Discussion:
At what age is a child responsible?
(too old to reply)
Roger
2020-02-07 10:19:34 UTC
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A 15 year old cannot make a legally binding contract.

They cannot make any life changing decision on their own until 18.

I can't help wondering how a 15 year old can be stripped of citizenship for running away to pursue a dream after being ensnared online.

(I am of course reffering to Shamima Begum).
Pancho
2020-02-07 10:30:28 UTC
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Post by Roger
A 15 year old cannot make a legally binding contract.
They cannot make any life changing decision on their own until 18.
I think you'll find kids have to start making life changing decisions
long before they reach 5.
Post by Roger
I can't help wondering how a 15 year old can be stripped of citizenship for running away to pursue a dream after being ensnared online.
(I am of course reffering to Shamima Begum).
I suppose you also wonder why the James Bulger killers were sent to jail?
Incubus
2020-02-07 10:40:22 UTC
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Post by Pancho
Post by Roger
A 15 year old cannot make a legally binding contract.
They cannot make any life changing decision on their own until 18.
I think you'll find kids have to start making life changing decisions
long before they reach 5.
Post by Roger
I can't help wondering how a 15 year old can be stripped of citizenship for running away to pursue a dream after being ensnared online.
(I am of course reffering to Shamima Begum).
I suppose you also wonder why the James Bulger killers were sent to jail?
The age of criminal responsibility begins at ten in England and Wales
(according to Wikipedia). However, the danger she poses is far more relevant
than any meta-arguments about age, morals and the law.
Roger
2020-02-07 11:03:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by Pancho
Post by Roger
A 15 year old cannot make a legally binding contract.
They cannot make any life changing decision on their own until 18.
I think you'll find kids have to start making life changing decisions
long before they reach 5.
Post by Roger
I can't help wondering how a 15 year old can be stripped of citizenship for running away to pursue a dream after being ensnared online.
(I am of course reffering to Shamima Begum).
I suppose you also wonder why the James Bulger killers were sent to jail?
The age of criminal responsibility begins at ten in England and Wales
(according to Wikipedia). However, the danger she poses is far more relevant
than any meta-arguments about age, morals and the law.
So give her the citizenship and send her to trial on her return. As the Islamic State claim to be a State, and IS activists declare they want to overthrow the government and introduce Shia law, then she can be tried for treason.
Incubus
2020-02-07 11:14:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Incubus
Post by Pancho
Post by Roger
A 15 year old cannot make a legally binding contract.
They cannot make any life changing decision on their own until 18.
I think you'll find kids have to start making life changing decisions
long before they reach 5.
Post by Roger
I can't help wondering how a 15 year old can be stripped of citizenship for running away to pursue a dream after being ensnared online.
(I am of course reffering to Shamima Begum).
I suppose you also wonder why the James Bulger killers were sent to jail?
The age of criminal responsibility begins at ten in England and Wales
(according to Wikipedia). However, the danger she poses is far more relevant
than any meta-arguments about age, morals and the law.
So give her the citizenship and send her to trial on her return. As the Islamic State claim to be a State, and IS activists declare they want to overthrow the government and introduce Shia law, then she can be tried for treason.
Didn't Tony Blair remove treason from the statute books? Realistically, if
convicted, she will be housed and fed at the taxpayer's expense for a number of
years while having the opportunity to radicalise others. I have no sympathy
for her and don't see any reason why we should have her back.
abelard
2020-02-07 11:20:52 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 11:14:20 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Didn't Tony Blair remove treason from the statute books?
it's part of the religion...the nation state is a case of false
consciousness
get with the programme
--
www.abelard.org
Pancho
2020-02-07 11:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
So give her the citizenship and send her to trial on her return. As the Islamic State claim to be a State, and IS activists declare they want to overthrow the government and introduce Shia law, then she can be tried for treason.
You realise that this would cost money.

If you are willing to stump up the money for her trial and imprisonment,
perhaps the government would listen. If not, I would prefer our taxes
were spent on services in the UK.

As a wider issue I think the UK should have a discriminatory immigration
rules and use them to discriminate against people likely to become
terrorists, due to their support for ideologies different to standard UK
beliefs, in particular I would like the rules to discriminate on
religious grounds.
Pancho
2020-02-07 11:14:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by Pancho
Post by Roger
A 15 year old cannot make a legally binding contract.
They cannot make any life changing decision on their own until 18.
I think you'll find kids have to start making life changing decisions
long before they reach 5.
Post by Roger
I can't help wondering how a 15 year old can be stripped of citizenship for running away to pursue a dream after being ensnared online.
(I am of course reffering to Shamima Begum).
I suppose you also wonder why the James Bulger killers were sent to jail?
The age of criminal responsibility begins at ten in England and Wales
(according to Wikipedia).
Possibly, but he was talking about children making life changing
decisions on their own. Which they do all the time.

Also children under 10 who break the law can still be sanctioned, just
not via the standard criminal courts.
Post by Incubus
However, the danger she poses is far more relevant
than any meta-arguments about age, morals and the law.
I think she poses very little immediate criminal danger, but I'm even
more sure she offers very little. There are many people in the world
more deserving of my compassion.
Keema's Nan
2020-02-07 12:51:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pancho
Post by Roger
A 15 year old cannot make a legally binding contract.
They cannot make any life changing decision on their own until 18.
I think you'll find kids have to start making life changing decisions
long before they reach 5.
My granddaughter is 5. She was panicking the other day about driving a car.

She said “Grandpa I will never be able to drive a car, because I don’t
know where the roads go”.

Forward thinking.
Post by Pancho
Post by Roger
I can't help wondering how a 15 year old can be stripped of citizenship for
running away to pursue a dream after being ensnared online.
(I am of course reffering to Shamima Begum).
I suppose you also wonder why the James Bulger killers were sent to jail?
There was more to them than was ever revealed at the time.
Roger
2020-02-07 17:20:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
My granddaughter is 5. She was panicking the other day about driving a car.
She said “Grandpa I will never be able to drive a car, because I don’t
know where the roads go”.
You did explain to her that they all lead to Rome.....
Incubus
2020-02-07 17:21:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
My granddaughter is 5. She was panicking the other day about driving a car.
She said “Grandpa I will never be able to drive a car, because I don’t
know where the roads go”.
You did explain to her that they all lead to Rome.....
Or ISIS, if you take the wrong path.
Keema's Nan
2020-02-07 17:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
My granddaughter is 5. She was panicking the other day about driving a car.
She said “Grandpa I will never be able to drive a car, because I don’t
know where the roads go”.
You did explain to her that they all lead to Rome.....
Or ISIS, if you take the wrong path.
I’m sure she would quite like to visit Oxford.
Andy Walker
2020-02-07 17:30:57 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by Roger
Post by Keema's Nan
She said “Grandpa I will never be able to drive a car, because I don’t
know where the roads go”.
You did explain to her that they all lead to Rome.....
I explained to my children that if they always choose the major
road at a junction, they will finish up in London, so all they need to
know is how to get home from London.
--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.
Basil Jet
2020-02-07 18:06:18 UTC
Permalink
Judging by the results of the EU referendum,
I'd say responsibility kicks in at about 40.
--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
Swoone - 2018 - Handcuffed Heart
Dan S. MacAbre
2020-02-07 10:34:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
A 15 year old cannot make a legally binding contract.
They cannot make any life changing decision on their own until 18.
I can't help wondering how a 15 year old can be stripped of citizenship for running away to pursue a dream after being ensnared online.
Dream? :-)
Post by Roger
(I am of course reffering to Shamima Begum).
Incubus
2020-02-07 10:38:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
A 15 year old cannot make a legally binding contract.
They cannot make any life changing decision on their own until 18.
I can't help wondering how a 15 year old can be stripped of citizenship for running away to pursue a dream after being ensnared online.
(I am of course reffering to Shamima Begum).
That's the only rational argument I have heard against her citizenship being
revoked. However, she is no longer fifteen years old and has since given every
indication that her real regret is for her personal consequences and present
circumstances. She is likely to remain a threat if allowed to return and the
rights of the British public are far more worthy of protection than those of
someone who ran away to support terrorists. That is how she can be stripped of
citizenship and I would say the same if she were still fifteen.
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