Discussion:
Social Care - the Tories have let us down
(too old to reply)
The Todal
2018-03-08 11:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us have
aged parents who need that care.

But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px

One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
social care, the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.

The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’ financial
positions had “worsened markedly” since they were last audited in 2014,
with two thirds of councils with social care responsibilities dipping
into their reserves last year.
tim...
2018-03-08 12:02:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us have
aged parents who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
Whilst I agree that it's terrible that we haven't solved this problem

What is the Red team's solution? They seem just as ostrichlike. Their last
pontification on the issue was to dis the Tory's idea for their own
political ends (even though they probably, fundamentally, agreed with it.)

They have since failed to suggest a workable alternative.

tim
Omega
2018-03-08 12:10:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us have
aged parents who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
social care, the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’ financial
positions had “worsened markedly” since they were last audited in 2014,
with two thirds of councils with social care responsibilities dipping
into their reserves last year.
I certainly haven't the wit to remedy the whole of the problem but we
have a mentality in this country that doesn't help matters, "I've worked
hard all my life ... blah, blah, blah". Then it goes on, depending
who is whinging the mantra, "I want to leave ALL my wealth to my
children", or "I've paid my taxes all my life", then again, "Why should
the State take all my money? Etc. etc..

Many of my generation, the Bulge, have probably had the best welfare and
quality of life since our birth than any other generation, in the whole
of human history, solely because we were born at the 'right' time.

Many of us see the lifestyle we enjoyed was absolutely down to our
'cleverness' and not because the special time we were born! We are
special so we expect our extravagant living should go on forever.

If the Bulge people will only reason for a moment, the system we paid
into, was to run that system then! It paid a pension that ensured
people didn't starve to death, it paid the hip operation for your Nanna,
it educated YOUR children.

We had our go and by fuck didn't we take everything on offer with
relish! In a sense, it has exploded in our faces because we expected to
carry on taking, taking, taking though many of us will live to see one
hundred years on the planet and by the hell we are NOT giving one penny
of 'our hard earned cash' over the coming twenty five, thirty years.

Statistically, I believe, I could live about thirty years more than my
father along with the other several million Bulge people. Who is to
care for us in this time? Who will pay our fat inflated pensions while
we live alone in our four bedroom houses?

We have been the most cosseted generation since time began and still, we
demand more and more without doing a fucking tap for it, because, "We've
worked hard all our lives".

omega
abelard
2018-03-08 12:18:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Omega
Post by The Todal
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us have
aged parents who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
social care, the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’ financial
positions had “worsened markedly” since they were last audited in 2014,
with two thirds of councils with social care responsibilities dipping
into their reserves last year.
I certainly haven't the wit to remedy the whole of the problem but we
have a mentality in this country that doesn't help matters, "I've worked
hard all my life ... blah, blah, blah". Then it goes on, depending
who is whinging the mantra, "I want to leave ALL my wealth to my
children", or "I've paid my taxes all my life", then again, "Why should
the State take all my money? Etc. etc..
Many of my generation, the Bulge, have probably had the best welfare and
quality of life since our birth than any other generation, in the whole
of human history, solely because we were born at the 'right' time.
Many of us see the lifestyle we enjoyed was absolutely down to our
'cleverness' and not because the special time we were born! We are
special so we expect our extravagant living should go on forever.
If the Bulge people will only reason for a moment, the system we paid
into, was to run that system then! It paid a pension that ensured
people didn't starve to death, it paid the hip operation for your Nanna,
it educated YOUR children.
We had our go and by fuck didn't we take everything on offer with
relish! In a sense, it has exploded in our faces because we expected to
carry on taking, taking, taking though many of us will live to see one
hundred years on the planet and by the hell we are NOT giving one penny
of 'our hard earned cash' over the coming twenty five, thirty years.
Statistically, I believe, I could live about thirty years more than my
father along with the other several million Bulge people. Who is to
care for us in this time? Who will pay our fat inflated pensions while
we live alone in our four bedroom houses?
We have been the most cosseted generation since time began and still, we
demand more and more without doing a fucking tap for it, because, "We've
worked hard all our lives".
it is good to see a poster with sense
--
www.abelard.org
JNugent
2018-03-08 15:25:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Omega
Post by The Todal
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us
have aged parents who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
social care, the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’
financial positions had “worsened markedly” since they were last
audited in 2014, with two thirds of councils with social care
responsibilities dipping into their reserves last year.
I certainly haven't the wit to remedy the whole of the problem but we
have a mentality in this country that doesn't help matters, "I've worked
hard all my life   ...   blah, blah, blah".  Then it goes on, depending
who is whinging the mantra, "I want to leave ALL my wealth to my
children", or "I've paid my taxes all my life",  then again, "Why should
the State take all my money?  Etc. etc..
It's a reasonable enough stance, isn't it?

What's the fundamental difference between health care provided under the
NHS and health care not provided under the NHS?

There are plenty of countries in the world where getting cancer at 70
will require the patient to either start spending their savings and
re-mortgaging their house, or writing their will. If that's not what you
want for the UK (and I hope it isn't), what is the difference with dementia?
Post by Omega
Many of my generation, the Bulge, have probably had the best welfare and
quality of life since our birth than any other generation, in the whole
of human history, solely because we were born at the 'right' time.
Many of us see the lifestyle we enjoyed was absolutely down to our
'cleverness' and not because the special time we were born!  We are
special so we expect our extravagant living should go on forever.
If the Bulge people will only reason for a moment, the system we paid
into, was to run that system then!  It paid a pension that ensured
people didn't starve to death, it paid the hip operation for your Nanna,
it educated YOUR children...
...and paid for the pensions and health care of those born "too early"
to make a lifetime's contribution into the main post-war welfare state's
provisions.
Post by Omega
We had our go and by fuck didn't we take everything on offer with
relish!
Some of us might have.
Post by Omega
In a sense, it has exploded in our faces because we expected to
carry on taking, taking, taking though many of us will live to see one
hundred years on the planet and by the hell we are NOT giving one penny
of 'our hard earned cash' over the coming twenty five, thirty years.
Statistically, I believe, I could live about thirty years more than my
father along with the other several million Bulge people.  Who is to
care for us in this time?  Who will pay our fat inflated pensions while
we live alone in our four bedroom houses?
We will. Or rather, of those who are in the same position as we were
when we were doing the same thing(s) for older generations (see above).
Post by Omega
We have been the most cosseted generation since time began and still, we
demand more and more without doing a fucking tap for it, because, "We've
worked hard all our lives".
You have an odd way of conflating opposites as though they were identical.

Someone who has never done "a fucking tap" (what a way with words you
have) can hardly be accused of the ultimate sin of working hard all
their life.
Handsome Jack
2018-03-08 15:43:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us
have aged parents who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-
bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
social care, the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’
financial positions had “worsened markedly” since they were last
audited in 2014, with two thirds of councils with social care
responsibilities dipping into their reserves last year.
Theresa May tried to suggest an approach last year. Labour, ably
assisted by people like you, responded by screaming "Dementia tax!
DEMENTIA TAX!" You've got a fucking nerve complaining now that the
Tories have backed off.

Behaviour like this has led all parties to keep away from the issue if
they possibly can. But anyway, they're going to do a green paper
consultation this summer.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-set-out-proposals-to-ref
orm-care-and-support

That'll give you a chance to think up a few more meaningless slogans to
scream, while proposing nothing constructive yourselves beyond chanting
"More Money for the Public Sector! There must be more Moneeyyyyy!"
--
Jack
The Todal
2018-03-08 17:27:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by The Todal
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us
have aged parents who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-
bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
social care, the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’
financial positions had “worsened markedly” since they were last
audited in 2014, with two thirds of councils with social care
responsibilities dipping into their reserves last year.
Theresa May tried to suggest an approach last year. Labour, ably
assisted by people like you, responded by screaming "Dementia tax!
DEMENTIA TAX!" You've got a fucking nerve complaining now that the
Tories have backed off.
Behaviour like this has led all parties to keep away from the issue if
they possibly can. But anyway, they're going to do a green paper
consultation this summer.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-set-out-proposals-to-ref
orm-care-and-support
That'll give you a chance to think up a few more meaningless slogans to
scream, while proposing nothing constructive yourselves beyond chanting
"More Money for the Public Sector! There must be more Moneeyyyyy!"
I think somehow you didn't manage to absorb the simple phrase "having
had their central government funding cut by almost 50 per cent in 8 years".

It's reasonable to say that we can't keep pace with the increasing cost
of social care. But cutting the funding? Does that actually make any
sort of sense?

Anyway, when you're sitting alone in your house in trousers filled with
3 day old cack and you can't manage to get to the phone to ask anyone to
come and give you some food, I genuinely hope that you can at least
reach for your laptop and find a way of posting to Usenet and telling us
all what a stupid idiot you were back in March 2018.
Yellow
2018-03-08 18:51:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Handsome Jack
Post by The Todal
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us
have aged parents who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-
bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
social care, the government?s financial watchdog has concluded.
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities?
financial positions had ?worsened markedly? since they were last
audited in 2014, with two thirds of councils with social care
responsibilities dipping into their reserves last year.
Theresa May tried to suggest an approach last year. Labour, ably
assisted by people like you, responded by screaming "Dementia tax!
DEMENTIA TAX!" You've got a fucking nerve complaining now that the
Tories have backed off.
I was extremely frustrated to how that played out because it was very
clear that the majority of people in the UK had (or have) no idea what
people have to pay now, how it works, and that the Tories proposals in
some ways would mean people had to pay less towards their care.

No effort was made by the media to explain it to the folks, and as you
say, it was labelled the "dementia tax" and that was that.

And, along with the fox hunting pledge, this ended up with the Tories
almost losing the election.

(No, it was not down to people suddenly deciding to support the Labour
manifesto because most people did not read it, but instead it was
because they were reminded the Tories are a load of heartless toffs)

Agree with the Tory proposal or not, and I acknowledge that they were
beyond stupid in the presentation of the their idea, it should have been
used as a starting position for a "national discussion" but it has just
left us with more heads in the sand than we had before.

We need a way forward rather than this bloody stupid limbo we are in
how.
Incubus
2018-03-09 09:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and disabled
- many of us will need that care eventually and many of us have aged parents
who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-
bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years after
exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of social care,
the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the verge
of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by almost 50
per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’ financial positions had
“worsened markedly” since they were last audited in 2014, with two thirds of
councils with social care responsibilities dipping into their reserves last
year.
Theresa May tried to suggest an approach last year. Labour, ably assisted by
people like you, responded by screaming "Dementia tax! DEMENTIA TAX!" You've
got a fucking nerve complaining now that the Tories have backed off.
Behaviour like this has led all parties to keep away from the issue if they
possibly can. But anyway, they're going to do a green paper consultation this
summer.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-set-out-proposals-to-ref
orm-care-and-support
That'll give you a chance to think up a few more meaningless slogans to
scream, while proposing nothing constructive yourselves beyond chanting "More
Money for the Public Sector! There must be more Moneeyyyyy!"
Sadly, a true reflection of Labour in opposition where their game plan is to
tear down anything the Conservatives propose reglardless of merit and simply
because they are Conservative policies. It's also hypocritical of Labour to
scream 'dementia tax' while Corbyn suggests appropriating people's houses and
increasing inheritance tax.
Tim
2018-03-09 17:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Incubus
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and disabled
- many of us will need that care eventually and many of us have aged parents
who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-
bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years after
exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of social care,
the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the verge
of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by almost 50
per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’ financial positions had
“worsened markedly” since they were last audited in 2014, with two thirds of
councils with social care responsibilities dipping into their reserves last
year.
Theresa May tried to suggest an approach last year. Labour, ably assisted by
people like you, responded by screaming "Dementia tax! DEMENTIA TAX!" You've
got a fucking nerve complaining now that the Tories have backed off.
Behaviour like this has led all parties to keep away from the issue if they
possibly can. But anyway, they're going to do a green paper consultation this
summer.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-set-out-proposals-to-ref
orm-care-and-support
That'll give you a chance to think up a few more meaningless slogans to
scream, while proposing nothing constructive yourselves beyond chanting "More
Money for the Public Sector! There must be more Moneeyyyyy!"
Sadly, a true reflection of Labour in opposition where their game plan is to
tear down anything the Conservatives propose reglardless of merit and simply
because they are Conservative policies. It's also hypocritical of Labour to
scream 'dementia tax' while Corbyn suggests appropriating people's houses and
increasing inheritance tax.
All parties have the same game plan when in opposition.
--
Please support mental health research and world community grid
http://www.mentalhealthresearchuk.org.uk/
http://mcpin.org/
https://www.mqmentalhealth.org/
https://join.worldcommunitygrid.org?recruiterId=123388
Incubus
2018-03-09 17:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us have
aged parents who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-
bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
social care, the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’ financial
positions had “worsened markedly” since they were last audited in 2014,
with two thirds of councils with social care responsibilities dipping into
their reserves last year.
Theresa May tried to suggest an approach last year. Labour, ably assisted
by people like you, responded by screaming "Dementia tax! DEMENTIA TAX!"
You've got a fucking nerve complaining now that the Tories have backed off.
Behaviour like this has led all parties to keep away from the issue if they
possibly can. But anyway, they're going to do a green paper consultation
this summer.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-set-out-proposals-to-ref
orm-care-and-support
That'll give you a chance to think up a few more meaningless slogans to
scream, while proposing nothing constructive yourselves beyond chanting
"More Money for the Public Sector! There must be more Moneeyyyyy!"
Sadly, a true reflection of Labour in opposition where their game plan is to
tear down anything the Conservatives propose reglardless of merit and simply
because they are Conservative policies. It's also hypocritical of Labour to
scream 'dementia tax' while Corbyn suggests appropriating people's houses
and increasing inheritance tax.
All parties have the same game plan when in opposition.
Perhaps I am biased but I don't see the same level of pettiness from the
Conservatives when there is a Labour government. They don't lie about Labour
policies and they don't invent emotive names for them. They are much better at
sticking to the facts and making rational arguments against any policies they
disagree with. They do engage in polemics such as calling on 'Bottler' Brown
to trigger a General Election but it's a lot more harmless and jocular than
when Labour go on the offensive.

I'm afraid I am of the view that there is something very dirty and rotten about
Labour politics. Many of them are utter scoundrels.
abelard
2018-03-09 18:10:32 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 17:55:21 -0000 (UTC), Incubus
Post by Incubus
Post by Tim
Post by Incubus
Post by The Todal
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us have
aged parents who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-
bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
social care, the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’ financial
positions had “worsened markedly” since they were last audited in 2014,
with two thirds of councils with social care responsibilities dipping into
their reserves last year.
Theresa May tried to suggest an approach last year. Labour, ably assisted
by people like you, responded by screaming "Dementia tax! DEMENTIA TAX!"
You've got a fucking nerve complaining now that the Tories have backed off.
Behaviour like this has led all parties to keep away from the issue if they
possibly can. But anyway, they're going to do a green paper consultation
this summer.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-set-out-proposals-to-ref
orm-care-and-support
That'll give you a chance to think up a few more meaningless slogans to
scream, while proposing nothing constructive yourselves beyond chanting
"More Money for the Public Sector! There must be more Moneeyyyyy!"
Sadly, a true reflection of Labour in opposition where their game plan is to
tear down anything the Conservatives propose reglardless of merit and simply
because they are Conservative policies. It's also hypocritical of Labour to
scream 'dementia tax' while Corbyn suggests appropriating people's houses
and increasing inheritance tax.
All parties have the same game plan when in opposition.
Perhaps I am biased but I don't see the same level of pettiness from the
Conservatives when there is a Labour government. They don't lie about Labour
policies and they don't invent emotive names for them. They are much better at
sticking to the facts and making rational arguments against any policies they
disagree with. They do engage in polemics such as calling on 'Bottler' Brown
to trigger a General Election but it's a lot more harmless and jocular than
when Labour go on the offensive.
I'm afraid I am of the view that there is something very dirty and rotten about
Labour politics. Many of them are utter scoundrels.
just so
but there is no way of selling socialism on rational grounds
--
www.abelard.org
Yellow
2018-03-09 19:57:14 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 17:55:21 -0000 (UTC) Incubus <incubus9536612
Post by Incubus
Post by Tim
All parties have the same game plan when in opposition.
Perhaps I am biased but I don't see the same level of pettiness from the
Conservatives when there is a Labour government. They don't lie about Labour
policies and they don't invent emotive names for them. They are much better at
sticking to the facts and making rational arguments against any policies they
disagree with. They do engage in polemics such as calling on 'Bottler' Brown
to trigger a General Election but it's a lot more harmless and jocular than
when Labour go on the offensive.
I'm afraid I am of the view that there is something very dirty and rotten about
Labour politics. Many of them are utter scoundrels.
Another example was "bedroom tax". The fact that people who lived in the
private rented sector had long lost the extra benefit to pay for homes
larger than they strictly needed was completely washed away by a two
word slogan.

Agree or do not agree with how housing benefit is paid, it would have
been nice so have the pros and cons of such a policy, not least the hope
it would free up some desperately needed larger homes, discussed rather
than have the kind of Labour politician we were treated to on Question
Time last night (Laura Pidcock) bellowing "bedroom tax!!! bedroom
tax!!!" instead.
tim...
2018-03-10 11:45:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 17:55:21 -0000 (UTC) Incubus <incubus9536612
Post by Incubus
Post by Tim
All parties have the same game plan when in opposition.
Perhaps I am biased but I don't see the same level of pettiness from the
Conservatives when there is a Labour government. They don't lie about Labour
policies and they don't invent emotive names for them. They are much better at
sticking to the facts and making rational arguments against any policies they
disagree with. They do engage in polemics such as calling on 'Bottler' Brown
to trigger a General Election but it's a lot more harmless and jocular than
when Labour go on the offensive.
I'm afraid I am of the view that there is something very dirty and rotten about
Labour politics. Many of them are utter scoundrels.
Another example was "bedroom tax". The fact that people who lived in the
private rented sector had long lost the extra benefit to pay for homes
larger than they strictly needed was completely washed away by a two
word slogan.
Agree or do not agree with how housing benefit is paid, it would have
been nice so have the pros and cons of such a policy, not least the hope
it would free up some desperately needed larger homes,
that's easy

it doesn't
JNugent
2018-03-10 13:14:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 17:55:21 -0000 (UTC) Incubus <incubus9536612
Post by Incubus
Post by Tim
All parties have the same game plan when in opposition.
Perhaps I am biased but I don't see the same level of pettiness from the
Conservatives when there is a Labour government.  They don't lie
about Labour
policies and they don't invent emotive names for them.  They are much
better at
sticking to the facts and making rational arguments against any policies they
disagree with.  They do engage in polemics such as calling on
'Bottler' Brown
to trigger a General Election but it's a lot more harmless and jocular than
when Labour go on the offensive.
I'm afraid I am of the view that there is something very dirty and rotten about
Labour politics.  Many of them are utter scoundrels.
Another example was "bedroom tax". The fact that people who lived in the
private rented sector had long lost the extra benefit to pay for homes
larger than they strictly needed was completely washed away by a two
word slogan.
Agree or do not agree with how housing benefit is paid, it would have
been nice so have the pros and cons of such a policy, not least the hope
it would free up some desperately needed larger homes,
that's easy
it doesn't
*If* not paying extra benefit for a social housing unit bigger than the
claimant needs does not cause any such tenants to downsize to a more
suitably-sized property, it must mean - at least in some cases - that
they are more content to have less than the full rent paid to them than
they would be to have a home with no spare bedrooms. In other cases, of
course, downsizing might be difficult. But it can't be impossible in
every last case.
tim...
2018-03-10 13:37:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by JNugent
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 17:55:21 -0000 (UTC) Incubus <incubus9536612
Post by Incubus
Post by Tim
All parties have the same game plan when in opposition.
Perhaps I am biased but I don't see the same level of pettiness from the
Conservatives when there is a Labour government. They don't lie about Labour
policies and they don't invent emotive names for them. They are much better at
sticking to the facts and making rational arguments against any policies they
disagree with. They do engage in polemics such as calling on 'Bottler' Brown
to trigger a General Election but it's a lot more harmless and jocular than
when Labour go on the offensive.
I'm afraid I am of the view that there is something very dirty and rotten about
Labour politics. Many of them are utter scoundrels.
Another example was "bedroom tax". The fact that people who lived in the
private rented sector had long lost the extra benefit to pay for homes
larger than they strictly needed was completely washed away by a two
word slogan.
Agree or do not agree with how housing benefit is paid, it would have
been nice so have the pros and cons of such a policy, not least the hope
it would free up some desperately needed larger homes,
that's easy
it doesn't
*If* not paying extra benefit for a social housing unit bigger than the
claimant needs does not cause any such tenants to downsize to a more
suitably-sized property, it must mean - at least in some cases - that they
are more content to have less than the full rent paid to them than they
would be to have a home with no spare bedrooms. In other cases, of course,
downsizing might be difficult. But it can't be impossible in every last
case.
It's impossible in most cases

There really isn't a supply of smaller properties for the people to move to

and even if there was the moving costs could be about 100 times the monthly
extra rent so it isn't cost effective unless you know its for the very long
term
Yellow
2018-03-10 13:44:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by tim...
Post by Yellow
On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 17:55:21 -0000 (UTC) Incubus <incubus9536612
Post by Incubus
Post by Tim
All parties have the same game plan when in opposition.
Perhaps I am biased but I don't see the same level of pettiness from the
Conservatives when there is a Labour government. They don't lie about Labour
policies and they don't invent emotive names for them. They are much better at
sticking to the facts and making rational arguments against any policies they
disagree with. They do engage in polemics such as calling on 'Bottler' Brown
to trigger a General Election but it's a lot more harmless and jocular than
when Labour go on the offensive.
I'm afraid I am of the view that there is something very dirty and rotten about
Labour politics. Many of them are utter scoundrels.
Another example was "bedroom tax". The fact that people who lived in the
private rented sector had long lost the extra benefit to pay for homes
larger than they strictly needed was completely washed away by a two
word slogan.
Agree or do not agree with how housing benefit is paid, it would have
been nice so have the pros and cons of such a policy, not least the hope
it would free up some desperately needed larger homes,
that's easy
it doesn't
You realise my post was not actually about housing benefit?
Incubus
2018-03-12 09:30:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Post by Incubus
Post by Tim
All parties have the same game plan when in opposition.
Perhaps I am biased but I don't see the same level of pettiness from the
Conservatives when there is a Labour government. They don't lie about
Labour policies and they don't invent emotive names for them. They are much
better at sticking to the facts and making rational arguments against any
policies they disagree with. They do engage in polemics such as calling on
'Bottler' Brown to trigger a General Election but it's a lot more harmless
and jocular than when Labour go on the offensive.
I'm afraid I am of the view that there is something very dirty and rotten
about Labour politics. Many of them are utter scoundrels.
Another example was "bedroom tax". The fact that people who lived in the
private rented sector had long lost the extra benefit to pay for homes larger
than they strictly needed was completely washed away by a two word slogan.
Agree or do not agree with how housing benefit is paid, it would have been
nice so have the pros and cons of such a policy, not least the hope it would
free up some desperately needed larger homes, discussed rather than have the
kind of Labour politician we were treated to on Question Time last night
(Laura Pidcock) bellowing "bedroom tax!!! bedroom tax!!!" instead.
I agree. Unfortunately, a lot of Labour voters seem to be swayed by such
outpourings as they are of a similar mentality.

BurfordTJustice
2018-03-08 16:25:11 UTC
Permalink
If their families don't want to care for them, why should the rest of the
tax payer pay for them.??




"The Todal" <***@icloud.com> wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...
: Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
: disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us have
: aged parents who need that care.
:
: But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
:
:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
:
: One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
: after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
: social care, the government’s financial watchdog has concluded.
:
: The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
: verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
: almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities’ financial
: positions had “worsened markedly” since they were last audited in 2014,
: with two thirds of councils with social care responsibilities dipping
: into their reserves last year.
Yellow
2018-03-08 18:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Social care means local councils providing care for the elderly and
disabled - many of us will need that care eventually and many of us have
aged parents who need that care.
But as with the NHS, the Tories have starved the country of resources.
Bearing in mind I do not routinely support any political party but
choose who to vote for at each election - why are you blaming the Tories
for this?

Social care *and* the NHS needs to be taken outside of politics and
instead of it being used for political gain - something all the parties
are guilty of.

The way they *all* behave, over what is so important to so many of us,
just makes me first want to weep and then to bang their heads together.

And my impression is that the Labour Party just want to pay the staff
more and more and more - which I fail to see is going to solve the bed
crisis at one of my local hospitals for example, and that seem to be
their sole policy - which is the problem as I see it.

Meanwhile the Tories just keep rearranging the deck chairs rather than
taking tough decisions like closing some units (because of local
objections) to concentrate funding and resources at more efficient
facilities.

We also need to get to grips with a proper computer system that
coordinates well, everything. Something governments simply seems unable
to deliver because civil servants have repeatedly proved themselves to
be unable to run such a project.
Post by The Todal
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/one-in-ten-councils-faces-going-bust-over-the-soaring-cost-of-elderly-care-bgjp673px
One in ten councils faces running out of money in the next three years
after exhausting its reserves to pay the dramatically rising cost of
social care, the government?s financial watchdog has concluded.
I am surprised it is only 1 in 10.
Post by The Todal
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities? financial
positions had ?worsened markedly? since they were last audited in 2014,
with two thirds of councils with social care responsibilities dipping
into their reserves last year.
The bullet needs to be bitten but if all that is going to continue to
happen is when one political party suggests a way forward for the other
(along with their supporting media) to rip it to shreds for political
gain, we are just going to continue to tumble down this rabbit hole.
The Todal
2018-03-08 23:30:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Post by The Todal
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities? financial
positions had ?worsened markedly? since they were last audited in 2014,
with two thirds of councils with social care responsibilities dipping
into their reserves last year.
The bullet needs to be bitten but if all that is going to continue to
happen is when one political party suggests a way forward for the other
(along with their supporting media) to rip it to shreds for political
gain, we are just going to continue to tumble down this rabbit hole.
If the government can't solve this, they certainly can't negotiate a
successful Brexit.

So the position is, most people will need social care for themselves or
for aged relatives. Unless they can be sure of a speedy death for
themselves or their relatives.

Put up the taxes or put up national insurance or allow councils to
increase council tax instead of imposing arbitrary limits on council tax.

Yes, you can also force people to pay more for their own care but that
is a deferred payment since it will normally be a charge on the house
payable when the person dies.

The normal way of sorting these things out when the political parties
are at loggerheads is to have a Royal Commission and abide by the
decisions of that commission. That could take years, but tax and NI
increases can be imposed immediately. The Tories doggedly refuse to do
it because their unique selling point is to be the party of low taxes.
Low taxes, rubbish public services, a failing NHS and failing social care.
Yellow
2018-03-08 23:41:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Todal
Post by Yellow
Post by The Todal
The National Audit Office (NAO) warned that many councils were on the
verge of insolvency having had their central government funding cut by
almost 50 per cent in eight years. It found that authorities? financial
positions had ?worsened markedly? since they were last audited in 2014,
with two thirds of councils with social care responsibilities dipping
into their reserves last year.
The bullet needs to be bitten but if all that is going to continue to
happen is when one political party suggests a way forward for the other
(along with their supporting media) to rip it to shreds for political
gain, we are just going to continue to tumble down this rabbit hole.
If the government can't solve this, they certainly can't negotiate a
successful Brexit.
So the position is, most people will need social care for themselves or
for aged relatives. Unless they can be sure of a speedy death for
themselves or their relatives.
Put up the taxes or put up national insurance or allow councils to
increase council tax instead of imposing arbitrary limits on council tax.
Yes, you can also force people to pay more for their own care but that
is a deferred payment since it will normally be a charge on the house
payable when the person dies.
The normal way of sorting these things out when the political parties
are at loggerheads is to have a Royal Commission and abide by the
decisions of that commission. That could take years, but tax and NI
increases can be imposed immediately. The Tories doggedly refuse to do
it because their unique selling point is to be the party of low taxes.
Low taxes, rubbish public services, a failing NHS and failing social care.
I really wish this was as simple as a few pence on income tax and NI but
as I said in my posts, I believe figuring out how this money is to be
spent is really where efforts need to be directed.
The Todal
2018-03-10 13:58:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Yellow
Post by The Todal
The normal way of sorting these things out when the political parties
are at loggerheads is to have a Royal Commission and abide by the
decisions of that commission. That could take years, but tax and NI
increases can be imposed immediately. The Tories doggedly refuse to do
it because their unique selling point is to be the party of low taxes.
Low taxes, rubbish public services, a failing NHS and failing social care.
I really wish this was as simple as a few pence on income tax and NI but
as I said in my posts, I believe figuring out how this money is to be
spent is really where efforts need to be directed.
It's okay, everyone. The councils are going to solve the problem (or at
least, reduce their underfunding problem) by hiking up the price of
public car parking.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5483779/Council-parking-charges-soar.html
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