Discussion:
At least the BBC might get it right....
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Roger
2019-10-21 20:58:25 UTC
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From BBC article:

"The whole of the UK will leave the EU customs union. The customs union is an agreement between EU countries not to charge taxes called tariffs on things coming from other EU countries, and to charge the same tariffs as each other on things coming from outside the EU."

That, of course, would be a free trade agreement, something that is being proposed in all outcomes.


The EU customs union means the total elimination of borders and hence covers goods and services. It requires anything that could cross a border to be subject to the same laws and jurisdiction.

In the EU interpretation (which is far more comprehensive than the more typical 'partial' customs unions) is also what requires countries to adopt laws voted by an EU majority in areas were the EU has exclusive competence and it must respect changes made to areas of competence that are agreed by member states.

In fact leaving the EU and staying in the CU means being governed by laws outside your control and jurisdiction.

The EU customs union, along with the Euro, is the last step before becoming a single nation.
p***@gmail.com
2019-10-21 22:06:12 UTC
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Post by Roger
"The whole of the UK will leave the EU customs union. The customs union is an agreement between EU countries not to charge taxes called tariffs on things coming from other EU countries, and to charge the same tariffs as each other on things coming from outside the EU."
That, of course, would be a free trade agreement, something that is being proposed in all outcomes.
The EU customs union means the total elimination of borders and hence covers goods and services.
Membership of the single market involves 'free movement' of people, goods, services and capital. Because EU member States are both in the CU and the single market, some people conflate the two. They are divisible.
Post by Roger
It requires anything that could cross a border to be subject to the same laws and jurisdiction.
They're subject to the same regulations. 'Free movement' is shorthand and there are exceptions to it. Food moving to and from Ireland is an example, and the need to register in the host country for provision of legal and financial services are others.

You don't have to be in the EU to be in the CU, and those third countries do have borders and do not have the single market.
Post by Roger
In the EU interpretation (which is far more comprehensive than the more typical 'partial' customs unions) is also what requires countries to adopt laws voted by an EU majority in areas were the EU has exclusive competence and it must respect changes made to areas of competence that are agreed by member states.
True, but is not restricted to customs arrangements and covers other areas, such as common regulation under the single market, or data protection.
Post by Roger
In fact leaving the EU and staying in the CU means being governed by laws outside your control and jurisdiction.
The EU customs union, along with the Euro,
Two things
Post by Roger
is the last step before becoming a single nation.
A single nation would also imply common legal systems, taxation, benefits, foreign policy, armed forces, UN representation etc. etc.

So...not all CU

Patrick
Roger
2019-10-22 06:23:23 UTC
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Post by p***@gmail.com
Membership of the single market involves 'free movement' of people, goods, services and capital. Because EU member States are both in the CU and the single market, some people conflate the two. They are divisible.
The NI debacle has done an excellent job of demonstrating of how that simply cannot work in practice. If you are in the EU customs union you must be subject to EU law and jurisdiction.
Post by p***@gmail.com
They're subject to the same regulations. 'Free movement' is shorthand and there are exceptions to it. Food moving to and from Ireland is an example,
No, food to NI is not exempt, it is subject to additional regulations, i.e. in addition to respecting all EU law it is ALSO subject to additional rules.
Post by p***@gmail.com
You don't have to be in the EU to be in the CU, and those third countries do have borders and do not have the single market.
Currently there is NO non EU country in the European customs union. Turkey, an oft cited example, is not in the EU customs union, it has a 'normal' partial customs union that covers specific goods. It's CU does not entail membership of the single market.
Post by p***@gmail.com
True, but is not restricted to customs arrangements and covers other areas, such as common regulation under the single market, or data protection.
So are we trying to fool people?

Labors proposals talk about being in the full EU CU, and they also throw in the level playing field and everything else.

Is there any practical difference between Labors proposal and being in the single market?

Labor want to propose a referendum with two choices; staying in the EU without representation and staying in the EU with representation.

Presumably they think electors won't notice the lack of a Brexit choice.

I think half the voting slips will simply have B*****X scrawled across them and UK democracy will shrink to the levels of NI.
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