obtaining
the materials for the battery, (b) supplying sufficient public charging
points, (c) for domestic charging, getting a connection from the house
to the vehicle (which will frequently will be difficult or impossible),
(d) getting enough electricity from the power sources to the charging
points, (e) generating enough electricity in the first place, and (f)
disposal and recycling of worn out batteries.

As for the target for ceasing production of all new petrol/diesel/hybrid
cars by 2135, it seems to me that this will create a progressively
thriving market in used conventional vehicles. By 2050 or 55, there will
be a vast amount of old potential bangers on the road. Even if they have
been well-looked-after, many will probably no longer be capable of
meeting their original standards for polluting emissions.
--
Ian
abelard
2020-02-06 22:06:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 20:38:03 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
http://youtu.be/njJ94o1B0qI
hybrids are dubious (and widely misused) technology
there is plenty of lithium, it just isn't being mined
I guess that those that are used only (or mainly) in the 'self-charging'
mode (ie rarely charged from the mains) are probably best thought of as
petrol/diesel vehicles with battery-assisted acceleration when required,
and for fairly short distances on battery alone (most useful when
driving in built-up areas). This greatly minimises high pollution.
However, for distance travel on the open road, they can't travel all
that far on battery alone - so when the battery is flattened a lot of
fuel gets used for charging (with the associated increase in pollution).
Unlike 'conventional' vehicles, a hybrid has to lug around the
additional weight of the battery, and this morning on the radio (Nick
Ferrari's show I think) one guy reckoned that, when charging, you
typically get only about 15mpg.
Although electric vehicles are the desirable way to go, their strong
advocates nearly always fail to take account of several important
factors, which include (a) the environmental damage created in obtaining
the materials for the battery, (b) supplying sufficient public charging
points, (c) for domestic charging, getting a connection from the house
to the vehicle (which will frequently will be difficult or impossible),
(d) getting enough electricity from the power sources to the charging
points, (e) generating enough electricity in the first place, and (f)
disposal and recycling of worn out batteries.
As for the target for ceasing production of all new petrol/diesel/hybrid
cars by 2135, it seems to me that this will create a progressively
thriving market in used conventional vehicles. By 2050 or 55, there will
be a vast amount of old potential bangers on the road. Even if they have
been well-looked-after, many will probably no longer be capable of
meeting their original standards for polluting emissions.
i don't know enough details but what you say seems plausible

my own post distinguished hybrids as dubious...straight forward
plugins are a serious technology...imv hybrids are not

naturally the infrastructure for plugins is not 'in one mighty leap'
....as you are now discussing...but i don't have sufficient
data to hand to make a serious analysis of the problems
you suggest
--
www.abelard.org
Farmer Giles
2020-02-06 22:26:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by abelard
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 20:38:03 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
http://youtu.be/njJ94o1B0qI
hybrids are dubious (and widely misused) technology
there is plenty of lithium, it just isn't being mined
I guess that those that are used only (or mainly) in the 'self-charging'
mode (ie rarely charged from the mains) are probably best thought of as
petrol/diesel vehicles with battery-assisted acceleration when required,
and for fairly short distances on battery alone (most useful when
driving in built-up areas). This greatly minimises high pollution.
However, for distance travel on the open road, they can't travel all
that far on battery alone - so when the battery is flattened a lot of
fuel gets used for charging (with the associated increase in pollution).
Unlike 'conventional' vehicles, a hybrid has to lug around the
additional weight of the battery, and this morning on the radio (Nick
Ferrari's show I think) one guy reckoned that, when charging, you
typically get only about 15mpg.
Although electric vehicles are the desirable way to go, their strong
advocates nearly always fail to take account of several important
factors, which include (a) the environmental damage created in obtaining
the materials for the battery, (b) supplying sufficient public charging
points, (c) for domestic charging, getting a connection from the house
to the vehicle (which will frequently will be difficult or impossible),
(d) getting enough electricity from the power sources to the charging
points, (e) generating enough electricity in the first place, and (f)
disposal and recycling of worn out batteries.
As for the target for ceasing production of all new petrol/diesel/hybrid
cars by 2135, it seems to me that this will create a progressively
thriving market in used conventional vehicles. By 2050 or 55, there will
be a vast amount of old potential bangers on the road. Even if they have
been well-looked-after, many will probably no longer be capable of
meeting their original standards for polluting emissions.
i don't know enough details but what you say seems plausible
Translation: My bluff has been called, and I have to admit that even
though I've sounded off - as usual - I don't have a clue.
Post by abelard
my own post distinguished hybrids as dubious...straight forward
plugins are a serious technology...imv hybrids are not
Translation: Waffle, waffle - and yet more waffle.
Post by abelard
naturally the infrastructure for plugins is not 'in one mighty leap'
....as you are now discussing...but i don't have sufficient
data to hand to make a serious analysis of the problems
you suggest
Translation: Babbelard is full of shit, and can't resist demonstrating it.
Grikbassturder®™
2020-02-06 22:25:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 20:38:03 +0000, Ian Jackson
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by abelard
Post by Byker
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
http://youtu.be/njJ94o1B0qI
hybrids are dubious (and widely misused) technology
there is plenty of lithium, it just isn't being mined
I guess that those that are used only (or mainly) in the 'self-charging'
mode (ie rarely charged from the mains) are probably best thought of as
petrol/diesel vehicles with battery-assisted acceleration when required,
and for fairly short distances on battery alone (most useful when
driving in built-up areas). This greatly minimises high pollution.
However, for distance travel on the open road, they can't travel all
that far on battery alone - so when the battery is flattened a lot of
fuel gets used for charging (with the associated increase in pollution).
Unlike 'conventional' vehicles, a hybrid has to lug around the
additional weight of the battery, and this morning on the radio (Nick
Ferrari's show I think) one guy reckoned that, when charging, you
typically get only about 15mpg.
Although electric vehicles are the desirable way to go, their strong
advocates nearly always fail to take account of several important
factors, which include (a) the environmental damage created in obtaining
the materials for the battery, (b) supplying sufficient public charging
points, (c) for domestic charging, getting a connection from the house
to the vehicle (which will frequently will be difficult or impossible),
(d) getting enough electricity from the power sources to the charging
points, (e) generating enough electricity in the first place, and (f)
disposal and recycling of worn out batteries.
As for the target for ceasing production of all new petrol/diesel/hybrid
cars by 2135, it seems to me that this will create a progressively
thriving market in used conventional vehicles. By 2050 or 55, there will
be a vast amount of old potential bangers on the road. Even if they have
been well-looked-after, many will probably no longer be capable of
meeting their original standards for polluting emissions.
And revised MOT emission standards will take them all off the road!
Peeler
2020-02-06 22:30:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 06 Feb 2020 14:25:42 -0800, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous
sexual cripple, making an ass of herself as "Grikbassturder®™", farted
Post by Grikbassturder®™
And revised MOT emission standards will take them all off the road!
NOBODY talked to you, serb asshole!
--
Pedophilic dreckserb Razovic arguing in favour of pedophilia, again:
"There will always be progressives such as Harriet Harperson who want to
take that extra step forward. Paedophiles are still a long way from
being widely accepted."
MID: <rlMUE.676067$***@usenetxs.com>
Roger
2020-02-07 09:10:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Byker
Boris ‘I talk bollicks’ Johnson (you think Trump is bad !) has decided
that Britons won`t be sold diesel, petrol or hybrid cars after 2035 mainly
so he an showboat at the November COP (out) conference .This is a
pointless fantasy as there isn’t enough lithium , nickel or cobalt on the
planet to replace even the UK`s cars , the price of them will be so high
that only the rich will be able to afford them so most people will be back
on their bikes...
http://youtu.be/njJ94o1B0qI
Another alternative is that people might start buying cars on the basis of their serviceability. Interesting to note that many planes we fly on have been in 24x7 service for decades.
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