It's racism when non-whites don't pass the driving test

[Fruitiest of Fruitcakes]

Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.

Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.

Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.

- - -

What a load of bullshit.

Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

[Incubus]

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

The blackamoors had not even made use of the wheel until we introduced them to
it several hundred years ago. Certain motor skills take time to be selected.

[Byker]

Post by Incubus
The blackamoors had not even made use of the wheel until we introduced
them to it several hundred years ago. Certain motor skills take time to
be selected.

Back in the grade school when I was eleven years old, we were reading the
story of Stanley and Livingstone, and our first clue at just how backward
these savages were was when we read of how Henry Stanley, setting off on his
quest in a donkey-drawn cart, attracted huge crowds of kaffirs. They'd seen
White men before, and donkeys before, but this was the first time they'd
seen -- a WHEEL! Over 6,000 natives, some of whom had traveled for weeks,
stood in astonishment at watching a wheel turn on its axle. We'd been
taking turns reading the story aloud in class, and when this little gem of
afro-ignorance was read aloud, the class' reaction could best be described
as spontaneous mass laughter. Even the teacher was cracking up...

[Incubus]

Post by Byker

Post by Incubus
The blackamoors had not even made use of the wheel until we introduced
them to it several hundred years ago. Certain motor skills take time to
be selected.

Back in the grade school when I was eleven years old, we were reading the
story of Stanley and Livingstone, and our first clue at just how backward
these savages were was when we read of how Henry Stanley, setting off on his
quest in a donkey-drawn cart, attracted huge crowds of kaffirs. They'd seen
White men before, and donkeys before, but this was the first time they'd
seen -- a WHEEL! Over 6,000 natives, some of whom had traveled for weeks,
stood in astonishment at watching a wheel turn on its axle. We'd been
taking turns reading the story aloud in class, and when this little gem of
afro-ignorance was read aloud, the class' reaction could best be described
as spontaneous mass laughter. Even the teacher was cracking up...

Such a story would be excised from the syllabus these days.

[Ian Smith]

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of
colour are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical
driving tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after
a freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass
rates (32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering
2008-17, also show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed
as part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

Yes it very likely could. Who knew that some types of people are better
at certain things than others? For example, some types of people are
champions at playing the victim card while being too lazy to improve
themselves in other endeavours.

[p***@gmail.com]

Post by Ian Smith

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of
colour are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical
driving tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after
a freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass
rates (32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering
2008-17, also show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed
as part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

Yes it very likely could. Who knew that some types of people are better
at certain things than others? For example, some types of people are
champions at playing the victim card while being too lazy to improve
themselves in other endeavours.
--
Perpetual Calendar - http://www.1r5.co
Twitter - https://twitter.com/1r5
+ 1.000 pinches of NaCl

Equally tests (of any sort) can be inadvertently skewed so the things they test are more likely to be passed by certain sub-sets of the population.

Patrick

[a***@gmail.com]

Equally tests (of any sort) can be inadvertently skewed so the things they test are more likely to be passed by certain sub-sets of the population.

Do you consider this to apply in the case of the UK driving test? If so, how so?

The test is to ensure minimum acceptable standards of driving. It is not an exercise in PC.

Ant.

[p***@gmail.com]

Post by p***@gmail.com
Equally tests (of any sort) can be inadvertently skewed so the things they test are more likely to be passed by certain sub-sets of the population.
Do you consider this to apply in the case of the UK driving test? If so, how so?
The test is to ensure minimum acceptable standards of driving. It is not an exercise in PC.
Ant.

Women are generally regarded as safer drivers than men, and pay lower insurance premiums than men as a result. One report of research is at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5092299/Women-NOT-bad-drivers-men-problem.html though there are others.

If women are safer drivers than men {generalisation alert}, but men are more likely at test to pass the 'minimum acceptable standards of driving', then it is at least possible it isn't fully testing who will drive most safely after the test. That could be the questions the test asks, the weighting of the scores, subjective marking of examiners (rewarding certain behaviours over others), a combination of factors or none at all.

Others on here derided the report. It's proper to question why pass rates are different, and whether and why it should be. Fairly uncontroversial I'd have thought.

Patrick

[JNugent]

Post by p***@gmail.com

Post by p***@gmail.com
Equally tests (of any sort) can be inadvertently skewed so the things they test are more likely to be passed by certain sub-sets of the population.
Do you consider this to apply in the case of the UK driving test? If so, how so?
The test is to ensure minimum acceptable standards of driving. It is not an exercise in PC.
Ant.

Women are generally regarded as safer drivers than men,

I don't know that that is true.

Post by p***@gmail.com
and pay lower insurance premiums than men as a result. One report of research is at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5092299/Women-NOT-bad-drivers-men-problem.html though there are others.

It is probably true that on average, women do fewer miles than men. When
I was last working, I was piling about 20,000 business miles a year onto
the car's odometer, plus a certaim amount of private mileage. My wife's
car was amassing about 5,000 - 6,000 miles a year (and I was doing some
of that). Having fewer accidents over a smaller mileage may, or may not,
be evidence of "better" driving. But either way round, it would look
better to an insurance company.

Post by p***@gmail.com
If women are safer drivers than men {generalisation alert}, but men are more likely at test to pass the 'minimum acceptable standards of driving', then it is at least possible it isn't fully testing who will drive most safely after the test...

... or that the test predicts the future driving and life patterns of
test candidates.

Post by p***@gmail.com
That could be the questions the test asks, the weighting of the scores, subjective marking of examiners (rewarding certain behaviours over others), a combination of factors or none at all.
Others on here derided the report. It's proper to question why pass rates are different, and whether and why it should be. Fairly uncontroversial I'd have thought.

Candidates who fail to demonstrate adequate control of the vehicle,
knowldege of relevant traffic law and/or a tendency to commit traffic
offences *should* be failed.

That's the whole idea.

[Basil Jet]

Post by p***@gmail.com

Post by p***@gmail.com
Equally tests (of any sort) can be inadvertently skewed so the things they test are more likely to be passed by certain sub-sets of the population.
Do you consider this to apply in the case of the UK driving test? If so, how so?
The test is to ensure minimum acceptable standards of driving. It is not an exercise in PC.
Ant.

Women are generally regarded as safer drivers than men, and pay lower insurance premiums than men as a result. One report of research is at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5092299/Women-NOT-bad-drivers-men-problem.html though there are others.
If women are safer drivers than men {generalisation alert}, but men are more likely at test to pass the 'minimum acceptable standards of driving', then it is at least possible it isn't fully testing who will drive most safely after the test.

It isn't. It tests who is *able* to drive safely. Young men are a lot
more likely to drive recklessly, but obviously they won't do that in the
test. Women are a lot more likely to drive incompetently, and obviously
they can't help doing that in the test as well. Most women on the road
drive as well as most men, but the division between bad male driving
being reckless and bad female driving being clueless is very striking.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by p***@gmail.com
Equally tests (of any sort) can be inadvertently skewed so the things they test are more likely to be passed by certain sub-sets of the population.
Do you consider this to apply in the case of the UK driving test? If so, how so?
The test is to ensure minimum acceptable standards of driving. It is not an exercise in PC.
Ant.

Women are generally regarded as safer drivers than men, and pay lower insurance premiums than men as a result. One report of research is at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5092299/Women-NOT-bad-drivers-men-problem.html though there are others.

If women are safer drivers than men {generalisation alert}, but men are more likely at test to pass the 'minimum acceptable standards of driving', then it is at least possible it isn't fully testing who will drive most safely after the test. That could be the questions the test asks, the weighting of the scores, subjective marking of examiners (rewarding certain behaviours over others), a combination of factors or none at all.

Others on here derided the report. It's proper to question why pass rates are different, and whether and why it should be. Fairly uncontroversial I'd have thought.

Patrick


I don't think that many sensible people would argue that the driving test is currently too easy. If we accept that as a reasonable view on the matter and if we also accept that women are (on average) safer drivers than men, would your preferred course of action be to make the test more stringent by including components that evaluate whatever it is that causes women to be safer drivers? In other words, would your solution to this bias problem be to fail more men, as a proportion of all candidates (and therefore fail more candidates in total)?

If the sex bias problem was sorted along the lines described above, what should we do if there remained a difference in white/black pass rates? Just how far down the line would you go to achieve equality in outcomes?

Ant.

[Fruitiest of Fruitcakes]

Post by p***@gmail.com

Post by p***@gmail.com
Equally tests (of any sort) can be inadvertently skewed so the things they
test are more likely to be passed by certain sub-sets of the population.
Do you consider this to apply in the case of the UK driving test? If so, how so?
The test is to ensure minimum acceptable standards of driving. It is not an
exercise in PC.
Ant.

Women are generally regarded as safer drivers than men, and pay lower
insurance premiums than men as a result.

This is evidence from drivers after they have passed their test, not before.

That male drivers with a full license are prone to take far more risks while
driving is well known; as is the trend for men to imagine themselves as F1
drivers in order to show off to others (real or imagined).

Insurance premiums are higher for men, especially young men, simply because
they have more accidents than women.

Women may be safer drivers than men in general, but it would appear that
during the driving test they do not reach the required standards and fail
more often than men. Whether this is due to nerves and/or an inability to
remember the correct procedures they have been taught beforehand, I don’t
know - but the point is that (whatever articles in the Guardian imply) it is
not down to sexism or racism.

[p***@gmail.com]

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by p***@gmail.com

Post by p***@gmail.com
Equally tests (of any sort) can be inadvertently skewed so the things they
test are more likely to be passed by certain sub-sets of the population.
Do you consider this to apply in the case of the UK driving test? If so, how so?
The test is to ensure minimum acceptable standards of driving. It is not an
exercise in PC.
Ant.

Women are generally regarded as safer drivers than men, and pay lower
insurance premiums than men as a result.

This is evidence from drivers after they have passed their test, not before.
That male drivers with a full license are prone to take far more risks while
driving is well known; as is the trend for men to imagine themselves as F1
drivers in order to show off to others (real or imagined).
Insurance premiums are higher for men, especially young men, simply because
they have more accidents than women.
Women may be safer drivers than men in general, but it would appear that
during the driving test they do not reach the required standards and fail
more often than men. Whether this is due to nerves and/or an inability to
remember the correct procedures they have been taught beforehand, I don’t
know -

I accept all the above

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
but the point is that (whatever articles in the Guardian imply) it is
not down to sexism or racism.

In UK law one can have indirect discrimination by output "when there's a practice, policy or rule which applies to everyone in the same way, but it has a worse effect on some people than others. The Equality Act says it puts you at a particular disadvantage" - CAB. Whether this would come within those parameters I've no idea

Patrick

[p***@gmail.com]

Post by p***@gmail.com

Post by p***@gmail.com
Equally tests (of any sort) can be inadvertently skewed so the things they test are more likely to be passed by certain sub-sets of the population.
Do you consider this to apply in the case of the UK driving test? If so, how so?
The test is to ensure minimum acceptable standards of driving. It is not an exercise in PC.
Ant.

Women are generally regarded as safer drivers than men, and pay lower insurance premiums than men as a result. One report of research is at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5092299/Women-NOT-bad-drivers-men-problem.html though there are others.
If women are safer drivers than men {generalisation alert}, but men are more likely at test to pass the 'minimum acceptable standards of driving', then it is at least possible it isn't fully testing who will drive most safely after the test. That could be the questions the test asks, the weighting of the scores, subjective marking of examiners (rewarding certain behaviours over others), a combination of factors or none at all.
Others on here derided the report. It's proper to question why pass rates are different, and whether and why it should be. Fairly uncontroversial I'd have thought.
Patrick
I don't think that many sensible people would argue that the driving test is currently too easy. If we accept that as a reasonable view on the matter and if we also accept that women are (on average) safer drivers than men, would your preferred course of action be to make the test more stringent by including components that evaluate whatever it is that causes women to be safer drivers? In other words, would your solution to this bias problem be to fail more men, as a proportion of all candidates (and therefore fail more candidates in total)?
If the sex bias problem was sorted along the lines described above, what should we do if there remained a difference in white/black pass rates? Just how far down the line would you go to achieve equality in outcomes?
Ant.

I'd only gone as far as saying it was proper to question test outcomes against post-test driver safety. As someone else pointed out, there are multiple factors at play.

I don't have any opinion on whether overall pass rates are too high or low.

I don't think it would be outrageous to say post test measures might improve road safety, whether it be periodic retests, telematics or something else. But that's another debate.

Patrick

[JNugent]

Post by p***@gmail.com

Post by Ian Smith

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of
colour are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical
driving tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after
a freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass
rates (32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering
2008-17, also show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed
as part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

Yes it very likely could. Who knew that some types of people are better
at certain things than others? For example, some types of people are
champions at playing the victim card while being too lazy to improve
themselves in other endeavours.
--
Perpetual Calendar - http://www.1r5.co
Twitter - https://twitter.com/1r5
+ 1.000 pinches of NaCl

Equally tests (of any sort) can be inadvertently skewed so the things they test are more likely to be passed by certain sub-sets of the population.

Tests (you probably mean examinations) are MEANT to passed by only
certain subsets of the population.

The obvious one is the subset who have done the requisite course of
study and the relevant work. An examination that anyone else can pass is
a waste of time and effort.

[Col]

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

It would be interesting to see the pass rate data from female and ethnic
minority examiners.

Col

[Basil Jet]

Post by Col

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

It would be interesting to see the pass rate data from female and ethnic
minority examiners.

... or from driving test simulators. Future Guardian headline...
"White men design computers to be biased against black women".

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

I actually hate driving. If they could do something to increase one's
confidence (while remaining realistic about one's ability), I'd love to
hear about it. It's just as well that the missus doesn't like being a
passenger (it makes her sick, for some reason), otherwise we would
hardly ever go anywhere.

[Fruitiest of Fruitcakes]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

I actually hate driving.

That’s interesting, because I am coming round to hating it.

I enjoyed it many decades ago when I passed my test, but recent rapid
increases in traffic volumes have made driving more and more stressful.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
If they could do something to increase one's
confidence (while remaining realistic about one's ability), I'd love to
hear about it. It's just as well that the missus doesn't like being a
passenger (it makes her sick, for some reason), otherwise we would
hardly ever go anywhere.

Unfortunately, my wife gets travel sick as well; but usually when having to
sit on the back seat of someone’s car. With me that is not a problem as
there are usually only the two of us. However, she failed two driving tests
when in her twenties and then gave up learning. Therefore I am stuck with the
driving whether I like it or not.

What makes things slightly worse is that I have a free bus pass, and could
just walk 50 yards to the bus stop and catch one of the 15 minute frequency
service from there. She does not qualify for free bus travel until next
March, so would have to pay if we wanted to go anywhere together, and due to
the travel sickness problems she has to be careful (if possible) where she
sits on the bus.

This problem is made worse by her impending retirement in the new year, as
she keeps dropping hints about holidays of the short break variety. I fear
that my future days are going to be filled by transporting her around the UK,
which is not my idea of fun. I would like someone else to do the driving,
either by coach or train - but fear that the sickness potential will rule out
coach tours, as it has already ruled out sea cruises and flying to
destinations.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

I actually hate driving.

That’s interesting, because I am coming round to hating it.
I enjoyed it many decades ago when I passed my test, but recent rapid
increases in traffic volumes have made driving more and more stressful.

I spent quite a few years on a motorbike, and it felt like a sort of
extension to the body. I never really made a natural transition to a
car, which feels like going around around in a box (which I suppose it
it), and it all just gets in the way. And yes, the roads are rather
crowded. Going down our road these days feels like doing a slalom.

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
If they could do something to increase one's
confidence (while remaining realistic about one's ability), I'd love to
hear about it. It's just as well that the missus doesn't like being a
passenger (it makes her sick, for some reason), otherwise we would
hardly ever go anywhere.

Unfortunately, my wife gets travel sick as well; but usually when having to
sit on the back seat of someone’s car. With me that is not a problem as
there are usually only the two of us. However, she failed two driving tests
when in her twenties and then gave up learning. Therefore I am stuck with the
driving whether I like it or not.
What makes things slightly worse is that I have a free bus pass, and could
just walk 50 yards to the bus stop and catch one of the 15 minute frequency
service from there. She does not qualify for free bus travel until next
March, so would have to pay if we wanted to go anywhere together, and due to
the travel sickness problems she has to be careful (if possible) where she
sits on the bus.
This problem is made worse by her impending retirement in the new year, as
she keeps dropping hints about holidays of the short break variety. I fear
that my future days are going to be filled by transporting her around the UK,
which is not my idea of fun. I would like someone else to do the driving,
either by coach or train - but fear that the sickness potential will rule out
coach tours, as it has already ruled out sea cruises and flying to
destinations.

Well, I look forward to hearing all about how that works out. :-) I've
been on a couple of cruises, which is a strange, sort of isolated way to
spend a week or two; but which was fun. The food tends to be good,
IMHO. Norway was beautiful. The Eastern Med. rather too hot for me. I
remember bouncing our lad in a buggy down (what I estimate to be) a few
thousand steps at a port at Santorini in sweltering heat. The queue for
the cable car was just too long. One of the strangest things I've ever
found myself doing.

[Basil Jet]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I
remember bouncing our lad in a buggy down (what I estimate to be) a few
thousand steps at a port at Santorini in sweltering heat.  The queue for
the cable car was just too long.  One of the strangest things I've ever
found myself doing.

You have seen Battleship Potemkin, haven't you?

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Basil Jet

I remember bouncing our lad in a buggy down (what I estimate to be) a
few thousand steps at a port at Santorini in sweltering heat.  The
queue for the cable car was just too long.  One of the strangest
things I've ever found myself doing.

You have seen Battleship Potemkin, haven't you?
http://youtu.be/VMWMq4AEyjU

No, but I'll have a look later.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Basil Jet

I remember bouncing our lad in a buggy down (what I estimate to be) a
few thousand steps at a port at Santorini in sweltering heat.  The
queue for the cable car was just too long.  One of the strangest
things I've ever found myself doing.

You have seen Battleship Potemkin, haven't you?
http://youtu.be/VMWMq4AEyjU

Similar, but we had a happier ending :-) That seems to be worth a watch.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Basil Jet

I remember bouncing our lad in a buggy down (what I estimate to be) a
few thousand steps at a port at Santorini in sweltering heat.  The
queue for the cable car was just too long.  One of the strangest
things I've ever found myself doing.

You have seen Battleship Potemkin, haven't you?
http://youtu.be/VMWMq4AEyjU

I found some pictures of those steps in Santorini. Daily Mail of all
places. Looking at them, I can hardly believe I took a buggy down
there. I don't think they mention that the donkey handlers sit around
all day getting pissed when they're not busy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5691669/Donkeys-pictured-hauling-tourists-cobbled-steps.html

[Ophelia]

Post by Basil Jet

I remember bouncing our lad in a buggy down (what I estimate to be) a few
thousand steps at a port at Santorini in sweltering heat. The queue for
the cable car was just too long. One of the strangest things I've ever
found myself doing.

You have seen Battleship Potemkin, haven't you?
http://youtu.be/VMWMq4AEyjU

I found some pictures of those steps in Santorini. Daily Mail of all
places. Looking at them, I can hardly believe I took a buggy down
there. I don't think they mention that the donkey handlers sit around
all day getting pissed when they're not busy.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5691669/Donkeys-pictured-hauling-tourists-cobbled-steps.html
==

Oh those poor donkeys!!! And you went down all those steps with a buggy??
Wow!

Heh brave lad:)))

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Basil Jet

I remember bouncing our lad in a buggy down (what I estimate to be) a few
thousand steps at a port at Santorini in sweltering heat.  The queue for
the cable car was just too long.  One of the strangest things I've ever
found myself doing.

You have seen Battleship Potemkin, haven't you?
http://youtu.be/VMWMq4AEyjU

I found some pictures of those steps in Santorini.  Daily Mail of all
places.  Looking at them, I can hardly believe I took a buggy down
there.  I don't think they mention that the donkey handlers sit around
all day getting pissed when they're not busy.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5691669/Donkeys-pictured-hauling-tourists-cobbled-steps.html
==
Oh those poor donkeys!!!  And you went down all those steps with a
buggy?? Wow!
Heh brave lad:)))

If it's a choice between that, or queue for an hour for the cable car,
I'd rather start stretching me legs. :-)

[Ophelia]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Basil Jet

I remember bouncing our lad in a buggy down (what I estimate to be) a few
thousand steps at a port at Santorini in sweltering heat. The queue for
the cable car was just too long. One of the strangest things I've ever
found myself doing.

You have seen Battleship Potemkin, haven't you?
http://youtu.be/VMWMq4AEyjU

I found some pictures of those steps in Santorini. Daily Mail of all
places. Looking at them, I can hardly believe I took a buggy down
there. I don't think they mention that the donkey handlers sit around
all day getting pissed when they're not busy.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5691669/Donkeys-pictured-hauling-tourists-cobbled-steps.html
==
Oh those poor donkeys!!! And you went down all those steps with a buggy??
Wow!
Heh brave lad:)))

If it's a choice between that, or queue for an hour for the cable car,
I'd rather start stretching me legs. :-)

==

When you get older you might not prefer that ... but then you aren't likely
to have a buggy to push:)

[Ophelia]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

I actually hate driving.

That’s interesting, because I am coming round to hating it.

I enjoyed it many decades ago when I passed my test, but recent rapid
increases in traffic volumes have made driving more and more stressful.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
If they could do something to increase one's
confidence (while remaining realistic about one's ability), I'd love to
hear about it. It's just as well that the missus doesn't like being a
passenger (it makes her sick, for some reason), otherwise we would
hardly ever go anywhere.

Unfortunately, my wife gets travel sick as well; but usually when having to
sit on the back seat of someone’s car. With me that is not a problem as
there are usually only the two of us. However, she failed two driving tests
when in her twenties and then gave up learning. Therefore I am stuck with
the
driving whether I like it or not.

What makes things slightly worse is that I have a free bus pass, and could
just walk 50 yards to the bus stop and catch one of the 15 minute frequency
service from there. She does not qualify for free bus travel until next
March, so would have to pay if we wanted to go anywhere together, and due to
the travel sickness problems she has to be careful (if possible) where she
sits on the bus.

This problem is made worse by her impending retirement in the new year, as
she keeps dropping hints about holidays of the short break variety. I fear
that my future days are going to be filled by transporting her around the
UK,
which is not my idea of fun. I would like someone else to do the driving,
either by coach or train - but fear that the sickness potential will rule
out
coach tours, as it has already ruled out sea cruises and flying to
destinations.
==

Oh dear:( What do you think you would be able to do that you could enjoy?

I have been driving for many decades and although I rarely use it, still
have my own car. I hate the idea of giving it up:(

[Fruitiest of Fruitcakes]

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) after a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, revealed as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

I actually hate driving.

That’s interesting, because I am coming round to hating it.
I enjoyed it many decades ago when I passed my test, but recent rapid
increases in traffic volumes have made driving more and more stressful.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
If they could do something to increase one's
confidence (while remaining realistic about one's ability), I'd love to
hear about it. It's just as well that the missus doesn't like being a
passenger (it makes her sick, for some reason), otherwise we would
hardly ever go anywhere.

Unfortunately, my wife gets travel sick as well; but usually when having to
sit on the back seat of someone’s car. With me that is not a problem as
there are usually only the two of us. However, she failed two driving tests
when in her twenties and then gave up learning. Therefore I am stuck with the
driving whether I like it or not.
What makes things slightly worse is that I have a free bus pass, and could
just walk 50 yards to the bus stop and catch one of the 15 minute frequency
service from there. She does not qualify for free bus travel until next
March, so would have to pay if we wanted to go anywhere together, and due to
the travel sickness problems she has to be careful (if possible) where she
sits on the bus.
This problem is made worse by her impending retirement in the new year, as
she keeps dropping hints about holidays of the short break variety. I fear
that my future days are going to be filled by transporting her around the UK,
which is not my idea of fun. I would like someone else to do the driving,
either by coach or train - but fear that the sickness potential will rule out
coach tours, as it has already ruled out sea cruises and flying to
destinations.
==
Oh dear:( What do you think you would be able to do that you could enjoy?

My intention is to try and persuade the wife to go on a posh coach trip, by
which I mean one with only 30 seats, an onboard toilet, and a hostess.

This way, I hope that if she tries it and finds the experience not as bad as
her fears, I may be able to persuade her to try another.

The other option is to go on train tours, but they tend to be less flexible
at the destination end.

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
I have been driving for many decades and although I rarely use it, still
have my own car. I hate the idea of giving it up:(

I have just realised that in 2020 it will be 50 years since I passed my
driving test.

[Ophelia]

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA)
after
a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures,
revealed
as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were victims of
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

I actually hate driving.

That’s interesting, because I am coming round to hating it.
I enjoyed it many decades ago when I passed my test, but recent rapid
increases in traffic volumes have made driving more and more stressful.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
If they could do something to increase one's
confidence (while remaining realistic about one's ability), I'd love to
hear about it. It's just as well that the missus doesn't like being a
passenger (it makes her sick, for some reason), otherwise we would
hardly ever go anywhere.

Unfortunately, my wife gets travel sick as well; but usually when having to
sit on the back seat of someone’s car. With me that is not a problem as
there are usually only the two of us. However, she failed two driving tests
when in her twenties and then gave up learning. Therefore I am stuck with the
driving whether I like it or not.
What makes things slightly worse is that I have a free bus pass, and could
just walk 50 yards to the bus stop and catch one of the 15 minute frequency
service from there. She does not qualify for free bus travel until next
March, so would have to pay if we wanted to go anywhere together, and due to
the travel sickness problems she has to be careful (if possible) where she
sits on the bus.
This problem is made worse by her impending retirement in the new year, as
she keeps dropping hints about holidays of the short break variety. I fear
that my future days are going to be filled by transporting her around the UK,
which is not my idea of fun. I would like someone else to do the driving,
either by coach or train - but fear that the sickness potential will rule out
coach tours, as it has already ruled out sea cruises and flying to
destinations.
==
Oh dear:( What do you think you would be able to do that you could enjoy?

My intention is to try and persuade the wife to go on a posh coach trip, by
which I mean one with only 30 seats, an onboard toilet, and a hostess.

This way, I hope that if she tries it and finds the experience not as bad as
her fears, I may be able to persuade her to try another.

The other option is to go on train tours, but they tend to be less flexible
at the destination end.

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
I have been driving for many decades and although I rarely use it, still
have my own car. I hate the idea of giving it up:(

I have just realised that in 2020 it will be 50 years since I passed my
driving test.
==

Yayy:) I beat you by just a few ;p

[JNugent]

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA)
after
a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, > >

revealed

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were

victims > > of

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

I actually hate driving.

That’s interesting, because I am coming round to hating it.
I enjoyed it many decades ago when I passed my test, but recent rapid
increases in traffic volumes have made driving more and more stressful.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
If they could do something to increase one's
confidence (while remaining realistic about one's ability), I'd love to
hear about it. It's just as well that the missus doesn't like being a
passenger (it makes her sick, for some reason), otherwise we would
hardly ever go anywhere.

Unfortunately, my wife gets travel sick as well; but usually when having to
sit on the back seat of someone’s car. With me that is not a problem as
there are usually only the two of us. However, she failed two driving tests
when in her twenties and then gave up learning. Therefore I am stuck with the
driving whether I like it or not.
What makes things slightly worse is that I have a free bus pass, and could
just walk 50 yards to the bus stop and catch one of the 15 minute frequency
service from there. She does not qualify for free bus travel until next
March, so would have to pay if we wanted to go anywhere together, and due to
the travel sickness problems she has to be careful (if possible) where she
sits on the bus.
This problem is made worse by her impending retirement in the new year, as
she keeps dropping hints about holidays of the short break variety. I fear
that my future days are going to be filled by transporting her around the UK,
which is not my idea of fun. I would like someone else to do the driving,
either by coach or train - but fear that the sickness potential will rule out
coach tours, as it has already ruled out sea cruises and flying to
destinations.
==
Oh dear:( What do you think you would be able to do that you could enjoy?

My intention is to try and persuade the wife to go on a posh coach trip, by
which I mean one with only 30 seats, an onboard toilet, and a hostess.
This way, I hope that if she tries it and finds the experience not as bad as
her fears, I may be able to persuade her to try another.
The other option is to go on train tours, but they tend to be less flexible
at the destination end.

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
I have been driving for many decades and although I rarely use it, still
have my own car. I hate the idea of giving it up:(

I have just realised that in 2020 it will be 50 years since I passed my
driving test.
==
Yayy:) I beat you by just a few ;p

1972 over here (first time, and despite the advice of my London mates
that Wood Green was almost impossible to get a "pass" from).

[Ophelia]

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA)
after
a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering 2008-17, also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, > >

revealed

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were

victims > > of

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a better
aptitude to driving?

I actually hate driving.

That’s interesting, because I am coming round to hating it.
I enjoyed it many decades ago when I passed my test, but recent rapid
increases in traffic volumes have made driving more and more stressful.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
If they could do something to increase one's
confidence (while remaining realistic about one's ability), I'd love to
hear about it. It's just as well that the missus doesn't like being a
passenger (it makes her sick, for some reason), otherwise we would
hardly ever go anywhere.

Unfortunately, my wife gets travel sick as well; but usually when having to
sit on the back seat of someone’s car. With me that is not a problem as
there are usually only the two of us. However, she failed two driving tests
when in her twenties and then gave up learning. Therefore I am stuck with the
driving whether I like it or not.
What makes things slightly worse is that I have a free bus pass, and could
just walk 50 yards to the bus stop and catch one of the 15 minute frequency
service from there. She does not qualify for free bus travel until next
March, so would have to pay if we wanted to go anywhere together, and due to
the travel sickness problems she has to be careful (if possible) where she
sits on the bus.
This problem is made worse by her impending retirement in the new year, as
she keeps dropping hints about holidays of the short break variety. I fear
that my future days are going to be filled by transporting her around the UK,
which is not my idea of fun. I would like someone else to do the driving,
either by coach or train - but fear that the sickness potential will rule out
coach tours, as it has already ruled out sea cruises and flying to
destinations.
==
Oh dear:( What do you think you would be able to do that you could enjoy?

My intention is to try and persuade the wife to go on a posh coach trip, by
which I mean one with only 30 seats, an onboard toilet, and a hostess.
This way, I hope that if she tries it and finds the experience not as bad as
her fears, I may be able to persuade her to try another.
The other option is to go on train tours, but they tend to be less flexible
at the destination end.

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
I have been driving for many decades and although I rarely use it, still
have my own car. I hate the idea of giving it up:(

I have just realised that in 2020 it will be 50 years since I passed my
driving test.
==
Yayy:) I beat you by just a few ;p

1972 over here (first time, and despite the advice of my London mates
that Wood Green was almost impossible to get a "pass" from).

==

Hmmm ok clever clogs <g> I have to admit it took me two goes:)))

[JNugent]

Post by JNugent

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency

(DVSA) > > after

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering

2008-17,

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, > >

revealed

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were

victims > > of

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a

better

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
aptitude to driving?

I actually hate driving.

That’s interesting, because I am coming round to hating it.
I enjoyed it many decades ago when I passed my test, but recent rapid
increases in traffic volumes have made driving more and more stressful.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
If they could do something to increase one's
confidence (while remaining realistic about one's ability), I'd

love to

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
hear about it. It's just as well that the missus doesn't like being a
passenger (it makes her sick, for some reason), otherwise we would
hardly ever go anywhere.

Unfortunately, my wife gets travel sick as well; but usually when having to
sit on the back seat of someone’s car. With me that is not a problem as
there are usually only the two of us. However, she failed two driving tests
when in her twenties and then gave up learning. Therefore I am stuck with
the
driving whether I like it or not.
What makes things slightly worse is that I have a free bus pass, and could
just walk 50 yards to the bus stop and catch one of the 15 minute frequency
service from there. She does not qualify for free bus travel until next
March, so would have to pay if we wanted to go anywhere together, and due to
the travel sickness problems she has to be careful (if possible) where she
sits on the bus.
This problem is made worse by her impending retirement in the new year, as
she keeps dropping hints about holidays of the short break variety. I fear
that my future days are going to be filled by transporting her around the
UK,
which is not my idea of fun. I would like someone else to do the driving,
either by coach or train - but fear that the sickness potential will rule
out
coach tours, as it has already ruled out sea cruises and flying to
destinations.
==
Oh dear:( What do you think you would be able to do that you could enjoy?

My intention is to try and persuade the wife to go on a posh coach trip, by
which I mean one with only 30 seats, an onboard toilet, and a hostess.
This way, I hope that if she tries it and finds the experience not as bad as
her fears, I may be able to persuade her to try another.
The other option is to go on train tours, but they tend to be less flexible
at the destination end.

I have been driving for many decades and although I rarely use it, still
have my own car. I hate the idea of giving it up:(

I have just realised that in 2020 it will be 50 years since I passed my
driving test.
==
Yayy:) I beat you by just a few ;p

1972 over here (first time, and despite the advice of my London mates
that Wood Green was almost impossible to get a "pass" from).
==
Hmmm ok clever clogs <g>  I have to admit it took me two goes:)))

Hmmm... my wife and I had not met at the time, but she passed her test
first time too.

[Ophelia]

Post by JNugent

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
Women (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/women)and people of colour
are significantly less likely than white men to pass UK practical driving
tests, according to data analysed by the Guardian.
Figures released by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency

(DVSA) > > after

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
a
freedom of information request show black women had the lowest pass rates
(32%) and white men the highest (56%). The figures, covering

2008-17,

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
also
show all women had a pass rate of 43% and all men 50%.
Women’s groups and racial equality charities said the figures, > >

revealed

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
as
part of the Guardian’s Bias in Britain series, were “depressing” and
showed that women from black and minority ethnic groups were

victims > > of

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
racist bias.
- - -
What a load of bullshit.
Could it not just be that white men have more confidence and a

better

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Fruitiest of Fruitcakes
aptitude to driving?

I actually hate driving.

That’s interesting, because I am coming round to hating it.
I enjoyed it many decades ago when I passed my test, but recent rapid
increases in traffic volumes have made driving more and more stressful.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
If they could do something to increase one's
confidence (while remaining realistic about one's ability), I'd

love to

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
hear about it. It's just as well that the missus doesn't like being a
passenger (it makes her sick, for some reason), otherwise we would
hardly ever go anywhere.

Unfortunately, my wife gets travel sick as well; but usually when having to
sit on the back seat of someone’s car. With me that is not a problem as
there are usually only the two of us. However, she failed two driving tests
when in her twenties and then gave up learning. Therefore I am stuck with
the
driving whether I like it or not.
What makes things slightly worse is that I have a free bus pass, and could
just walk 50 yards to the bus stop and catch one of the 15 minute frequency
service from there. She does not qualify for free bus travel until next
March, so would have to pay if we wanted to go anywhere together, and due to
the travel sickness problems she has to be careful (if possible) where she
sits on the bus.
This problem is made worse by her impending retirement in the new year, as
she keeps dropping hints about holidays of the short break variety. I fear
that my future days are going to be filled by transporting her around the
UK,
which is not my idea of fun. I would like someone else to do the driving,
either by coach or train - but fear that the sickness potential will rule
out
coach tours, as it has already ruled out sea cruises and flying to
destinations.
==
Oh dear:( What do you think you would be able to do that you could enjoy?

My intention is to try and persuade the wife to go on a posh coach trip, by
which I mean one with only 30 seats, an onboard toilet, and a hostess.
This way, I hope that if she tries it and finds the experience not as bad as
her fears, I may be able to persuade her to try another.
The other option is to go on train tours, but they tend to be less flexible
at the destination end.

I have been driving for many decades and although I rarely use it, still
have my own car. I hate the idea of giving it up:(

I have just realised that in 2020 it will be 50 years since I passed my
driving test.
==
Yayy:) I beat you by just a few ;p

1972 over here (first time, and despite the advice of my London mates
that Wood Green was almost impossible to get a "pass" from).
==
Hmmm ok clever clogs <g> I have to admit it took me two goes:)))

Hmmm... my wife and I had not met at the time, but she passed her test
first time too.

==

Well in my defence, I passed when I had a real driving instructor:)

My boyfriend at the time had decided he could teach me. I didn't chance it
for the second attempt:)