Discussion:
"Free" Europe ?
(too old to reply)
Byker
2021-07-15 17:37:23 UTC
Permalink
Did you know that in most of europe and the UK you
can be summarily ARRESTED for writing anything The
State doesn't want you to write ?
Greater Manchester Police have arrested the Savills estate agent who
allegedly posted a racist tweet about black England football stars after
the Three Lions lost the European Championship to Italy.
Andrew Bone, 37, self-presented at Cheadle Heath police station this
morning and was subsequently arrested on suspicion of an offence under
Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act.
. . . .
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9787839/Savills-estate-agent-37-arrested-vile-racist-tweet-black-England-stars.html
Greater Manchester Police have arrested the Savills estate agent who
allegedly posted a racist tweet about black England football stars after
the Three Lions lost the European Championship to Italy.
Andrew Bone, 37, self-presented at Cheadle Heath police station this
morning and was subsequently arrested on suspicion of an offence under
Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act.
I get the feeling that when my ancestors were run out of their own
country (Ulster), it was the best thing to ever happen to them...
NSquared
2021-07-16 02:40:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Did you know that in most of europe and the UK you
can be summarily ARRESTED for writing anything The
State doesn't want you to write ?
Greater Manchester Police have arrested the Savills estate agent who
allegedly posted a racist tweet about black England football stars after
the Three Lions lost the European Championship to Italy.
Andrew Bone, 37, self-presented at Cheadle Heath police station this
morning and was subsequently arrested on suspicion of an offence under
Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act.
. . . .
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9787839/Savills-estate-agent-37-arrested-vile-racist-tweet-black-England-stars.html
Greater Manchester Police have arrested the Savills estate agent who
allegedly posted a racist tweet about black England football stars after
the Three Lions lost the European Championship to Italy.
Andrew Bone, 37, self-presented at Cheadle Heath police station this
morning and was subsequently arrested on suspicion of an offence under
Section 1 of the Malicious Communications Act.
I get the feeling that when my ancestors were run out of their own
country (Ulster), it was the best thing to ever happen to them...
The most troublesome issue is that even after many gross
misadventures with fascists and communists and religious
zealots over the years, european countries STILL do not
grasp the idea, much less utility, of "free speech". It
is in no way what they would classify as a "right" that
all free men should enjoy. Basically, if you contradict
the States "truth" of the moment by blabbing out some
kind of heresy - you get ARRESTED.

Can any nation that forces its citizens to not say what
they think be considered "free" or "democratic" (a state
where the people, with all their diverse opinions, are
SUPPOSED to be the final power base) ??? Sure, life in
europe IS nicer than in Syria or NK or China - but it's
just a matter of degree. The SEED of State ideological
oppression IS there. If it's less today, that means it
might be more, much more, tomorrow.

Your racism IS appalling Byker, but that doesn't mean the
State or any other group should try to shut you up, much
less throw you into some gulag. I'd rather hear it than
have it be a festering secret. If anything, you offer a
shining anti-example that may convince others to take
less racialist view. :-)

Your ancestors could have done much worse. The USA is
THE most tolerant country in the world when it comes
to political/social ideologies. It's right in the
constitution, front and foremost. You can say what you
think here - and pretty much NOWHERE else in the world.
troLHunteR
2021-07-16 07:22:21 UTC
Permalink
  The most troublesome issue is that even after many gross
  misadventures with fascists and communists and religious
  zealots over the years, european countries STILL do not
  grasp the idea, much less utility, of "free speech". It
  is in no way what they would classify as a "right" that
  all free men should enjoy. Basically, if you contradict
  the States "truth" of the moment by blabbing out some
  kind of heresy - you get ARRESTED.
Well, as an EU citizen I disagree with you. In most EU countries you
have carnival festivities where for few weeks per year morons and idiots
are allowed to take the streets. They even elect their fool king (made
from straw & wood). But it is burned at the end. It does not stay in
office four years.

What you called personal "rights" are something which is necessary
to partly sacrifice when building a community, cannot work otherwise.
  The USA is
  THE most tolerant country in the world when it comes
  to political/social ideologies. It's right in the
  constitution, front and foremost. You can say what you
  think here - and pretty much NOWHERE else in the world.
BS, it seems you are just a brainwashed victim of your own propaganda.
Even you can easily find examples which show your true reality. From
McCarthy-era witch hunt on supposed communists (which is also an
ideology, regardless how much you do not like it) to real witch hunt and
burning "witches" some time earlier. In most EU cities you can walk
trough them without fear of snipers or bandits. Most EU countries have
remarkable socials services and public health coverage. And you are
missing something important, it is not enough to say what you think.
People want that what they say also counts for something. Right now I
see US as a very unsafe country with a lot of (political) contenders
trying to bully their own vision in reality and with no respect for any
other opinion.

I must add that on spiritual/phylosophical level you have to yet make up
your mind on the "freedom quest". There are two options - you can be a
part of (some) human society and sacrifice some of your freedom and
"rights" to make it work. The other options is a solitary road, you can
go up with your own spiritual advancement all the (long) way to Godhood,
but even first steps require that you leave the company of other humans.
Not to mention you have to cover your basic needs by yourself, handle
predators etc.
NSquared
2021-07-16 13:12:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by troLHunteR
   The most troublesome issue is that even after many gross
   misadventures with fascists and communists and religious
   zealots over the years, european countries STILL do not
   grasp the idea, much less utility, of "free speech". It
   is in no way what they would classify as a "right" that
   all free men should enjoy. Basically, if you contradict
   the States "truth" of the moment by blabbing out some
   kind of heresy - you get ARRESTED.
Well, as an EU citizen I disagree with you.
OK ... go stand in the public square and state
clearly that the Holocaust never happened, or
that "blacks" or "arabs" are inherently inferior
or that Syrian/African boat people should be
sunk at sea.

Factually correct or semi-correct or incorrect - your
opinion is your opinion and, at least in the horrible
awful oppressive USA, you CAN express your un-PC
opinions without being taken away to jail. The collective
truth, the path to the future, is always the synthesis
of millions of opinions. Selective silencing corrupts
that process and nations that do so cannot make claims
of being "free".


In most EU countries you
Post by troLHunteR
have carnival festivities where for few weeks per year morons and idiots
are allowed to take the streets. They even elect their fool king (made
from straw & wood). But it is burned at the end. It does not stay in
office four years.
What you called personal "rights" are something which is necessary
to partly sacrifice when building a community, cannot work otherwise.
   The USA is
   THE most tolerant country in the world when it comes
   to political/social ideologies. It's right in the
   constitution, front and foremost. You can say what you
   think here - and pretty much NOWHERE else in the world.
BS, it seems you are just a brainwashed victim of your own propaganda.
Even you can easily find examples which show your true reality. From
McCarthy-era witch hunt on supposed communists (which is also an
ideology, regardless how much you do not like it) to real witch hunt and
burning "witches" some time earlier. In most EU cities you can walk
trough them without fear of snipers or bandits. Most EU countries have
remarkable socials services and public health coverage. And you are
missing something important, it is not enough to say what you think.
People want that what they say also counts for something. Right now I
see US as a very unsafe country with a lot of (political) contenders
trying to bully their own vision in reality and with no respect for any
other opinion.
I must add that on spiritual/phylosophical level you have to yet make up
your mind on the "freedom quest". There are two options - you  can be a
part of (some) human society and sacrifice some of your freedom and
"rights" to make it work. The other options is a solitary road, you can
go up with your own spiritual advancement all the (long) way to Godhood,
but even first steps require that you leave the company of other humans.
Not to mention you have to cover your basic needs by yourself, handle
predators etc.
troLHunteR
2021-07-16 14:54:39 UTC
Permalink
  OK ... go stand in the public square and state
  clearly that the Holocaust never happened, or
  that "blacks" or "arabs" are inherently inferior
  or that Syrian/African boat people should be
  sunk at sea.
And why would any normal and reasonable person do that ? This would not
be "freedom", IMO that would be insanity.
  Factually correct or semi-correct or incorrect - your
  opinion is your opinion and, at least in the horrible
  awful oppressive USA, you CAN express your un-PC
  opinions without being taken away to jail.
You do understand that I am writing this from my country, not USA, right
? And I doubt that anyone realy care what I am writing here. The only
police intervention I heard of is when someone was threating to murder
some other person, and police was able to quickly identify him (even
with IP in another EU country). But even then there was no arrest, a
warning (and probably realizing there is no anonimity) was enough to
bring some sense to that person.
  Selective silencing corrupts
  that process and nations that do so cannot make claims
  of being "free".
Claiming to be "free" does not make you free, nor claiming some other
nation "not to be free" makes it so.
Post by troLHunteR
In most EU countries you
have carnival festivities where for few weeks per year morons and
idiots are allowed to take the streets. They even elect their fool
king (made from straw & wood). But it is burned at the end. It does
not stay in office four years.
What you called personal "rights" are something which is necessary
to partly sacrifice when building a community, cannot work otherwise.
   The USA is
   THE most tolerant country in the world when it comes
   to political/social ideologies. It's right in the
   constitution, front and foremost. You can say what you
   think here - and pretty much NOWHERE else in the world.
BS, it seems you are just a brainwashed victim of your own propaganda.
Even you can easily find examples which show your true reality. From
McCarthy-era witch hunt on supposed communists (which is also an
ideology, regardless how much you do not like it) to real witch hunt
and burning "witches" some time earlier. In most EU cities you can
walk trough them without fear of snipers or bandits. Most EU countries
have remarkable socials services and public health coverage. And you
are missing something important, it is not enough to say what you
think. People want that what they say also counts for something. Right
now I see US as a very unsafe country with a lot of (political)
contenders trying to bully their own vision in reality and with no
respect for any other opinion.
I must add that on spiritual/phylosophical level you have to yet make
up your mind on the "freedom quest". There are two options - you  can
be a part of (some) human society and sacrifice some of your freedom
and "rights" to make it work. The other options is a solitary road,
you can go up with your own spiritual advancement all the (long) way
to Godhood, but even first steps require that you leave the company of
other humans. Not to mention you have to cover your basic needs by
yourself, handle predators etc.
Byker
2021-07-16 16:05:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by troLHunteR
Post by NSquared
OK ... go stand in the public square and state
clearly that the Holocaust never happened, or
that "blacks" or "arabs" are inherently inferior
or that Syrian/African boat people should be
sunk at sea.
And why would any normal and reasonable person do that ? This would not
be "freedom", IMO that would be insanity.
Post by troLHunteR
Post by NSquared
Factually correct or semi-correct or incorrect - your
opinion is your opinion and, at least in the horrible
awful oppressive USA, you CAN express your un-PC
opinions without being taken away to jail.
You do understand that I am writing this from my country, not USA,
What does the UK have that we don't?

The "Official Secrets" Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_Act

The MacPherson Act
https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/resources/20-years-after-macpherson-what-has-changed

The "Malicious Communications Act"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_Communications_Act_1988

5.2 million surveillance cameras to keep an eye on the populace
https://counterterrorbusiness.com/news/19112020/number-cctv-cameras-uk-reaches-52-million

As I've said before, Britain's progress in human rights
seems to have peaked with the Magna Carta in 1215...
NSquared
2021-07-17 04:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by troLHunteR
Post by troLHunteR
   OK ... go stand in the public square and state
   clearly that the Holocaust never happened, or
   that "blacks" or "arabs" are inherently inferior
   or that Syrian/African boat people should be
   sunk at sea.
And why would any normal and reasonable person do that ? This would not
be "freedom", IMO that would be insanity.
Post by troLHunteR
   Factually correct or semi-correct or incorrect - your
   opinion is your opinion and, at least in the horrible
   awful oppressive USA, you CAN express your un-PC
   opinions without being taken away to jail.
You do understand that I am writing this from my country, not USA,
What does the UK have that we don't?
The "Official Secrets" Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Secrets_Act
The MacPherson Act
https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/resources/20-years-after-macpherson-what-has-changed
The "Malicious Communications Act"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malicious_Communications_Act_1988
5.2 million surveillance cameras to keep an eye on the populace
https://counted did his best to keep europe
from becoming addicted to Russian petrochemicals.

Biden ... Merkel told him NordStream-II is a done
deal and that's
thatrterrorbusiness.com/news/19112020/number-cctv-cameras-uk-reaches-52-million
Post by troLHunteR
As I've said before, Britain's progress in human rights
seems to have peaked with the Magna Carta in 1215...
There is considerable room for disagreement with the
"official" facts and figures regarding all those things
I mentioned. A lot of people don't even care about that,
and their opinions are their opinions, period. Any
democratic govt is supposed to respect that. Issues ?
Then provide alternative speech/facts to back yourself
up. "Bad" speech should be balanced with "good" speech,
not a constables truncheon.

The UK is NOT a "free country". Not even close. You
peasants WILL say only what you're allowed to say -
or ELSE. Saying "We're better than NK" isn't really
much to brag about. Truth is that the MECHANISMS
and ATTITUDE to BECOME just like NK really IS
already there. So, you're not like NK, yet ...
until the State finds it convenient .......

What was the old British definition - "freedom
is the ability to obey the monarch" ?
troLHunteR
2021-07-18 06:18:49 UTC
Permalink
  There is considerable room for disagreement with the
  "official" facts and figures regarding all those things
  I mentioned. A lot of people don't even care about that,
  and their opinions are their opinions, period. Any
  democratic govt is supposed to respect that. Issues ?
  Then provide alternative speech/facts to back yourself
  up. "Bad" speech should be balanced with "good" speech,
  not a constables truncheon.
  The UK is NOT a "free country". Not even close. You
  peasants WILL say only what you're allowed to say -
  or ELSE. Saying "We're better than NK" isn't really
  much to brag about. Truth is that the MECHANISMS
  and ATTITUDE to BECOME just like NK really IS
  already there. So, you're not like NK, yet ...
  until the State finds it convenient .......
  What was the old British definition - "freedom
  is the ability to obey the monarch" ?
UK is not in EU. But, you are on the right track. British Empire
inherited from romans skills needed to handle and govern human beings,
and its level today is much higher then anticipated by most. My point
could be seen from an example and its facts already in somewhat distant
past, so there is not much emotional ties to the current world. For the
colonization of Australia in the beginning were used convicted
prisoners. Once on the destination they were unchained (most of them)
and they could easily walk away to freedom. There was out there enough
animal life for them to feed, and even friendly aborigin woman (at least
in the beginning) to alllow them full life. Still, most of them stayed
and served their sentence. Because their desires were already shaped and
limited by "State" and were locked within human services offered by
their civilization. You can bet that they were not craving for public
libraries or churches, the list of desires usually start with brothels,
pubs and liquor stores, gambling, etc. They were just seeking more
enstanglement in their (mental) enslavement.
Today is just offered more "desirable" services, enough that most people
cannot imagine (or want) life without them (like those services on
Internet). So the very idea of "freedom" is mentally replaced with the
idea "to be free to choose between services offered" (ultimatively
selected and approved by the state).
If you take a look on USA, it was built by people who were ready to
explore unknown, were selfsufficient and prepared to face any danger.
But just few hundred years later most of their descendents would not be
capable even to feed themselves if "food chains" stop to deliver, and if
Internet stop to work that would be a cataclysm.
"Free speech" is just another ruse, standing in some corner and shouting
words without the power to actualy change something is vaste of time and
useless. And if some country has more or less laws allowing "free
speech" this is still irrelevant. In most of the countries nobody will
touch you regardless what you say if that is not perceived as a threat
to the system. But once you are marked as "possibly dangerous" you are
toasted, regardless of how much "rights" you think you may have.
And yes, about "racist", they are also not free neither fight for their
freedom. They just realise (mostly on some subconscious level) that
there is not enough "services" for all and what they actually want and
fight for is a "priority access". Would be nice to have free beer and
burgers, right ? Hoewer, selfishness is natural and instinctive and in
some weird way they are more close to recover their connection to
nature. Eventually.
Byker
2021-07-19 20:08:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by troLHunteR
If you take a look on USA, it was built by people who were ready to
explore unknown, were selfsufficient and prepared to face any danger.
As I've said, "America was not built by beta males."
Post by troLHunteR
But
just few hundred years later most of their descendents would not be
capable even to feed themselves if "food chains" stop to deliver, and if
Internet stop to work that would be a cataclysm.
By the time Franklin Roosevelt won the 1932 election things had gotten so
bad that, aside from historians, few people today realize just how close the
U.S. came to becoming a police state. Many prominent economists honestly
believed that capitalism had failed and socialism was the only way to go.

Two or three generations hence, today's pampered society won't stand for
standing in bread lines all day or living in Hoovervilles. Back then people
had it a LOT tougher, with no employee retirement plans, no Social Security,
no Welfare and food stamps, no minimum wage law, no 1964 Civil Rights Act,
and since the U.S. population was a lot more rural then, doing without
running water or electricity. When food riots broke out, or strikes were
crushed ruthlessly, the public was lucky if it got to see 30 seconds of
grainy, silent, 16mm newsreel footage from Hearst Movietone News. Most of
the footage of that era showing strikers and mobs in general being
tear-gassed, clubbed, and shot by police and National Guardsmen that you see
nowadays was never shown to 1930's audiences. What Rodney King went through
was dished out by cops on a daily basis.

With the mass media of today, especially with the Internet, trying to keep
"bad news" like that away from the public would be impossible. There are no
FDR's out there anymore (nowadays he wouldn't stand a chance of getting
elected anyway) and with the likes of the black "leadership" running around
preaching insurrection, it won't take much of a spark to set off the
powderkeg when things get bad enough...
Oleg Smirnov
2021-07-19 23:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Post by troLHunteR
If you take a look on USA, it was built by people who were ready to
explore unknown, were selfsufficient and prepared to face any danger.
As I've said, "America was not built by beta males."
<Loading Image...>

Look up name of this great artwork.
Post by Byker
Two or three generations hence, today's pampered society won't stand for
standing in bread lines all day or living in Hoovervilles. Back then people
had it a LOT tougher, with no employee retirement plans, no Social Security,
no Welfare and food stamps, no minimum wage law, no 1964 Civil Rights Act,
and since the U.S. population was a lot more rural then, doing without
running water or electricity. When food riots broke out, or strikes were
crushed ruthlessly, the public was lucky if it got to see 30 seconds of
grainy, silent, 16mm newsreel footage from Hearst Movietone News. Most of
the footage of that era showing strikers and mobs in general being
tear-gassed, clubbed, and shot by police and National Guardsmen that you see
nowadays was never shown to 1930's audiences. What Rodney King went through
was dished out by cops on a daily basis.
Meanwhile, as the report shows <http://tinyurl.com/y5mdvwak>,
the American deaths from drugs, alcohol and suicide today has
returned back to the level of century ago and even above.
Byker
2021-07-20 00:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oleg Smirnov
Post by Byker
Post by troLHunteR
If you take a look on USA, it was built by people who were ready to
explore unknown, were selfsufficient and prepared to face any danger.
As I've said, "America was not built by beta males."
<https://i.imgur.com/Lkgsssb.jpg>
Oleg must've creamed his jeans over that one.
Post by Oleg Smirnov
Look up name of this great artwork.
No beta males here: https://tinyurl.com/bva29fak
Post by Oleg Smirnov
Meanwhile, as the report shows <http://tinyurl.com/y5mdvwak>,
the American deaths from drugs, alcohol and suicide today has
returned back to the level of century ago and even above.
"In 2008, suicide claimed 38,406 lives in Russia. With a rate of 27.1
suicides per 100,000 people, Russia has one of the highest suicide rates in
the world." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_in_Russia

Has anything changed in the last 13 years?

Vodka is something like American Express travelers checks. Oleg won't leave
home without it:

Oleg Smirnov
2021-07-20 21:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
Post by Oleg Smirnov
Post by Byker
As I've said, "America was not built by beta males."
<https://i.imgur.com/Lkgsssb.jpg>
Look up name of this great artwork.
No beta males here: https://tinyurl.com/bva29fak
LOL
Post by Byker
Post by Oleg Smirnov
Meanwhile, as the report shows <http://tinyurl.com/y5mdvwak>,
the American deaths from drugs, alcohol and suicide today has
returned back to the level of century ago and even above.
"In 2008, suicide claimed 38,406 lives in Russia. With a rate of 27.1
suicides per 100,000 people, Russia has one of the highest suicide rates in
the world." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_consumption_in_Russia
Has anything changed in the last 13 years?
Of course <http://tinyurl.com/y59te9sb>

<https://tinyurl.com/drug-overdose-pindos>
<https://tinyurl.com/drug-overdose-europe>
America the leprosarium, mean while.

troLHunteR
2021-07-18 06:29:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Byker
As I've said before, Britain's progress in human rights
seems to have peaked with the Magna Carta in 1215...
There is an old roman saying :

"Human rights are limited to the tip of their sword"
Byker
2021-07-16 16:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by NSquared
Your racism IS appalling Byker, but that doesn't mean the
State or any other group should try to shut you up, much
less throw you into some gulag. I'd rather hear it than
have it be a festering secret.
What I want carved on my headstone:

I SAID WHAT OTHERS ONLY DARED THINK

South Africa today, America tomorrow: https://tinyurl.com/3bbbaw33
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