Discussion:
The bonfire of Conservative party orthodoxies will see the back of the Tories for ever
Add Reply
MM
2020-03-22 11:12:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a kneejerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice". All
ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue like
honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.

But the measures taken are so incredibly Draconian -- and who knows
whether they will even be increased still further -- that the Tory
philosophy has been blown out of the window. The vast
taxpayer-cum-borrowing resources that are now being pumped in will
have to be paid back. Tens of thousands of jobs may not be recovered,
as companies review their needs and ways of working. And what about
the greedy society this crisis has revealed? I expect there are houses
all over Britain with enough toilet rolls stashed in the attics to
last for ten years. This public greed will have to be addressed. Or
surely we won't just carry on as per usual?

Whether the Labour Party under new leadership will step forward and
provide the kind of encouragement the country will be looking for,
we'll have to wait and see. But for the Tories, I believe, the party's
over. Leopards don't change their spots. Tories don't alter their
orthodoxies. The country will be looking at someone to blame for all
this and Boris Johnson is the likely contender for that role.
Everything that will have happened by the end of this virus will have
changed this country fundamentally forever and the nation will want to
adopt a different approach that the Tories simply cannot deliver.

MM
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-03-22 19:17:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?

An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy? Thousands of doctors and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national emergency? That's the only way you can ensure that any public health system could cope with a situation of this nature.

It's interesting to note that you almost concede that sometime in the future things will get back to normal. If they do it will be of little thanks to you who gave your taxes from a considerable portion of your working life to the German state and boasted on here about it. You were quick enough to return as soon as you learned there was something seriously wrong with you. I'll bet you were not as quick to buy in the NI contributions you missed.
Post by MM
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a knee jerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice". All
ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue like
honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.
And where should government ministers look for advice regarding a matter like this? To the political establishment perhaps or to people who know what they are talking about even if they haven't got all the answers?

Perhaps instead they could turn to your guru Corbyn who even after all this while cannot accept the idea that the country decidedly rejected him. He's been rabbiting on today in a similar vein. Never again will audiences chant "Oh Oh! Oh! Jeremy Corbyn!" His fickle disciples have moved on to their next Messiah. You are of similar ilk, Your ideas have been rejected too but like Corbyn, you will still be here this time next year.

Out if respect to those who know better, at least you can keep quiet about it.
Keema's Nan
2020-03-22 19:27:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible precaution in
case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors
and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national
emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would be a
start.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
That's the only way you can ensure that any public health system
could cope with a situation of this nature.
Bollocks.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
It's interesting to note that you almost concede that sometime in the future
things will get back to normal. If they do it will be of little thanks to you
who gave your taxes from a considerable portion of your working life to the
German state and boasted on here about it. You were quick enough to return as
soon as you learned there was something seriously wrong with you. I'll bet
you were not as quick to buy in the NI contributions you missed.
Ad hominem.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a knee jerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice". All
ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue like
honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.
And where should government ministers look for advice regarding a matter like
this?
Advice from countries which are ahead of us on the virus curve.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
To the political establishment perhaps or to people who know what they
are talking about even if they haven't got all the answers?
Perhaps instead they could turn to your guru Corbyn
Oh dear, you must be desperate to scrape that low in the battle.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
who even after all this
while cannot accept the idea that the country decidedly rejected him. He's
been rabbiting on today in a similar vein. Never again will audiences chant
"Oh Oh! Oh! Jeremy Corbyn!" His fickle disciples have moved on to their next
Messiah. You are of similar ilk, Your ideas have been rejected too but like
Corbyn, you will still be here this time next year.
Ad hominem.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Out if respect to those who know better, at least you can keep quiet about it.
Irony alert.
Pamela
2020-03-22 20:30:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life
returns to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the
Tories are not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in
providing the NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the
past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible precaution
in case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors
and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national
emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would be
a start.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
That's the only way you can ensure that any public health system
could cope with a situation of this nature.
Bollocks.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
It's interesting to note that you almost concede that sometime in the
future things will get back to normal. If they do it will be of little
thanks to you who gave your taxes from a considerable portion of your
working life to the German state and boasted on here about it. You were
quick enough to return as soon as you learned there was something
seriously wrong with you. I'll bet you were not as quick to buy in the
NI contributions you missed.
Ad hominem.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a knee jerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice".
All ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue
like honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.
And where should government ministers look for advice regarding a
matter like this?
Advice from countries which are ahead of us on the virus curve.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
To the political establishment perhaps or to people who know what they
are talking about even if they haven't got all the answers?
Perhaps instead they could turn to your guru Corbyn
Oh dear, you must be desperate to scrape that low in the battle.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
who even after all this
while cannot accept the idea that the country decidedly rejected him.
He's been rabbiting on today in a similar vein. Never again will
audiences chant "Oh Oh! Oh! Jeremy Corbyn!" His fickle disciples have
moved on to their next Messiah. You are of similar ilk, Your ideas have
been rejected too but like Corbyn, you will still be here this time
next year.
Ad hominem.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Out if respect to those who know better, at least you can keep quiet about it.
Irony alert.
All very true. The NHS has to have spare capacity to meet ordinary
fluctuations in demand. Rowing doesn't seem to understand simple
arithmetic.

The NHS now have a record low number of beds and also fewer beds per
capita than any comparable European country. The newspapers were full of
dire warnings about this before the coronavirus had even appeared.
Keema's Nan
2020-03-22 21:28:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life
returns to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the
Tories are not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in
providing the NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the
past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible precaution
in case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors
and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national
emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would be
a start.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
That's the only way you can ensure that any public health system
could cope with a situation of this nature.
Bollocks.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
It's interesting to note that you almost concede that sometime in the
future things will get back to normal. If they do it will be of little
thanks to you who gave your taxes from a considerable portion of your
working life to the German state and boasted on here about it. You were
quick enough to return as soon as you learned there was something
seriously wrong with you. I'll bet you were not as quick to buy in the
NI contributions you missed.
Ad hominem.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a knee jerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice".
All ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue
like honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.
And where should government ministers look for advice regarding a
matter like this?
Advice from countries which are ahead of us on the virus curve.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
To the political establishment perhaps or to people who know what they
are talking about even if they haven't got all the answers?
Perhaps instead they could turn to your guru Corbyn
Oh dear, you must be desperate to scrape that low in the battle.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
who even after all this
while cannot accept the idea that the country decidedly rejected him.
He's been rabbiting on today in a similar vein. Never again will
audiences chant "Oh Oh! Oh! Jeremy Corbyn!" His fickle disciples have
moved on to their next Messiah. You are of similar ilk, Your ideas have
been rejected too but like Corbyn, you will still be here this time
next year.
Ad hominem.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Out if respect to those who know better, at least you can keep quiet about it.
Irony alert.
All very true. The NHS has to have spare capacity to meet ordinary
fluctuations in demand. Rowing doesn't seem to understand simple
arithmetic.
Oh I think he does.

It is just that he is brainwashed into an extreme right wing attitude, where
accountants are the only people to follow; and only the bottom line counts.

Just as with airline or train companies, an empty bed is a waste of money -
so slim everything down to the bare bones and pay the staff minimum wage. Hey
presto, a financially efficient health service.

Unfortunately, we saw the results of that idiot thinking twenty years ago
with Railtrack. Derailments a plenty, and many dead.

How many deaths is Rowing happy to turn a blind eye to, in order to get a
Thatcherite medal to wear on his over bloated chest?
The NHS now have a record low number of beds and also fewer beds per
capita than any comparable European country. The newspapers were full of
dire warnings about this before the coronavirus had even appeared.
Pamela
2020-03-23 11:42:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 22 Mar 2020, Pamela wrote (in article
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life
returns to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the
Tories are not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in
providing the NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the
past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible
precaution in case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors and nurses sitting round doing nothing but
wait for the next national emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would
be a start.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
That's the only way you can ensure that any public health system
could cope with a situation of this nature.
Bollocks.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
It's interesting to note that you almost concede that sometime in
the future things will get back to normal. If they do it will be of
little thanks to you who gave your taxes from a considerable
portion of your working life to the German state and boasted on
here about it. You were quick enough to return as soon as you
learned there was something seriously wrong with you. I'll bet you
were not as quick to buy in the NI contributions you missed.
Ad hominem.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a knee
jerk reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific
advice". All ministers let that and other glib statements roll
off the tongue like honey, to sweeten the government's
reputation, such as it is.
And where should government ministers look for advice regarding a
matter like this?
Advice from countries which are ahead of us on the virus curve.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
To the political establishment perhaps or to people who know what
they are talking about even if they haven't got all the answers?
Perhaps instead they could turn to your guru Corbyn
Oh dear, you must be desperate to scrape that low in the battle.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
who even after all this while cannot accept the idea that the
country decidedly rejected him. He's been rabbiting on today in a
similar vein. Never again will audiences chant "Oh Oh! Oh! Jeremy
Corbyn!" His fickle disciples have moved on to their next Messiah.
You are of similar ilk, Your ideas have been rejected too but like
Corbyn, you will still be here this time next year.
Ad hominem.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Out if respect to those who know better, at least you can keep quiet about it.
Irony alert.
All very true. The NHS has to have spare capacity to meet ordinary
fluctuations in demand. Rowing doesn't seem to understand simple
arithmetic.
Oh I think he does.
It is just that he is brainwashed into an extreme right wing attitude,
where accountants are the only people to follow; and only the bottom
line counts.
Just as with airline or train companies, an empty bed is a waste of
money - so slim everything down to the bare bones and pay the staff
minimum wage. Hey presto, a financially efficient health service.
Unfortunately, we saw the results of that idiot thinking twenty years
ago with Railtrack. Derailments a plenty, and many dead.
How many deaths is Rowing happy to turn a blind eye to, in order to get
a Thatcherite medal to wear on his over bloated chest?
Rowing holds some bizarre notions and keeps mentioning them as if they're
an accepted fact. Do you think he has "small dog
syndrome" in which they sufferer yaps and bites the ankles of bigger
people because he feels threatened by their presence?

He argues by latching onto extremes and debating only those instances.
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-03-23 15:01:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
On 22 Mar 2020, Pamela wrote (in article
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life
returns to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the
Tories are not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in
providing the NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the
past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible
precaution in case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors and nurses sitting round doing nothing but
wait for the next national emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would
be a start.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
That's the only way you can ensure that any public health system
could cope with a situation of this nature.
Bollocks.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
It's interesting to note that you almost concede that sometime in
the future things will get back to normal. If they do it will be of
little thanks to you who gave your taxes from a considerable
portion of your working life to the German state and boasted on
here about it. You were quick enough to return as soon as you
learned there was something seriously wrong with you. I'll bet you
were not as quick to buy in the NI contributions you missed.
Ad hominem.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a knee
jerk reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific
advice". All ministers let that and other glib statements roll
off the tongue like honey, to sweeten the government's
reputation, such as it is.
And where should government ministers look for advice regarding a
matter like this?
Advice from countries which are ahead of us on the virus curve.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
To the political establishment perhaps or to people who know what
they are talking about even if they haven't got all the answers?
Perhaps instead they could turn to your guru Corbyn
Oh dear, you must be desperate to scrape that low in the battle.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
who even after all this while cannot accept the idea that the
country decidedly rejected him. He's been rabbiting on today in a
similar vein. Never again will audiences chant "Oh Oh! Oh! Jeremy
Corbyn!" His fickle disciples have moved on to their next Messiah.
You are of similar ilk, Your ideas have been rejected too but like
Corbyn, you will still be here this time next year.
Ad hominem.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Out if respect to those who know better, at least you can keep
quiet about it.
Irony alert.
All very true. The NHS has to have spare capacity to meet ordinary
fluctuations in demand. Rowing doesn't seem to understand simple
arithmetic.
Oh I think he does.
It is just that he is brainwashed into an extreme right wing attitude,
where accountants are the only people to follow; and only the bottom
line counts.
Just as with airline or train companies, an empty bed is a waste of
money - so slim everything down to the bare bones and pay the staff
minimum wage. Hey presto, a financially efficient health service.
Unfortunately, we saw the results of that idiot thinking twenty years
ago with Railtrack. Derailments a plenty, and many dead.
How many deaths is Rowing happy to turn a blind eye to, in order to get
a Thatcherite medal to wear on his over bloated chest?
Rowing holds some bizarre notions and keeps mentioning them as if they're
an accepted fact. Do you think he has "small dog
syndrome" in which they sufferer yaps and bites the ankles of bigger
people because he feels threatened by their presence?
He argues by latching onto extremes and debating only those instances.
And what is the excuse for your rubbish?
abelard
2020-03-23 15:11:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by Pamela
Rowing holds some bizarre notions and keeps mentioning them as if they're
an accepted fact. Do you think he has "small dog
syndrome" in which they sufferer yaps and bites the ankles of bigger
people because he feels threatened by their presence?
He argues by latching onto extremes and debating only those instances.
And what is the excuse for your rubbish?
residing on the lower end of the bell curve
--
www.abelard.org
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-03-22 22:27:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
All very true. The NHS has to have spare capacity to meet ordinary
fluctuations in demand. Rowing doesn't seem to understand simple
arithmetic.
There is nothing "ordinary" about this particular fluctuation in demand' We are told that it's a generational event. Indeed I've seen it reported that its more less frequent than than that comparing it withe the great flue epidemic of 1918. My parents were both alive during that event. I've heard my mother talk of 7 people lying dead in houses within the same street. If there was any truth in this comparison, then today's events are lass frequent than generational. 1918 was 102 years ago. Over two and a half generations! And that does not take into account advances in treatments over 102 years and the fact that hospital stays are now much shorter than was the case even 20 years ago. Lots of conditions that once would have necessitated at least a week in hospital are now treated as an outpatient. That's why fewer beds are needed Nothing to d with cuts.
Post by Pamela
The NHS now have a record low number of beds and also fewer beds per
capita than any comparable European country. The newspapers were full of
dire warnings about this before the coronavirus had even appeared.
I was unaware of this. Anyway have we reached the stage where NHS policy should be press driven? As a matter of fact I had an experience in a Spanish hospital that revised positively my opinion of the NHS. I must tell ye of it sometime.

There are two periods of the year when 'normal fluctuations influence demand for beds. The first is the Christmas period since nobody wants their elective surgery to interfere with their Christmas extravagances if it can be avoided.The other is during the summer when flu and other winter ailments tend to dip. Besides that elective surgery can play havoc with holiday arrangements.

If flexibility is what you want. Nuffield hospitals of course have no need of waiting lists.

https://www.nuffieldhealth.com/hospitals

You arrange with your surgeon/consultant a mutually expedient date for your procedure and nothing but you can get in the way of your arrangement Of course you pay for the privilege. That's why Nuffield Hospitals can sell surplus bed places to the NHS.

that's the trouble. There is no reason why the NHS should not provide a similar
service as Nuffield. But would their patients pay Nuffield prices? I doubt it!

The trouble with the NHS is that there are plenty of takers but not enough providers.
Keema's Nan
2020-03-23 11:07:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
All very true. The NHS has to have spare capacity to meet ordinary
fluctuations in demand. Rowing doesn't seem to understand simple
arithmetic.
There is nothing "ordinary" about this particular fluctuation in demand'
Maybe, but there are fluctuations due to influenza, winter vomiting virus and
certain bacterial infections which race through hospitals each year.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
We
are told that it's a generational event. Indeed I've seen it reported that
its more less frequent than than that comparing it withe the great flue
epidemic of 1918. My parents were both alive during that event.
Why not put all this autobiographical nonsense into a book, so we do not have
to read it?
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
I've heard my
mother talk of 7 people lying dead in houses within the same street. If there
was any truth in this comparison, then today's events are lass frequent than
generational. 1918 was 102 years ago. Over two and a half generations! And
that does not take into account advances in treatments over 102 years and the
fact that hospital stays are now much shorter than was the case even 20 years
ago. Lots of conditions that once would have necessitated at least a week in
hospital are now treated as an outpatient. That's why fewer beds are needed
Nothing to d with cuts.
Complete nonsense. The population has doubled since then.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
The NHS now have a record low number of beds and also fewer beds per
capita than any comparable European country. The newspapers were full of
dire warnings about this before the coronavirus had even appeared.
I was unaware of this.
Why does this not surprise me?

You seem to be unaware of anything but the size of your bank balance, and the
value of your property.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Anyway have we reached the stage where NHS policy
should be press driven? As a matter of fact I had an experience in a Spanish
hospital that revised positively my opinion of the NHS. I must tell ye of it
sometime.
Please don’t.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
There are two periods of the year when 'normal fluctuations influence demand
for beds. The first is the Christmas period since nobody wants their elective
surgery to interfere with their Christmas extravagances if it can be
avoided.The other is during the summer when flu and other winter ailments
tend to dip. Besides that elective surgery can play havoc with holiday
arrangements.
If flexibility is what you want. Nuffield hospitals of course have no need of
waiting lists.
https://www.nuffieldhealth.com/hospitals
You arrange with your surgeon/consultant a mutually expedient date for your
procedure and nothing but you can get in the way of your arrangement Of
course you pay for the privilege. That's why Nuffield Hospitals can sell
surplus bed places to the NHS.
that's the trouble. There is no reason why the NHS should not provide a similar
service as Nuffield. But would their patients pay Nuffield prices? I doubt it!
The trouble with the NHS is that there are plenty of takers but not enough providers.
Blatant plug for private healthcare. How much do you get paid for being their
usenet representative?

It rather exposes the lies behind your reasons for keeping staffing levels at
the NHS as low as you think they can get away with.
g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
2020-03-23 11:10:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible precaution in
case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors
and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national
emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would be a
start.
If there is a 10,000 shortage, then why has that happened, when we have had a real terms spending bonanza on the HNS that has lasted decades?
Incubus
2020-03-23 11:24:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible precaution in
case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors
and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national
emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would be a
start.
If there is a 10,000 shortage, then why has that happened, when we have had a real terms spending bonanza on the HNS that has lasted decades?
Obviously the money didn't get spent on "hospital beds"!
MM
2020-03-27 12:15:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 11:24:08 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible precaution in
case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors
and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national
emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would be a
start.
If there is a 10,000 shortage, then why has that happened, when we have had a real terms spending bonanza on the HNS that has lasted decades?
Obviously the money didn't get spent on "hospital beds"!
New BMWs for senior management every year, perhaps?

MM
The Iceberg
2020-03-27 13:15:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MM
On Mon, 23 Mar 2020 11:24:08 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible precaution in
case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors
and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national
emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would be a
start.
If there is a 10,000 shortage, then why has that happened, when we have had a real terms spending bonanza on the HNS that has lasted decades?
Obviously the money didn't get spent on "hospital beds"!
New BMWs for senior management every year, perhaps?
thought you'd like that being a traitor that wants Germany to run us!
Keema's Nan
2020-03-23 11:35:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible precaution in
case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors
and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national
emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would be a
start.
If there is a 10,000 shortage, then why has that happened, when we have had a
real terms spending bonanza on the HNS that has lasted decades?
Because it has (a) been diverted into creating all manner of middle managers
and stupid internal accounting bullshit initiatives, which pay people
thousands to sit at a desk all their lives while ticking the relevant boxes
on their job description charts.

And (b) spent on paying billions to private companies via PFI contracts, many
of which are for 30-40 years.
g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
2020-03-23 16:15:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible precaution in
case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors
and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national
emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would be a
start.
If there is a 10,000 shortage, then why has that happened, when we have had a
real terms spending bonanza on the HNS that has lasted decades?
Because it has (a) been diverted into creating all manner of middle managers
and stupid internal accounting bullshit initiatives, which pay people
thousands to sit at a desk all their lives while ticking the relevant boxes
on their job description charts.
And (b) spent on paying billions to private companies via PFI contracts, many
of which are for 30-40 years.
....and these non-jobbers have been able to get away with all of this because any real attempt at rectifying this will be depicted as "heartless".
MM
2020-03-27 12:14:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by g***@walkerlincoln.co.uk
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Why go to extremes? 10-15% spare capacity would be a sensible precaution in
case of a sudden epidemic.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors
and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national
emergency?
Here you go to the extreme again. Not having a 10,000 shortage would be a
start.
If there is a 10,000 shortage, then why has that happened, when we have had a real terms spending bonanza on the HNS that has lasted decades?
Surely you don't *believe* ten years of Tory rhetoric?

MM
MM
2020-03-27 12:09:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Yes. Another pandemic WILL happen, sooner or later. Beds and wards can
be mothballed.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national emergency?
The NHS is short of 120,000 medical personnel. We need all the staff
it can recruit.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
That's the only way you can ensure that any public health system could cope with a situation of this nature.
Like Germany, for example?
Corona virus fatality rate: 0.6% Britain: 4.8%
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
It's interesting to note that you almost concede that sometime in the future things will get back to normal.
If they do it will be of little thanks to you who gave your taxes from a considerable portion of your working
life
12 years is not a "considerable portion" of 40 years.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
to the German state
As a permanent resident I earned income there, so naturally enough the
German state required me to pay tax on it.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
and boasted on here about it.
"boasted"? How?
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
You were quick enough to return as soon as you
learned there was something seriously wrong with you.
I returned in 1982. I did not need or use the NHS until 2011. Can you
explain your mathematical workings to justify "quick"?
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
I'll bet you were not as quick to buy in the NI contributions you missed.
People over 60 pay no NI contributions and we get all our meds free,
as well you must know, being of advanced age.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a knee jerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice". All
ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue like
honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.
And where should government ministers look for advice regarding a matter like this?
Same place China, Germany and South Korea were getting it. If our
scientists are "the best in the world", as Johnson and Jenrick never
tire of telling us, then we're stuffed, aren't we? Sounded to me like
the "scientist" Boris was being persuaded by was a particular chap
named Dominic Cummins, who was promoting herd immunity as a quick and
cheap final solution.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
To the political establishment perhaps or to people who know what they are talking about even if they haven't got all the answers?
They didn't have the one key answer, which is preempting the spread by
rigorous testing and tracing, followed by lockdown. South Korea
managed it fine.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Perhaps instead they could turn to your guru Corbyn who even after all this while cannot accept the idea that the country decidedly rejected him. He's been rabbiting on today in a similar vein. Never again will audiences chant "Oh Oh! Oh! Jeremy Corbyn!" His fickle disciples have moved on to their next Messiah. You are of similar ilk, Your ideas have been rejected too but like Corbyn, you will still be here this time next year.
I do not support Corbyn or his form of socialism. But things will be
different once Starmer becomes the new leader.
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Out if respect to those who know better, at least you can keep quiet about it.
Quiet about what? Do you only participate with people who agree with
you?

MM
The Iceberg
2020-03-27 13:17:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Yes. Another pandemic WILL happen, sooner or later. Beds and wards can
be mothballed.
this really shows how dumb you are, have a 50% oversupply of NHS beds just left to rot LOL
m***@btopenworld.com
2020-03-27 16:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
What exactly do you want?
An oversupply of hospital beds with about 50% occupancy?
Yes. Another pandemic WILL happen, sooner or later. Beds and wards can
be mothballed.
At a cost! And beds and wards include the equipment that goes into them equipment that dates and deteriorates over time.

In the years following the last war, the RN thought it could maintain a higher state of readiness by mothballing ships. Older vessels were given a fresh coat of paint, tied up and maintained by a shared skeleton crew. They never went to sea again. The policy was soon abandoned. It was soon found that the regualar servicing afforded by a permanent crew as routine kept the ships afloat> of course they did. Any matelot could tell you that. unused ships at anchor quickly corrode, deteriorate and become weather beaten gradually falling into unsericability. One or two of them even sank at their moorings They soon disappeared one by one towed to the place where they belonged = the breaker's yard.

Similar applies to buildings. You could build a new house leave it unoccupied and it would deteriorate. For starters no heat would be passing through it which would give rise to condensation and mould. Gutters would become blocked which would give rise to damp. Storm damage would give rise to tiles becoming displaced from the roof, vandals would get in and cause damage, paint would peel off treated surfaces and if the building ever were put to use it would still be an old building that did not come up to modern standards as would any equipment stored within it. The only use for a hospital that has come to the end of its useful life involves a wrecking ball particularly when it occupies a prime building site.

What really does happen is happening as we speak. The London Excel centre which already serves a useful purpose is being converted to a 4000 bed hospital over a period of several weeks. The building is sound so conversion will be rapid.

Once the emergency is over the building will be readily restored to its former purpose. Everyone's a winner!
Post by MM
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Thousands of doctors and nurses sitting round doing nothing but wait for the next national emergency?
The NHS is short of 120,000 medical personnel. We need all the staff
it can recruit.
Where did you get that figure from? Even the Labour party puts the figure at 10000. Is it your intention that 10000 or 12000 skilled personnel with their associated infrastructure should sit doing nothing until the next crisis comes along? You re as mad as a hatter!
Post by MM
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
That's the only way you can ensure that any public health system could cope with a situation of this nature.
Like Germany, for example?
Corona virus fatality rate: 0.6% Britain: 4.8%
And nobody including the Germans can explain why!

These situations are fluid which makes cross national comparisons difficult. This time a month hence the situation could well be reversed and nobody will know why then either!
Post by MM
People over 60 pay no NI contributions and we get all our meds free,
as well you must know, being of advanced age.
I do know and don't approve. When I was younger I needed my money to provide for my family which was hard at times. Now that I'm better off than I've ever been, want for nothing within reason, engaged in all sorts of capers so that my money will go to my heirs rather than the government, they give me free healthcare. I could have done with this benefice 50 years ago.
Post by MM
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a knee jerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice". All
ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue like
honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.
And where should government ministers look for advice regarding a matter like this?
The important decisions should be taken by those with the experience, knowledge and expertise. to deal with the situation. Parliament should be suspended for the duration of the crisis. What does Corbyn know about microbiology. He couldn't even struggle through the early stages of a degree course.
Post by MM
Same place China, Germany and South Korea were getting it. If our
scientists are "the best in the world", as Johnson and Jenrick never
tire of telling us, then we're stuffed, aren't we? Sounded to me like
the "scientist" Boris was being persuaded by was a particular chap
named Dominic Cummins, who was promoting herd immunity as a quick and
cheap final solution.
Dominic Cummings has no medical qualifications whatsoever. He is a political adviser pure and simple. The conservative party is in power. It is his brief to use his expertise to advise on ways that this situation may be perpetuated. Only time will tell the extent to which he is successful but his CV is good with regard to the referendum and the 2019 election.
Post by MM
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
To the political establishment perhaps or to people who know what they are talking about even if they haven't got all the answers?
They didn't have the one key answer, which is preempting the spread by
rigorous testing and tracing, followed by lockdown. South Korea
managed it fine.
How are you in a position to judge? Yo have been wrong on just about everything else!
MM
2020-03-29 17:22:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
Like Germany, for example?
Corona virus fatality rate: 0.6% Britain: 4.8%
And nobody including the Germans can explain why!
Yes, they can. Sky News have been explaining it over several days now.
The reason is that Germany has done, and is doing, far more tests than
the UK. Why? Because Germany is a "can do" nation and Britain a "can't
do" one.

Gove and his fellow ministers wibble on about the 3.5 million test
kits supposedly on order, as if this is a massively impressive figure.
But there are 62 million people in this country! When will Gove and
the other ministers start getting a dose of reality? And what's with
these garden shed ventilators being assembled from string and sealing
wax? Will any of them actually work?

MM
Keema's Nan
2020-03-29 18:08:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MM
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
Like Germany, for example?
Corona virus fatality rate: 0.6% Britain: 4.8%
And nobody including the Germans can explain why!
Yes, they can. Sky News have been explaining it over several days now.
The reason is that Germany has done, and is doing, far more tests than
the UK. Why? Because Germany is a "can do" nation and Britain a "can't
do" one.
Gove and his fellow ministers wibble on about the 3.5 million test
kits supposedly on order, as if this is a massively impressive figure.
But there are 62 million people in this country!
Why would you want to test everyone?

There are enough people flouting the stay at home rules now, without millions
thinking they have tested negative and can go where they like.
Post by MM
When will Gove and
the other ministers start getting a dose of reality? And what's with
these garden shed ventilators being assembled from string and sealing
wax? Will any of them actually work?
MM
MM
2020-03-31 09:42:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 19:08:51 +0100, Keema's Nan
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by MM
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
Like Germany, for example?
Corona virus fatality rate: 0.6% Britain: 4.8%
And nobody including the Germans can explain why!
Yes, they can. Sky News have been explaining it over several days now.
The reason is that Germany has done, and is doing, far more tests than
the UK. Why? Because Germany is a "can do" nation and Britain a "can't
do" one.
Gove and his fellow ministers wibble on about the 3.5 million test
kits supposedly on order, as if this is a massively impressive figure.
But there are 62 million people in this country!
Why would you want to test everyone?
A Professor of Epidemiology explained this in a call to Saturday's Any
Answers Radio 4 programme:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gt23

Call starts at 28 mins 26 secs.
Post by Keema's Nan
There are enough people flouting the stay at home rules now, without millions
thinking they have tested negative and can go where they like.
What has that got to do with testing everyone?

MM
Keema's Nan
2020-03-31 10:30:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MM
On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 19:08:51 +0100, Keema's Nan
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by MM
Post by m***@btopenworld.com
Post by MM
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
Like Germany, for example?
Corona virus fatality rate: 0.6% Britain: 4.8%
And nobody including the Germans can explain why!
Yes, they can. Sky News have been explaining it over several days now.
The reason is that Germany has done, and is doing, far more tests than
the UK. Why? Because Germany is a "can do" nation and Britain a "can't
do" one.
Gove and his fellow ministers wibble on about the 3.5 million test
kits supposedly on order, as if this is a massively impressive figure.
But there are 62 million people in this country!
Why would you want to test everyone?
A Professor of Epidemiology explained this in a call to Saturday's Any
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gt23
Call starts at 28 mins 26 secs.
Post by Keema's Nan
There are enough people flouting the stay at home rules now, without millions
thinking they have tested negative and can go where they like.
What has that got to do with testing everyone?
MM
It is the warped logic of many, it would seem. They are flouting the rules
without being tested, because they don’t feel ill.

Test them and it gives a negative result, and they will be running around
everywhere; while the yet to be tested remain in lock-down.

The Iceberg
2020-03-27 13:12:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a kneejerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice". All
ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue like
honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.
But the measures taken are so incredibly Draconian -- and who knows
whether they will even be increased still further -- that the Tory
philosophy has been blown out of the window. The vast
taxpayer-cum-borrowing resources that are now being pumped in will
have to be paid back. Tens of thousands of jobs may not be recovered,
as companies review their needs and ways of working. And what about
the greedy society this crisis has revealed? I expect there are houses
all over Britain with enough toilet rolls stashed in the attics to
last for ten years. This public greed will have to be addressed. Or
surely we won't just carry on as per usual?
Whether the Labour Party under new leadership will step forward and
provide the kind of encouragement the country will be looking for,
we'll have to wait and see. But for the Tories, I believe, the party's
over. Leopards don't change their spots. Tories don't alter their
orthodoxies. The country will be looking at someone to blame for all
this and Boris Johnson is the likely contender for that role.
Everything that will have happened by the end of this virus will have
changed this country fundamentally forever and the nation will want to
adopt a different approach that the Tories simply cannot deliver.
oh the UK hating traitor is back! oh yes you LOST and Brexit WON!
Dan S. MacAbre
2020-03-27 19:52:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Iceberg
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a kneejerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice". All
ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue like
honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.
But the measures taken are so incredibly Draconian -- and who knows
whether they will even be increased still further -- that the Tory
philosophy has been blown out of the window. The vast
taxpayer-cum-borrowing resources that are now being pumped in will
have to be paid back. Tens of thousands of jobs may not be recovered,
as companies review their needs and ways of working. And what about
the greedy society this crisis has revealed? I expect there are houses
all over Britain with enough toilet rolls stashed in the attics to
last for ten years. This public greed will have to be addressed. Or
surely we won't just carry on as per usual?
Whether the Labour Party under new leadership will step forward and
provide the kind of encouragement the country will be looking for,
we'll have to wait and see. But for the Tories, I believe, the party's
over. Leopards don't change their spots. Tories don't alter their
orthodoxies. The country will be looking at someone to blame for all
this and Boris Johnson is the likely contender for that role.
Everything that will have happened by the end of this virus will have
changed this country fundamentally forever and the nation will want to
adopt a different approach that the Tories simply cannot deliver.
oh the UK hating traitor is back! oh yes you LOST and Brexit WON!
"But in spite of all temptations
To belong to other nations
He remains an English man
He remains an English man"

:-)
Ophelia
2020-03-27 21:20:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk
Post by The Iceberg
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a kneejerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice". All
ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue like
honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.
But the measures taken are so incredibly Draconian -- and who knows
whether they will even be increased still further -- that the Tory
philosophy has been blown out of the window. The vast
taxpayer-cum-borrowing resources that are now being pumped in will
have to be paid back. Tens of thousands of jobs may not be recovered,
as companies review their needs and ways of working. And what about
the greedy society this crisis has revealed? I expect there are houses
all over Britain with enough toilet rolls stashed in the attics to
last for ten years. This public greed will have to be addressed. Or
surely we won't just carry on as per usual?
Whether the Labour Party under new leadership will step forward and
provide the kind of encouragement the country will be looking for,
we'll have to wait and see. But for the Tories, I believe, the party's
over. Leopards don't change their spots. Tories don't alter their
orthodoxies. The country will be looking at someone to blame for all
this and Boris Johnson is the likely contender for that role.
Everything that will have happened by the end of this virus will have
changed this country fundamentally forever and the nation will want to
adopt a different approach that the Tories simply cannot deliver.
oh the UK hating traitor is back! oh yes you LOST and Brexit WON!
"But in spite of all temptations
To belong to other nations
He remains an English man
He remains an English man"

:-)

===

LOL he won't like that:))))
MM
2020-03-29 17:24:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Post by The Iceberg
Post by MM
After this virus crisis is over or becomes manageable and life returns
to some sort of normality, say in about three years, the Tories are
not going to be thanked for their tremendous laxity in providing the
NHS with sufficient resources and manpower over the past ten years.
Everything the government has been doing lately has been a kneejerk
reaction, while supposedly "following the best scientific advice". All
ministers let that and other glib statements roll off the tongue like
honey, to sweeten the government's reputation, such as it is.
But the measures taken are so incredibly Draconian -- and who knows
whether they will even be increased still further -- that the Tory
philosophy has been blown out of the window. The vast
taxpayer-cum-borrowing resources that are now being pumped in will
have to be paid back. Tens of thousands of jobs may not be recovered,
as companies review their needs and ways of working. And what about
the greedy society this crisis has revealed? I expect there are houses
all over Britain with enough toilet rolls stashed in the attics to
last for ten years. This public greed will have to be addressed. Or
surely we won't just carry on as per usual?
Whether the Labour Party under new leadership will step forward and
provide the kind of encouragement the country will be looking for,
we'll have to wait and see. But for the Tories, I believe, the party's
over. Leopards don't change their spots. Tories don't alter their
orthodoxies. The country will be looking at someone to blame for all
this and Boris Johnson is the likely contender for that role.
Everything that will have happened by the end of this virus will have
changed this country fundamentally forever and the nation will want to
adopt a different approach that the Tories simply cannot deliver.
oh the UK hating traitor is back! oh yes you LOST and Brexit WON!
"But in spite of all temptations
To belong to other nations
He remains an English man
He remains an English man"
Good one! And so true.

MM
Loading...