Discussion:
[OT] "Thank you for your sacrifice, UK!"
(too old to reply)
Pamela
2019-07-25 13:02:42 UTC
Permalink
Vice News writes:

For three years, Europeans have watched their British neighbors limp
through an unending political crisis that has already claimed two prime
ministers, bitterly divided the public, and left the country on the
brink of an economically disastrous "no-deal" exit.

Watching that horror show has inspired a sense of appreciation for the
oft-maligned EU.

Across the continent, public support for the EU has surged, while the
populist euroskeptic parties that once called for their own national
exit from the bloc have quietly changed their tune.

"This idea that a country could easily do better outside the EU has
been discredited by Brexit"

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/pajnzy/the-brexit-dumpster-fire-has-kil
led-every-major-eu-secessionist-movement

And:

Brexit has been such a debacle that it has effectively killed the
rising EU secessionist movements that, just a few years ago, appeared
poised to take hold across Western Europe.

Its impact can be seen from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean, where
virtually every influential populist, euroskeptic party that had
previously called for their own version of Brexit has changed course.

The message now is: remain, and reform from within.

Thank you for your sacrifice, UK!

[comment on the Vice News story]
Jim K..
2019-07-25 13:45:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
For three years, Europeans have watched their British neighbors limp
through an unending political crisis that has already claimed two prime
ministers, bitterly divided the public, and left the country on the
brink of an economically disastrous "no-deal" exit.
Watching that horror show has inspired a sense of appreciation for the
oft-maligned EU.
Across the continent, public support for the EU has surged, while the
populist euroskeptic parties that once called for their own national
exit from the bloc have quietly changed their tune.
"This idea that a country could easily do better outside the EU has
been discredited by Brexit"
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/pajnzy/the-brexit-dumpster-fire-has-kil
led-every-major-eu-secessionist-movement
Brexit has been such a debacle that it has effectively killed the
rising EU secessionist movements that, just a few years ago, appeared
poised to take hold across Western Europe.
Its impact can be seen from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean, where
virtually every influential populist, euroskeptic party that had
previously called for their own version of Brexit has changed course.
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
Good luck with that sPamela!
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
Joe
2019-07-25 14:06:28 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?

The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty of
Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
--
Joe
The Natural Philosopher
2019-07-25 14:13:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty of
Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
Pamela
2019-07-25 14:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty of
Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Joe
2019-07-25 14:37:04 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:25:13 +0100
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the
Treaty of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.

Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
--
Joe
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-25 15:28:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
--
*To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Fredxx
2019-07-25 19:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
Remind us, what did NSDAP stand for?


Aren't these Corbyn's ideals?

Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
The nationalization of industries
demanding a division of profits of all industries
Pamela
2019-07-25 19:29:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
Remind us, what did NSDAP stand for?
Aren't these Corbyn's ideals?
Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
The nationalization of industries
demanding a division of profits of all industries
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants. Can you believe it.
Ever been had?
Fredxx
2019-07-26 00:10:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Fredxx
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
Remind us, what did NSDAP stand for?
Aren't these Corbyn's ideals?
Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
The nationalization of industries
demanding a division of profits of all industries
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants. Can you believe it.
Ever been had?
I don't recall anyone sending them back? You must be imagining things
again.
Pamela
2019-07-26 07:17:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Pamela
Post by Fredxx
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
Remind us, what did NSDAP stand for?
Aren't these Corbyn's ideals?
Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of
rent-slavery. The nationalization of industries
demanding a division of profits of all industries
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants. Can you
believe it. Ever been had?
I don't recall anyone sending them back? You must be imagining things
again.
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in radio
progranmes thought would magically happen.

There was even a violent incident shortly after the referendum about this
which was reported in the news.
Norman Wells
2019-07-26 07:53:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Fredxx
Post by Pamela
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants. Can you
believe it. Ever been had?
I don't recall anyone sending them back? You must be imagining things
again.
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in radio
progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.

Says it all really.

Don't you realise that those who get to air are selected for their
extremist, logic-starved views in order to 'stimulate discussion', ie
provide the presenter with easy targets?

You should try it. You'd get on every time. There wouldn't be anyone
sensible listening but, hey, you'd think you've had your moment in the
spotlight.

I suggest, for example, that you put to the phone-in receptionist the
view you've expressed here in the past that trade with Europe will cease
immediately we leave the EU without a deal. That's a good one!
Post by Pamela
There was even a violent incident shortly after the referendum about this
which was reported in the news.
Was there indeed.
Pamela
2019-07-26 18:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Fredxx
Post by Pamela
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants. Can you
believe it. Ever been had?
I don't recall anyone sending them back? You must be imagining things
again.
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in radio
progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
Don't you realise that those who get to air are selected for their
extremist, logic-starved views in order to 'stimulate discussion', ie
provide the presenter with easy targets?
You should try it. You'd get on every time. There wouldn't be anyone
sensible listening but, hey, you'd think you've had your moment in the
spotlight.
I suggest, for example, that you put to the phone-in receptionist the
view you've expressed here in the past that trade with Europe will cease
immediately we leave the EU without a deal. That's a good one!
Post by Pamela
There was even a violent incident shortly after the referendum about this
which was reported in the news.
Was there indeed.
"So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins." No.
Norman Wells
2019-07-26 18:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in radio
progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
Don't you realise that those who get to air are selected for their
extremist, logic-starved views in order to 'stimulate discussion', ie
provide the presenter with easy targets?
You should try it. You'd get on every time. There wouldn't be anyone
sensible listening but, hey, you'd think you've had your moment in the
spotlight.
I suggest, for example, that you put to the phone-in receptionist the
view you've expressed here in the past that trade with Europe will cease
immediately we leave the EU without a deal. That's a good one!
"So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins." No.
You often refer to them as the source of your certain knowledge of what
Brexiteers think and want, just as you did above. So, I think you do.

I'm afraid your bald denial is rather unconvincing.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-27 13:28:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in radio
progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street thinks
from? Just curious.
--
*Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh nervously and change the subject

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Norman Wells
2019-07-27 13:44:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in radio
progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street thinks
from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street thinks,
not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they think
collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes in polls of
representative samples.

Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to be
'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little interest.
I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and articulate, not
bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
Pamela
2019-07-27 14:21:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in radio
progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street thinks
from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street thinks,
not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they think
collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes in polls of
representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to be
'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little interest.
I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and articulate, not
bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know what the
man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?

You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do *you* find
this out?

Please go ahead.
Roger
2019-07-27 16:24:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know what the
man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
Of course I can't speak for Norman, but there really have been a lot of scientific studies on why people voted Brexit. And yes, they are far more indicative than listning to radio phone ins :-)

http://csi.nuff.ox.ac.uk/?p=1153
Norman Wells
2019-07-27 16:35:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in radio
progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street thinks
from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street thinks,
not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they think
collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes in polls of
representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to be
'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little interest.
I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and articulate, not
bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know what the
man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do *you* find
this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at election
times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell me if and
when I think it important enough to go and look.
The Natural Philosopher
2019-07-27 17:00:51 UTC
Permalink
they'll tell me if and when I think it important enough to go and look.
What a trusting soul you are!

Bless!
--
Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
gospel of envy.

Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

Winston Churchill
Pamela
2019-07-27 17:32:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
they'll tell me if and when I think it important enough to go and look.
What a trusting soul you are!
Bless!
lol :)
Pamela
2019-07-27 17:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in
radio progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street
thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street
thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they
think collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes in
polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to be
'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little
interest. I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know what
the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do *you*
find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at election
times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell me if and
when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too bad. I
prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
Norman Wells
2019-07-27 17:48:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in
radio progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street
thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street
thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they
think collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes in
polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to be
'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little
interest. I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know what
the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do *you*
find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at election
times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell me if and
when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too bad. I
prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what floats
your boat, but they're actually about as representative of the
man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And
as informative.
Pamela
2019-07-27 17:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in
radio progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street
thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street
thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they
think collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes
in polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to
be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little
interest. I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know
what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do
*you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at election
times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell me if and
when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too bad.
I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what floats
your boat, but they're actually about as representative of the
man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And
as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show who
voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have fish &
chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.

You will probably deny it ever happened.
Roger
2019-07-27 18:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show who
voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have fish &
chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
And yet more realistic than those who talk about maintaining the status quo ;-)
charles
2019-07-27 18:22:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in
radio progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street
thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street
thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they
think collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes
in polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to
be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little
interest. I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know
what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do
*you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at election
times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell me if and
when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too bad.
I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what floats
your boat, but they're actually about as representative of the
man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And
as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show who
voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have fish &
chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
A great many years ago - long before the Common Market - a certain Sunday
paper published a lettter saying that of course we should drive on then
right side of tehnroad, then drivers would get out onto the pavement which
would be so much safer.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-28 09:35:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
A great many years ago - long before the Common Market - a certain
Sunday paper published a lettter saying that of course we should drive
on then right side of tehnroad, then drivers would get out onto the
pavement which would be so much safer.
Perhaps it came from a US postman?
--
*Haunted French pancakes give me the crepes.*

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
charles
2019-07-28 10:18:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by charles
A great many years ago - long before the Common Market - a certain
Sunday paper published a lettter saying that of course we should drive
on then right side of tehnroad, then drivers would get out onto the
pavement which would be so much safer.
Perhaps it came from a US postman?
This was in the 1959s. I wasm, I believe, exposing the intellegnce of
their readers and editorial staff (for publishing it).
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-28 13:00:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by charles
A great many years ago - long before the Common Market - a certain
Sunday paper published a lettter saying that of course we should drive
on then right side of tehnroad, then drivers would get out onto the
pavement which would be so much safer.
Perhaps it came from a US postman?
This was in the 1959s. I wasm, I believe, exposing the intellegnce of
their readers and editorial staff (for publishing it).
I dunno when US postmen started using RHD vehicles. Or even if they still
do.
--
*Marathon runners with bad footwear suffer the agony of defeat*

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Norman Wells
2019-07-27 19:30:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in
radio progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street
thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street
thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they
think collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes
in polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to
be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little
interest. I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know
what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do
*you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at election
times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell me if and
when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too bad.
I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what floats
your boat, but they're actually about as representative of the
man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And
as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show who
voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have fish &
chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.

If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
Pamela
2019-07-27 19:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in
radio progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the
street thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street
thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what
they think collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and
sometimes in polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to
be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little
interest. I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know
what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do
*you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at
election times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell
me if and when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too
bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what
floats your boat, but they're actually about as representative of the
man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And
as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show who
voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have fish
& chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the street
thinks about Brexit else you will persist in your strange black and white
beliefs and not understand other people properly. You have had this
difficulty for some time.
Roger
2019-07-27 20:00:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in
radio progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the
street thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street
thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what
they think collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and
sometimes in polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to
be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little
interest. I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know
what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do
*you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at
election times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell
me if and when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too
bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what
floats your boat, but they're actually about as representative of the
man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And
as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show who
voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have fish
& chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the street
thinks about Brexit else you will persist in your strange black and white
beliefs and not understand other people properly. You have had this
difficulty for some time.
Seems to me that somebody who uses polls who ask e.g. 1000 people in a controlled and balanced manner in 1000 different streets throughout the UK why they voted Brexit you are likely to get a much better idea than just making up your own mind on the basis of a few crackpots on a phone in....

BTW, an extract from a serious study:

"First, YouGov asked Leave and Remain voters to say which reason from a list of eight was the most important when deciding how to vote in the referendum. The most frequently selected reason among Leave
voters––ticked by 45%––was, ‘to strike a better balance between Britain's right to act independently, and the appropriate level of co-operation with other countries’. "

Although I know of no study that indicated chip papers, it's worth noting that in general leavers were primarily motivated by the right to make their own laws rather than being obliged to adopt laws voted by a majority of EU countries. Indirectly that does cover the case of chip papers.
Joe
2019-07-27 20:18:39 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT)
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers
phoning in radio progranmes thought would magically
happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from
phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the
street thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the
street thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more
attention to what they think collectively, eg in elections
and referendums, and sometimes in polls of representative
samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been
selected to be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are
frankly of little interest. I'd rather listen to those who
are knowledgeable and articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers
with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to
know what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find
out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so
where do *you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering
what the man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all
except at election times, is not mine but that of pollsters,
and they'll tell me if and when I think it important enough
to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says.
Too bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for
myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots
selected for their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine,
if that's what floats your boat, but they're actually about as
representative of the man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show
was of British society. And as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien
show who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you
could have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the
street thinks about Brexit else you will persist in your strange
black and white beliefs and not understand other people properly.
You have had this difficulty for some time.
Seems to me that somebody who uses polls who ask e.g. 1000 people in
a controlled and balanced manner in 1000 different streets throughout
the UK why they voted Brexit you are likely to get a much better idea
than just making up your own mind on the basis of a few crackpots on
a phone in....
"First, YouGov asked Leave and Remain voters to say which reason from
a list of eight was the most important when deciding how to vote in
the referendum. The most frequently selected reason among Leave
voters––ticked by 45%––was, ‘to strike a better balance between
Britain's right to act independently, and the appropriate level of
co-operation with other countries’. "
Although I know of no study that indicated chip papers, it's worth
noting that in general leavers were primarily motivated by the right
to make their own laws rather than being obliged to adopt laws voted
by a majority of EU countries. Indirectly that does cover the case of
chip papers.
Though it should probably be said that, growing up in an East London
borough long before the EU happened, I've never seen chips sold in
newspaper. My wife, a scouser, has.
--
Joe
Pamela
2019-07-28 10:48:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe
On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT)
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers
phoning in radio progranmes thought would magically
happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from
phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the
street thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the
street thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more
attention to what they think collectively, eg in elections
and referendums, and sometimes in polls of representative
samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been
selected to be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are
frankly of little interest. I'd rather listen to those who
are knowledgeable and articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers
with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to
know what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find
out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so
where do *you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering
what the man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all
except at election times, is not mine but that of pollsters,
and they'll tell me if and when I think it important enough
to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says.
Too bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for
myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots
selected for their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine,
if that's what floats your boat, but they're actually about as
representative of the man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show
was of British society. And as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien
show who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you
could have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the
street thinks about Brexit else you will persist in your strange
black and white beliefs and not understand other people properly.
You have had this difficulty for some time.
Seems to me that somebody who uses polls who ask e.g. 1000 people in
a controlled and balanced manner in 1000 different streets throughout
the UK why they voted Brexit you are likely to get a much better idea
than just making up your own mind on the basis of a few crackpots on
a phone in....
"First, YouGov asked Leave and Remain voters to say which reason from
a list of eight was the most important when deciding how to vote in
the referendum. The most frequently selected reason among Leave
voters––ticked by 45%––was, ‘to s
trike a better balance between
Post by Roger
Britain's right to act independently, and the appropriate level of
co-operation with other countries’. "
Although I know of no study that indicated chip papers, it's worth
noting that in general leavers were primarily motivated by the right
to make their own laws rather than being obliged to adopt laws voted
by a majority of EU countries. Indirectly that does cover the case of
chip papers.
Though it should probably be said that, growing up in an East London
borough long before the EU happened, I've never seen chips sold in
newspaper. My wife, a scouser, has.
Did they used to sell mushy peas in East London chip shops?
Joe
2019-07-28 11:21:30 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 11:48:26 +0100
Post by Pamela
Post by Joe
On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT)
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers
phoning in radio progranmes thought would magically
happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in
the street thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the
street thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more
attention to what they think collectively, eg in
elections and referendums, and sometimes in polls of
representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been
selected to be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view
are frankly of little interest. I'd rather listen to
those who are knowledgeable and articulate, not bigoted
Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want
to know what the man in the street thinks, how do *you*
find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so
where do *you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering
what the man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all
except at election times, is not mine but that of
pollsters, and they'll tell me if and when I think it
important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says.
Too bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it
for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots
selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
Fine, if that's what floats your boat, but they're actually
about as representative of the man-in-the-street as the
Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And as
informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien
show who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when
you could have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in
the street thinks about Brexit else you will persist in your
strange black and white beliefs and not understand other people
properly. You have had this difficulty for some time.
Seems to me that somebody who uses polls who ask e.g. 1000 people
in a controlled and balanced manner in 1000 different streets
throughout the UK why they voted Brexit you are likely to get a
much better idea than just making up your own mind on the basis of
a few crackpots on a phone in....
"First, YouGov asked Leave and Remain voters to say which reason
from a list of eight was the most important when deciding how to
vote in the referendum. The most frequently selected reason among
Leave voters––ticked by 45%––was, ‘to s
trike a better balance between
Post by Roger
Britain's right to act independently, and the appropriate level of
co-operation with other countries’. "
Although I know of no study that indicated chip papers, it's worth
noting that in general leavers were primarily motivated by the
right to make their own laws rather than being obliged to adopt
laws voted by a majority of EU countries. Indirectly that does
cover the case of chip papers.
Though it should probably be said that, growing up in an East London
borough long before the EU happened, I've never seen chips sold in
newspaper. My wife, a scouser, has.
Did they used to sell mushy peas in East London chip shops?
None that I visited. That was also more common in the North. The South
seemed to have a greater variety of fish, in Northern (inland) fish
shops it was often just 'fish'. In those days it was cod, of course.
--
Joe
Keema's Nan
2019-07-28 12:04:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe
On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 11:48:26 +0100
Post by Pamela
Post by Joe
On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT)
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers
phoning in radio progranmes thought would magically
happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from
phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in
the street thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the
street thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more
attention to what they think collectively, eg in
elections and referendums, and sometimes in polls of
representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been
selected to be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view
are frankly of little interest. I'd rather listen to
those who are knowledgeable and articulate, not bigoted
Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want
to know what the man in the street thinks, how do *you*
find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so
where do *you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering
what the man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all
except at election times, is not mine but that of
pollsters, and they'll tell me if and when I think it
important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says.
Too bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it
for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots
selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
Fine, if that's what floats your boat, but they're actually
about as representative of the man-in-the-street as the
Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And as
informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien
show who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when
you could have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in
the street thinks about Brexit else you will persist in your
strange black and white beliefs and not understand other people
properly. You have had this difficulty for some time.
Seems to me that somebody who uses polls who ask e.g. 1000 people
in a controlled and balanced manner in 1000 different streets
throughout the UK why they voted Brexit you are likely to get a
much better idea than just making up your own mind on the basis of
a few crackpots on a phone in....
"First, YouGov asked Leave and Remain voters to say which reason
from a list of eight was the most important when deciding how to
vote in the referendum. The most frequently selected reason among
Leave voters––ticked by 45%––was, ‘to s
trike a better balance between
Post by Roger
Britain's right to act independently, and the appropriate level of
co-operation with other countries’. "
Although I know of no study that indicated chip papers, it's worth
noting that in general leavers were primarily motivated by the
right to make their own laws rather than being obliged to adopt
laws voted by a majority of EU countries. Indirectly that does
cover the case of chip papers.
Though it should probably be said that, growing up in an East London
borough long before the EU happened, I've never seen chips sold in
newspaper. My wife, a scouser, has.
Did they used to sell mushy peas in East London chip shops?
None that I visited. That was also more common in the North. The South
seemed to have a greater variety of fish, in Northern (inland) fish
shops it was often just 'fish'. In those days it was cod, of course.
Although in the south they couldn’t bear to tell the truth to the
customers, so that Dogfish or Huss which are bottom feeding species (recycle
other fish shit) were called Rock Salmon; in the hope that people might think
they were eating salmon and chips - very posh.

In the north, the default fish was always Haddock and if you wanted Cod you
had to wait for it to be cooked specially. In the south it was the other way
around.

I doubt East London would have mushy peas, or even proper fish and chips.
They were more likely to have eel, pie and mash.
Pamela
2019-07-28 12:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe
On Sun, 28 Jul 2019 11:48:26 +0100
Post by Pamela
Post by Joe
On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:00:06 -0700 (PDT)
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
On 14:44 27 Jul 2019, Norman
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what
logic-starved Leavers
phoning in radio progranmes thought would
magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions
from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what
the man in the street thinks from? Just
curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the
man in the street thinks, not individually
anyway. I pay more attention to what they think
collectively, eg in elections and referendums,
and sometimes in polls of
representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've
been selected to be 'controversial' (ie nutters),
their view are frankly of little interest. I'd
rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted
Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you
want to know what the man in the street thinks, how
do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the
matter, so where do *you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of
discovering what the man-in-the-street thinks, if
it's necessary at all except at election times, is
not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell me
if and when I think it important enough to go and
look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone
says. Too bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and
hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots
selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
Fine, if that's what floats your boat, but they're
actually about as representative of the man-in-the-street
as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And as
informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James
O'Brien show who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back
to when you could have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper?
Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in
the street thinks about Brexit else you will persist in your
strange black and white beliefs and not understand other people
properly. You have had this difficulty for some time.
Seems to me that somebody who uses polls who ask e.g. 1000 people
in a controlled and balanced manner in 1000 different streets
throughout the UK why they voted Brexit you are likely to get a
much better idea than just making up your own mind on the basis
of a few crackpots on a phone in....
"First, YouGov asked Leave and Remain voters to say which reason
from a list of eight was the most important when deciding how to
vote in the referendum. The most frequently selected reason among
Leave voters––ticked by 45%––was, ‘to s
trike a better balance between
Post by Roger
Britain's right to act independently, and the appropriate level
of co-operation with other countries’. "
Although I know of no study that indicated chip papers, it's
worth noting that in general leavers were primarily motivated by
the right to make their own laws rather than being obliged to
adopt laws voted by a majority of EU countries. Indirectly that
does cover the case of chip papers.
Though it should probably be said that, growing up in an East
London borough long before the EU happened, I've never seen chips
sold in newspaper. My wife, a scouser, has.
Did they used to sell mushy peas in East London chip shops?
None that I visited. That was also more common in the North. The South
seemed to have a greater variety of fish, in Northern (inland) fish
shops it was often just 'fish'. In those days it was cod, of course.
Although in the south they couldn't bear to tell the truth to the
customers, so that Dogfish or Huss which are bottom feeding species
(recycle other fish shit) were called Rock Salmon; in the hope that
people might think they were eating salmon and chips - very posh.
So called "Rock Salmon" is a member of the shark family and as such
urinates through its skin which may be why it has a slightly odd taste.

I'm not sure but I believe Dogfish and Huss may fall into the same
category.

To my taste, none of them are as good as cod or haddock.
In the north, the default fish was always Haddock and if you wanted Cod
you had to wait for it to be cooked specially. In the south it was the
other way around.
Interesting difference.
I doubt East London would have mushy peas, or even proper fish and
chips. They were more likely to have eel, pie and mash.
Norman Wells
2019-07-27 20:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at
election times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell
me if and when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too
bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what
floats your boat, but they're actually about as representative of the
man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And
as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show who
voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have fish
& chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the street
thinks about Brexit
That's not a man or woman in the street, it's a nutter on a phone-in.

It's not understanding that difference that has got you so confused.
Pamela
2019-07-28 10:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what
the man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at
election times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll
tell me if and when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too
bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what
floats your boat, but they're actually about as representative of
the man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British
society. And as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show
who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have
fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the
street thinks about Brexit
That's not a man or woman in the street, it's a nutter on a phone-in.
It's not understanding that difference that has got you so confused.
It's a random sample drawn from the people of Britain. Very strange it is
too. It shows what lunatic logic some Brexiteers are using.
Roger
2019-07-28 10:46:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what
the man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at
election times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll
tell me if and when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too
bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what
floats your boat, but they're actually about as representative of
the man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British
society. And as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show
who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have
fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the
street thinks about Brexit
That's not a man or woman in the street, it's a nutter on a phone-in.
It's not understanding that difference that has got you so confused.
It's a random sample drawn from the people of Britain. Very strange it is
too. It shows what lunatic logic some Brexiteers are using.
It's not a random sample, journalists seek the most sensationalist views.

There are no shortage of lunatics, might just as well quote the person who wanted to remain in the EU because "European cities are so much nicer with their cafes on the pavement and everything".

At the end of the day the argument does fall within the most cited reason for people voting Brexit: THe desire to have control over the laws and rules rather than have them dictated from above. Extreme example, but it fits.
Norman Wells
2019-07-28 10:48:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show
who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have
fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the
street thinks about Brexit
That's not a man or woman in the street, it's a nutter on a phone-in.
It's not understanding that difference that has got you so confused.
It's a random sample drawn from the people of Britain. Very strange it is
too. It shows what lunatic logic some Brexiteers are using.
You have a very strange, illogical, unscientific, non-statistical view
of 'random sample'.

Those who phone in are self-selecting, not random.

Those who make it to air are selected by those with an agenda. Not random.

They are self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.

Hardly representative.
Pamela
2019-07-28 11:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show
who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could
have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the
street thinks about Brexit
That's not a man or woman in the street, it's a nutter on a phone-in.
It's not understanding that difference that has got you so confused.
It's a random sample drawn from the people of Britain. Very strange it
is too. It shows what lunatic logic some Brexiteers are using.
You have a very strange, illogical, unscientific, non-statistical view
of 'random sample'.
Those who phone in are self-selecting, not random.
Those who make it to air are selected by those with an agenda. Not random.
They are self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
Hardly representative.
No one claims it was representative. What I said is that "It shows what
lunatic logic some Brexiteers are using".
Norman Wells
2019-07-28 11:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show
who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could
have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the
street thinks about Brexit
That's not a man or woman in the street, it's a nutter on a phone-in.
It's not understanding that difference that has got you so confused.
It's a random sample drawn from the people of Britain. Very strange it
is too. It shows what lunatic logic some Brexiteers are using.
You have a very strange, illogical, unscientific, non-statistical view
of 'random sample'.
Those who phone in are self-selecting, not random.
Those who make it to air are selected by those with an agenda. Not random.
They are self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
Hardly representative.
No one claims it was representative. What I said is that "It shows what
lunatic logic some Brexiteers are using".
It actually show what lunatic logic one phone-in nutter uses. You then
generalise up to what 'Brexiteers' think. Don't deny it, you do it all
the time.

And it means you do regard such nutters as representative.
dennis@home
2019-07-28 12:52:41 UTC
Permalink
On 28/07/2019 12:25, Norman Wells wrote:
8<
It actually show what lunatic logic one phone-in nutter uses.  You then
generalise up to what 'Brexiteers' think.  Don't deny it, you do it all
the time.
The brexiteers here generalise on what brexiteers think.. they all claim
that all brexiteers want the same thing for instance.

I believe you also generalise on what brexiteers think.
And it means you do regard such nutters as representative.
Norman Wells
2019-07-28 14:36:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
8<
It actually show what lunatic logic one phone-in nutter uses.  You
then generalise up to what 'Brexiteers' think.  Don't deny it, you do
it all the time.
The brexiteers here generalise on what brexiteers think.. they all claim
that all brexiteers want the same thing for instance.
I believe you also generalise on what brexiteers think.
Only as far as them all wanting Brexit.

I thought that's what the term meant.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-28 13:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
No one claims it was representative. What I said is that "It shows what
lunatic logic some Brexiteers are using".
It actually show what lunatic logic one phone-in nutter uses. You then
generalise up to what 'Brexiteers' think. Don't deny it, you do it all
the time.
And it means you do regard such nutters as representative.
Have you ever wondered why those who I suppose you consider sensible
Brexiteers rarely seem to be heard on these programmes?

But then I'd guess you think there is a meja conspiracy to only give the
nutters air time. When all they're often doing is simply repeating what
they've read in their favourite paper.
--
*Who is this General Failure chap anyway - and why is he reading my HD? *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Norman Wells
2019-07-28 14:53:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
No one claims it was representative. What I said is that "It shows what
lunatic logic some Brexiteers are using".
It actually show what lunatic logic one phone-in nutter uses. You then
generalise up to what 'Brexiteers' think. Don't deny it, you do it all
the time.
And it means you do regard such nutters as representative.
Have you ever wondered why those who I suppose you consider sensible
Brexiteers rarely seem to be heard on these programmes?
Because they're boring. Sensible people with sensible views and
sensible shoes generally are. They may well be right, but that carries
no weight and is in fact a disadvantage when what is needed and
encouraged for a successful phone-in is a bust-up between the presenter
and a rabid nutter.

If you think they're meant to be serious discussion programmes between
people who know what they're talking about, you need to think again.
It's all about entertainment value and ratings.
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
But then I'd guess you think there is a meja conspiracy to only give the
nutters air time. When all they're often doing is simply repeating what
they've read in their favourite paper.
The more memorable ones don't apparently. They come up with complete
misunderstandings like if we leave the EU we'll be able to eat fish and
chips out of newspaper again.

The more off the wall you are, the more the phone-in programmes will
like you.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-28 13:02:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Those who make it to air are selected by those with an agenda. Not random.
You mean exactly like Farage?
--
*I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Pamela
2019-07-28 13:37:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Those who make it to air are selected by those with an agenda. Not random.
You mean exactly like Farage?
Strange thing is Farage doesn't get lunatic Remainers phoning in, whereas
James O'Brien gets plenty of lunatic Leavers.
Norman Wells
2019-07-28 14:57:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Those who make it to air are selected by those with an agenda. Not random.
You mean exactly like Farage?
Strange thing is Farage doesn't get lunatic Remainers phoning in, whereas
James O'Brien gets plenty of lunatic Leavers.
It proves my point. What they want is argument and confrontation, so
they select the callers who get to air accordingly. It's box-office.
Sensible, intelligent conversation just isn't.

If you think all callers are accepted you're very wrong.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-28 09:38:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the
street thinks about Brexit else you will persist in your strange black
and white beliefs and not understand other people properly. You have
had this difficulty for some time.
If it were just one phone in on a radio station. But the same view comes
up time and time again on vox pops, etc.
--
*The beatings will continue until morale improves *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Pamela
2019-07-28 10:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually
illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the
street thinks about Brexit else you will persist in your strange black
and white beliefs and not understand other people properly. You have
had this difficulty for some time.
If it were just one phone in on a radio station. But the same view comes
up time and time again on vox pops, etc.
Yes, the same sort of wacky thinking keeps coming up.

The James O'Brien on LBC gets dozens of such callers. I have no idea why
such people phone a radio programme to display their stupidity but they
do. Youtube has clips of the more amusing ones.
Norman Wells
2019-07-28 10:54:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually
illogical views.
You should take a greater interest in what the man or woman in the
street thinks about Brexit else you will persist in your strange black
and white beliefs and not understand other people properly. You have
had this difficulty for some time.
If it were just one phone in on a radio station. But the same view comes
up time and time again on vox pops, etc.
Yes, the same sort of wacky thinking keeps coming up.
The James O'Brien on LBC gets dozens of such callers.
And dozens of wacky thinking idiots as listeners.

The two go together, you see, like a hand in a glove.
Post by Pamela
I have no idea why such people phone a radio programme to display their stupidity but they do.
I have no idea why people listen to such a radio programme and display
their stupidity too but they do.
Post by Pamela
Youtube has clips of the more amusing ones.
If only it did of the listeners too.
Keema's Nan
2019-07-27 19:54:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in
radio progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street
thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street
thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they
think collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes
in polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to
be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little
interest. I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their
hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know
what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do
*you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at election
times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell me if and
when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too bad.
I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what floats
your boat, but they're actually about as representative of the
man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And
as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show who
voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have fish &
chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper been
considered an extreme and illogical view?

Try it sometime. (Assuming you do not consider yourself above buying fish and
chips in the first place).

Take most of the chip shop paper off when you get home, wrap the fish and
chips in a sheet of newspaper and microwave for 60 seconds or so. The
resulting smell will take you back decades.

(Unless you live in a toff area, where fish and chips are served in some
single use expanded polystyrene box-affair - then heaven help you).
Roger
2019-07-27 20:03:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in
radio progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street
thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street
thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they
think collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes
in polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to
be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little
interest. I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their
hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know
what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do
*you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at election
times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell me if and
when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too bad.
I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what floats
your boat, but they're actually about as representative of the
man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And
as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show who
voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have fish &
chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper been
considered an extreme and illogical view?
Try it sometime. (Assuming you do not consider yourself above buying fish and
chips in the first place).
Take most of the chip shop paper off when you get home, wrap the fish and
chips in a sheet of newspaper and microwave for 60 seconds or so. The
resulting smell will take you back decades.
Of Course chip shops used to use plain paper on the first layer and then add newspaper for extra insulation.
Joe
2019-07-27 20:21:57 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 20:54:43 +0100
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved
Leavers phoning in radio progranmes thought would
magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from
phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man
in the street thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in
the street thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more
attention to what they think collectively, eg in
elections and referendums, and sometimes in polls of
representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been
selected to be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view
are frankly of little interest. I'd rather listen to
those who are knowledgeable and articulate, not bigoted
Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want
to know what the man in the street thinks, how do *you*
find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so
where do *you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering
what the man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all
except at election times, is not mine but that of
pollsters, and they'll tell me if and when I think it
important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says.
Too bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for
myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots
selected for their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine,
if that's what floats your boat, but they're actually about as
representative of the man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show
was of British society. And as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien
show who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you
could have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper
been considered an extreme and illogical view?
Try it sometime. (Assuming you do not consider yourself above buying
fish and chips in the first place).
Take most of the chip shop paper off when you get home, wrap the fish
and chips in a sheet of newspaper and microwave for 60 seconds or so.
The resulting smell will take you back decades.
(Unless you live in a toff area, where fish and chips are served in
some single use expanded polystyrene box-affair - then heaven help
you).
No, in my youth, chips in my area were sold in plain white paper. I
don't believe that expanded polystyrene was common then, I didn't see
any until about the mid-Sixties, and I'm fairly sure my parents hadn't
seen it before then.
--
Joe
Keema's Nan
2019-07-27 20:39:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe
On Sat, 27 Jul 2019 20:54:43 +0100
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved
Leavers phoning in radio progranmes thought would
magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from
phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man
in the street thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in
the street thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more
attention to what they think collectively, eg in
elections and referendums, and sometimes in polls of
representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been
selected to be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view
are frankly of little interest. I'd rather listen to
those who are knowledgeable and articulate, not bigoted
Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want
to know what the man in the street thinks, how do *you*
find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so
where do *you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering
what the man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all
except at election times, is not mine but that of
pollsters, and they'll tell me if and when I think it
important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says.
Too bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for
myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots
selected for their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine,
if that's what floats your boat, but they're actually about as
representative of the man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show
was of British society. And as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien
show who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you
could have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper
been considered an extreme and illogical view?
Try it sometime. (Assuming you do not consider yourself above buying
fish and chips in the first place).
Take most of the chip shop paper off when you get home, wrap the fish
and chips in a sheet of newspaper and microwave for 60 seconds or so.
The resulting smell will take you back decades.
(Unless you live in a toff area, where fish and chips are served in
some single use expanded polystyrene box-affair - then heaven help
you).
No, in my youth, chips in my area were sold in plain white paper. I
don't believe that expanded polystyrene was common then, I didn't see
any until about the mid-Sixties, and I'm fairly sure my parents hadn't
seen it before then.
I feel your pain. My Saturday mornings in the late 1950s were to collect old
newspapers from the occupants of the street where we lived and then, after my
Dad had tied them into bundles, we delivered them to the local chip shops in
the area.

I know fish and chips were still wrapped in newspaper well into the 1970s.

I’m not sure if it was an EU regulation which specifically banned newsprint
from possibly coming into contact with hot food; but most Brexiteers do not
want this kind of nanny state interference. They are quite capable of making
their own decisions, without interference from politicians and bureaucrats.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-28 09:45:34 UTC
Permalink
I‘m not sure if it was an EU regulation which specifically banned
newsprint from possibly coming into contact with hot food; but most
Brexiteers do not want this kind of nanny state interference. They are
quite capable of making their own decisions, without interference from
politicians and bureaucrats.
Until they get food poisoning or whatever. Then scream 'why wasn't
something done'.
--
*Funny, I don't remember being absent minded.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Pamela
2019-07-28 10:30:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
I‘m not sure if it was an EU regulation which specifically banned
newsprint from possibly coming into contact with hot food; but most
Brexiteers do not want this kind of nanny state interference. They are
quite capable of making their own decisions, without interference from
politicians and bureaucrats.
Until they get food poisoning or whatever. Then scream 'why wasn't
something done'.
Here's a written account of the phone-in caller.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brexiteer-looking-forward-to-
getting-fish-and-chips-served-in-newspaper-back-discovers-its-a-uk-law/19/07/
charles
2019-07-27 20:25:08 UTC
Permalink
On 27 Jul 2019, Norman Wells wrote (in article
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in
radio progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street
thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street
thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they
think collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes
in polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been selected to
be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view are frankly of little
interest. I'd rather listen to those who are knowledgeable and
articulate, not bigoted Uber drivers with excess time on their
hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to know
what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so where do
*you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering what the
man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all except at election
times, is not mine but that of pollsters, and they'll tell me if and
when I think it important enough to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says. Too bad.
I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for
their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's what floats
your boat, but they're actually about as representative of the
man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show was of British society. And
as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show
who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could have
fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about self-promoting
phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually illogical views.
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper been
considered an extreme and illogical view?
Because newspaper is not what it was. Instead of using ink (and fat)
absorbent paper, itb uses paper suiatble for litho printing, so doesn't
absorb the fat

But I suspect thecaller believed it to have been banned by tehnEU.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Roger
2019-07-27 20:59:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Because newspaper is not what it was. Instead of using ink (and fat)
absorbent paper, itb uses paper suiatble for litho printing, so doesn't
absorb the fat
But I suspect thecaller believed it to have been banned by tehnEU.
The reason you cannot use news paper is because food must be packaged using approved materials and news paper is not on the list :D

Adding newspaper to the list would require EU approval. Whether you would want to is a different matter :D

There are things some people would like to remove from the list....but that also cannot be done without the EU.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-28 09:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Keema's Nan
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper been
considered an extreme and illogical view?
Because newspaper is not what it was. Instead of using ink (and fat)
absorbent paper, itb uses paper suiatble for litho printing, so doesn't
absorb the fat
But I suspect thecaller believed it to have been banned by tehnEU.
And, of course, there's nothing like the supply of used newspaper there
once was. In the days when most had a paper delivered. Unless you want
your food wrapped in Metros left on the bus.
--
*Eat well, stay fit, die anyway

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
dennis@home
2019-07-28 13:04:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by charles
Post by Keema's Nan
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper been
considered an extreme and illogical view?
Because newspaper is not what it was. Instead of using ink (and fat)
absorbent paper, itb uses paper suiatble for litho printing, so doesn't
absorb the fat
But I suspect thecaller believed it to have been banned by tehnEU.
And, of course, there's nothing like the supply of used newspaper there
once was. In the days when most had a paper delivered. Unless you want
your food wrapped in Metros left on the bus.
As a child I used to collect newspapers and sell them to fish and chip
shops.

I would never eat fish and chips in the papers I collected.

The only clean papers were the ones that were returned to the printers
unsold.

Of course the inks were a bit toxic too.
Pamela
2019-07-28 10:32:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
On 27 Jul 2019, Norman Wells wrote (in article
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved
Leavers phoning in radio progranmes thought would
magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from
phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in
the street thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the
street thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more
attention to what they think collectively, eg in
elections and referendums, and sometimes
in polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been
selected to be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view
are frankly of little interest. I'd rather listen to
those who are knowledgeable and articulate, not bigoted
Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to
know what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find
out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so
where do *you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering
what the man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all
except at election times, is not mine but that of pollsters,
and they'll tell me if and when I think it important enough
to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says.
Too bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for
myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected
for their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's
what floats your boat, but they're actually about as
representative of the man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show
was of British society. And as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show
who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could
have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually
illogical views.
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper
been considered an extreme and illogical view?
Because newspaper is not what it was. Instead of using ink (and fat)
absorbent paper, itb uses paper suiatble for litho printing, so doesn't
absorb the fat
But I suspect thecaller believed it to have been banned by tehnEU.
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do with
it.
Roger
2019-07-28 10:49:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by charles
On 27 Jul 2019, Norman Wells wrote (in article
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved
Leavers phoning in radio progranmes thought would
magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from
phone-ins.
Says it all really.
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in
the street thinks from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the
street thinks, not individually anyway. I pay more
attention to what they think collectively, eg in
elections and referendums, and sometimes
in polls of representative samples.
Taken on their own, though, especially if they've been
selected to be 'controversial' (ie nutters), their view
are frankly of little interest. I'd rather listen to
those who are knowledgeable and articulate, not bigoted
Uber drivers with excess time on their hands.
That didn't answer the question. Whether or not you want to
know what the man in the street thinks, how do *you* find
out?
You seems to have a lot of opinions about the matter, so
where do *you* find this out?
Please go ahead.
I don't actually need to find out. The job of discovering
what the man-in-the-street thinks, if it's necessary at all
except at election times, is not mine but that of pollsters,
and they'll tell me if and when I think it important enough
to go and look.
You use second or third hand knowledge of what someone says.
Too bad. I prefer to use first hand knowledge and hear it for
myself.
From a limited number of self-promoting phone-in bigots selected
for their extreme and usually illogical views. Fine, if that's
what floats your boat, but they're actually about as
representative of the man-in-the-street as the Jeremy Kyle show
was of British society. And as informative.
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show
who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could
have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually
illogical views.
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper
been considered an extreme and illogical view?
Because newspaper is not what it was. Instead of using ink (and fat)
absorbent paper, itb uses paper suiatble for litho printing, so doesn't
absorb the fat
But I suspect thecaller believed it to have been banned by tehnEU.
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do with
it.
Actually it does. In fact it's an area were the EU has 'exclusive competence'. They make regulations that automatically pass into UK law. The UK cannot make up it's own laws on UK packaging.
Norman Wells
2019-07-28 11:20:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by charles
On 27 Jul 2019, Norman Wells wrote (in article
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show
who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could
have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and usually
illogical views.
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper
been considered an extreme and illogical view?
Because newspaper is not what it was. Instead of using ink (and fat)
absorbent paper, itb uses paper suiatble for litho printing, so doesn't
absorb the fat
But I suspect thecaller believed it to have been banned by tehnEU.
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do with
it.
Of course it is, dear. Would you like me to take you back to the
day-room now?
Pamela
2019-07-28 12:39:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
Post by charles
On 27 Jul 2019, Norman Wells wrote (in article
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Pamela
I guess you didn't hear the recent caller to the James O'Brien show
who voted Brexit because she wanted to go back to when you could
have fish & chips wrapped in newspaper? Crazy.
You will probably deny it ever happened.
No, I don't *CARE* if it happened.
If it did, though, it's just proof of what I said about
self-promoting phone-in bigots selected for their extreme and
usually illogical views.
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper
been considered an extreme and illogical view?
Because newspaper is not what it was. Instead of using ink (and fat)
absorbent paper, itb uses paper suiatble for litho printing, so
doesn't absorb the fat
But I suspect thecaller believed it to have been banned by tehnEU.
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do
with it.
Of course it is, dear. Would you like me to take you back to the
day-room now?
How do you account for the woman on LBC who wanted Brexit so she could
once again eat fish and chips in newspaper, even though that change never
had nothing to do with the EU.

That sort of Brexiteer logic is plain bonkers!
Roger
2019-07-28 12:31:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do with
it.
You believe the UK can have laws on packaging which are not dictated by the EU, or can adopt regulations which conflict with the EU regulations?

The EU does not make UK laws, it obliges the UK to make laws and regulations which it defines.

The EU is a very transparent organisation; why don't you actually go and read about they do on their own website instead of just believing anything posted on YouTube or FB....let alone nutters on phone in programs.

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:02002L0072-20091109
Pamela
2019-07-28 12:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger
Post by Pamela
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do
with it.
You believe the UK can have laws on packaging which are not dictated by
the EU, or can adopt regulations which conflict with the EU regulations?
The EU does not make UK laws, it obliges the UK to make laws and
regulations which it defines.
The EU is a very transparent organisation; why don't you actually go and
read about they do on their own website instead of just believing
anything posted on YouTube or FB....let alone nutters on phone in
programs.
02002L0072-20091109
Hi Roger

I just caught your post as it was the only new one and my reader beeps on new
posts even if you're in the killfile.

Long time no see. Hope you're managing to get GG under control and reply to
the right message and with the right quoted text. I doubt it will last, so I
will keep you filtered if you don't mind.

Anyway I can see you haven't been reading my posts just as I haven't been
reading yours, which may be why you have misunderstood my position and stated
it as the exact opposite of what I believe.

All for now.
dennis@home
2019-07-28 13:08:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do with
it.
Some idiot at the QE brought up the bent banana myth today while I
waiting for my CT scan.

He just wouldn't believe that he had been lied to and that there has
never been an EU ban on bent bananas.
Pamela
2019-07-28 13:41:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Pamela
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do with
it.
Some idiot at the QE brought up the bent banana myth today while I
waiting for my CT scan.
He just wouldn't believe that he had been lied to and that there has
never been an EU ban on bent bananas.
That is the real achievement of the Leave campaign -- a persistent mass
delusion. Goebbels would be impressed.
Roger
2019-07-28 14:10:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
He just wouldn't believe that he had been lied to and that there has
never been an EU ban on bent bananas.
Or maybe you have been lied to:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1564322880714&uri=CELEX:31994R2257

It would be much better if these holier than though anti Brexiters actually went and read EU publications once in a while.
Keema's Nan
2019-07-28 14:35:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Pamela
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do with
it.
Some idiot at the QE brought up the bent banana myth today while I
waiting for my CT scan.
He just wouldn't believe that he had been lied to and that there has
never been an EU ban on bent bananas.
Although you will admit to there being an EU regulation which states -
bananas must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature.â€

Free from abnormal curvature may mean different things to different people,
but to to insist that there has never been a ban on bent ones is the sort of
extreme interpretation one used to get only from the regular boring arsehole
in the pub.
dennis@home
2019-07-28 14:53:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by ***@home
Post by Pamela
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do with
it.
Some idiot at the QE brought up the bent banana myth today while I
waiting for my CT scan.
He just wouldn't believe that he had been lied to and that there has
never been an EU ban on bent bananas.
Although you will admit to there being an EU regulation which states -
bananas must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature.â€
No there isn't!

There is an EU regulation that states it must be free from malformation
or abnormal curvature to be called class 1, so it falls into class 2.

So there is no ban and never has been.

You were lied to by the brexiteer press and you fell for it!

I think the term is "you are a mug".
Post by Keema's Nan
Free from abnormal curvature may mean different things to different people,
but to to insist that there has never been a ban on bent ones is the sort of
extreme interpretation one used to get only from the regular boring arsehole
in the pub.
You are just wrong as usual.
Don't expect everyone else to be a mug just because you are.

BTW do you want to buy a bridge?
Roger
2019-07-28 15:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
There is an EU regulation that states it must be free from malformation
or abnormal curvature to be called class 1, so it falls into class 2.
So there is no ban and never has been.
So you have failed to understand that the issue is not with the curvature of the banana per se?
Keema's Nan
2019-07-28 15:06:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@home
Post by Keema's Nan
Post by ***@home
Post by Pamela
The Brexiteer modus operandi is to blame any change on the EU, even if
it's an improvement. It doesn't matter if the EU had nothing to do with
it.
Some idiot at the QE brought up the bent banana myth today while I
waiting for my CT scan.
He just wouldn't believe that he had been lied to and that there has
never been an EU ban on bent bananas.
Although you will admit to there being an EU regulation which states -
bananas must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature.â€
No there isn't!
Yes there is. And note the “in all classes” phrase at the very beginning.
Post by ***@home
There is an EU regulation that states it must be free from malformation
or abnormal curvature to be called class 1, so it falls into class 2.
Try again.

EU regulation 1333/2011

Annexe 1A

A.Minimum requirements

In all classes, subject to the special provisions for each class and the
tolerances allowed, the bananas must be:

—

green and unripened,

—

intact,

—

firm,

—

sound; produce affected by rotting or deterioration such as to make it unfit
for consumption is excluded,

—

clean, practically free from visible foreign matter,

—

practically free from pests,

—

practically free from damage caused by pests,

—

with the stalk intact, without bending, fungal damage or dessication,

—

with pistils removed,

—

free from malformation or abnormal curvature of the fingers,

—

practically free from bruises,

—

practically free from damage due to low temperatures,

—

free from abnormal external moisture,

—

free from any foreign smell and/or taste.

In addition, hands and clusters (parts of hands) must include:

—

a sufficient portion of crown of normal colouring, sound and free from fungal
contamination,

—

a cleanly cut crown, not beveled or torn, with no stalk fragments.

The physical development and ripeness of the bananas must be such as to
enable them to:

—

withstand transport and handling,

and

—

arrive in satisfactory condition at the place of destination in order to
attain an appropriate degree of maturity after ripening.
Post by ***@home
So there is no ban and never has been.
You were lied to by the brexiteer press and you fell for it!
I think the term is "you are a mug".
Post by Keema's Nan
Free from abnormal curvature may mean different things to different people,
but to to insist that there has never been a ban on bent ones is the sort of
extreme interpretation one used to get only from the regular boring arsehole
in the pub.
You are just wrong as usual.
Don't expect everyone else to be a mug just because you are.
BTW do you want to buy a bridge?
Norman Wells
2019-07-27 20:29:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keema's Nan
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper been
considered an extreme and illogical view?
Try it sometime. (Assuming you do not consider yourself above buying fish and
chips in the first place).
Take most of the chip shop paper off when you get home, wrap the fish and
chips in a sheet of newspaper and microwave for 60 seconds or so. The
resulting smell will take you back decades.
But makes the contents inedible.

Microwaving anything fried is utter anathema to anyone of taste or
discernment.

Besides, I doubt if there is any difference between microwaving in
newspaper and any other paper. There's no reason why there should be.
Keema's Nan
2019-07-27 21:01:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Keema's Nan
Since when, has wanting to have fish and chips wrapped in newspaper been
considered an extreme and illogical view?
Try it sometime. (Assuming you do not consider yourself above buying fish and
chips in the first place).
Take most of the chip shop paper off when you get home, wrap the fish and
chips in a sheet of newspaper and microwave for 60 seconds or so. The
resulting smell will take you back decades.
But makes the contents inedible.
Microwaving anything fried is utter anathema to anyone of taste or
discernment.
Spoken like a true snob.
Post by Norman Wells
Besides, I doubt if there is any difference between microwaving in
newspaper and any other paper. There's no reason why there should be.
Roger
2019-07-27 21:20:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Besides, I doubt if there is any difference between microwaving in
newspaper and any other paper. There's no reason why there should be.
It's what will migrate.

Here is the latest update on food packaging law (mostly regarding plastics, but if not here than paper is covered in earlier rules...):

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:012:0001:0089:EN:PDF


In effect being a regulation this became effective in the UK without passing through parliament.

It details limits on ho much material can migrate or leech from the packaging to the food; as well as the manner in which this should be tested.

Sounds good. But then you find that the very tight limits being imposed means that the materials are in effect very non degradable.

Conversely, people trying to develop products that are more eco friendly find that they may well fall foul of these very strict regulations, even if there is no health issue.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-27 15:11:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norman Wells
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
So where do you get your opinions about what the man in the street thinks
from? Just curious.
I don't think I am very interested in what the man in the street thinks,
not individually anyway. I pay more attention to what they think
collectively, eg in elections and referendums, and sometimes in polls of
representative samples.
That may well tell you how they vote, but not the reasons behind why they
voted that way.
--
*All generalizations are false.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Roger
2019-07-28 10:41:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
That may well tell you how they vote, but not the reasons behind why they
voted that way.
So what about the many polls that asked people why they voted the way they did?
dennis@home
2019-07-26 14:13:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Fredxx
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Joe
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to  justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt!  Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
Remind us, what did NSDAP stand for?
Aren't these Corbyn's ideals?
Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of
rent-slavery.
The nationalization of industries
demanding a division of profits of all industries
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants.  Can you
believe it.
Ever been had?
I don't recall anyone sending them back? You must be imagining things
again.
May sent loads back.
Some of them here legally.
critcher
2019-07-27 18:46:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Fredxx
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
Remind us, what did NSDAP stand for?
Aren't these Corbyn's ideals?
Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
The nationalization of industries
demanding a division of profits of all industries
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants. Can you believe it.
Ever been had?
sounds good to me.
Vidcapper
2019-07-26 06:04:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
When the shoe fits...
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Incubus
2019-07-26 09:06:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty of
Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Godwin's law doesn't count when the comparison is accurate.
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-25 15:26:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
Yet only the UK out of 27 considers itself reduced to 'vassalage', as you
put it.

And if you actually understood what that word meant, in absolutely no way
could it be applied to true socialism. Or the watered down type favoured
by so many civilised societies.

But carry on with your ranting. I like a wane smile most days.
--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
2019-07-25 17:39:17 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty of
Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been an
eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part kept
under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be propogated by
the morons who couldn't question anything or even function mentally
beyond a base tribal instinct.

Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.

If this is a nasty EU plot to overthrow civilisation, then bring it
on!!



At least you have equipped yourselves with the right leadership now.

I really do think you have the correct "tools" in place to provide a
fitting destiny for what remains of the UK.

One is going to have some amusing times shortly, I can feel it in me
water!!

AB
Pamela
2019-07-25 19:01:48 UTC
Permalink
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty
of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been an
eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part kept
under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be propogated by
the morons who couldn't question anything or even function mentally
beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work, where
private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune for water,
and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
If this is a nasty EU plot to overthrow civilisation, then bring it on!!
At least you have equipped yourselves with the right leadership now.
I really do think you have the correct "tools" in place to provide a
fitting destiny for what remains of the UK.
One is going to have some amusing times shortly, I can feel it in me
water!!
AB
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
2019-07-25 19:01:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty
of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been an
eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part kept
under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be propogated by
the morons who couldn't question anything or even function mentally
beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work, where
private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune for water,
and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris
wants to put a border across.

Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by
ferry. He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the
same.

My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values.
So one is a European, Irish and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate
of pay, but the odd thing is that there are no Polish people on site.
Dublin was brimming with them when I did my last project there, but
all the Engineers and contractors are actually Irish.

One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside
the box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very
refreshing. One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.

AB
Pamela
2019-07-25 22:28:05 UTC
Permalink
On 20:01 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty
of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem,
not part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been an
eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part kept
under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be propogated by
the morons who couldn't question anything or even function mentally
beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris wants
to put a border across.
Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by ferry.
He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the same.
My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values. So one is a European, Irish
and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate of pay, but the odd thing is
that there are no Polish people on site. Dublin was brimming with them
when I did my last project there, but all the Engineers and contractors
are actually Irish.
One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside the
box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very refreshing.
One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.
AB
Interesting perspective.
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
2019-07-25 22:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
On 20:01 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty
of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem,
not part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been an
eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part kept
under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be propogated by
the morons who couldn't question anything or even function mentally
beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris wants
to put a border across.
Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by ferry.
He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the same.
My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values. So one is a European, Irish
and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate of pay, but the odd thing is
that there are no Polish people on site. Dublin was brimming with them
when I did my last project there, but all the Engineers and contractors
are actually Irish.
One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside the
box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very refreshing.
One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.
AB
Interesting perspective.
A natural one. The "Engineers" that are the products of the UK
educational system are dull clones. The natural result of bums on seat
degrees that are the conservatives answer to youth unemployment.

I spent a year working with UK Engineers. I used to communicate via a
Spanish colleague. He had the patience to translate my communications
to idiotspeak and the temperement to persist with attempts to
communicate the patently obvious without killing the morons.

I do believe the Engineers that went to Uni when there was state
support and people made a more dedicated career choice were far better
than those thrown up from these mix & match courses that seem more
geared to ramp up student debt than do anything useful.

AB
Pamela
2019-07-26 07:13:33 UTC
Permalink
On 23:51 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 20:01 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100 Pamela
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the
Treaty of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of
new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been
an eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part
kept under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be
propogated by the morons who couldn't question anything or even
function mentally beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris
wants to put a border across.
Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by
ferry. He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the
same.
My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values. So one is a European,
Irish and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate of pay, but the odd
thing is that there are no Polish people on site. Dublin was brimming
with them when I did my last project there, but all the Engineers and
contractors are actually Irish.
One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside
the box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very
refreshing. One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.
AB
Interesting perspective.
A natural one. The "Engineers" that are the products of the UK
educational system are dull clones. The natural result of bums on seat
degrees that are the conservatives answer to youth unemployment.
I spent a year working with UK Engineers. I used to communicate via a
Spanish colleague. He had the patience to translate my communications
to idiotspeak and the temperement to persist with attempts to
communicate the patently obvious without killing the morons.
I do believe the Engineers that went to Uni when there was state support
and people made a more dedicated career choice were far better than
those thrown up from these mix & match courses that seem more geared to
ramp up student debt than do anything useful.
AB
One problem is the UK doesn't value genuine engineers or high level
practical skills enough. One valued background in the UK is the unkempt
Oxbridge amateur generalist. Boris is one. Rees-Mogg is another. The UK
civil service has many such people.

They know too little about making things. As generalists they're one step
ahead of their next disaster and will make sure they are elsewhere when it
occurs. Maybe this is from the days of Empire. Who knows.

Meanwhile a technocracy in other countries is generating wealth and
forging the future.
Shahryar
2019-07-26 09:02:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
On 23:51 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 20:01 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100 Pamela
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the
Treaty of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of
new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been
an eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part
kept under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be
propogated by the morons who couldn't question anything or even
function mentally beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris
wants to put a border across.
Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by
ferry. He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the
same.
My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values. So one is a European,
Irish and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate of pay, but the odd
thing is that there are no Polish people on site. Dublin was brimming
with them when I did my last project there, but all the Engineers and
contractors are actually Irish.
One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside
the box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very
refreshing. One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.
AB
Interesting perspective.
A natural one. The "Engineers" that are the products of the UK
educational system are dull clones. The natural result of bums on seat
degrees that are the conservatives answer to youth unemployment.
I spent a year working with UK Engineers. I used to communicate via a
Spanish colleague. He had the patience to translate my communications
to idiotspeak and the temperement to persist with attempts to
communicate the patently obvious without killing the morons.
I do believe the Engineers that went to Uni when there was state support
and people made a more dedicated career choice were far better than
those thrown up from these mix & match courses that seem more geared to
ramp up student debt than do anything useful.
AB
One problem is the UK doesn't value genuine engineers or high level
practical skills enough. One valued background in the UK is the unkempt
Oxbridge amateur generalist.
I think you mean *Oxford* amateur generalist. Actually, more Oxford advance virtual signalling, which is what it appears to boil down to. People who understand etiquette, who to know, the approved things to say. Oxford produces people who know how to manipulate people.

Cambridge produces people from the sciences. People who know how to think. People who know how to do stuff.
Post by Pamela
Boris is one. Rees-Mogg is another. The UK
civil service has many such people.
They know too little about making things. As generalists they're one step
ahead of their next disaster and will make sure they are elsewhere when it
occurs. Maybe this is from the days of Empire. Who knows.
Meanwhile a technocracy in other countries is generating wealth and
forging the future.
The UK still does science and pioneering technology. I think what it lacks is the middle layer of skilled technicians.
Keema's Nan
2019-07-26 09:32:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shahryar
On 23:51 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On 20:01 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100 Pamela
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the
Treaty of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of
new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been
an eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part
kept under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be
propogated by the morons who couldn't question anything or even
function mentally beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a
threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris
wants to put a border across.
Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by
ferry. He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the
same.
My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values. So one is a European,
Irish and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate of pay, but the odd
thing is that there are no Polish people on site. Dublin was brimming
with them when I did my last project there, but all the Engineers and
contractors are actually Irish.
One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside
the box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very
refreshing. One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.
AB
Interesting perspective.
A natural one. The "Engineers" that are the products of the UK
educational system are dull clones. The natural result of bums on seat
degrees that are the conservatives answer to youth unemployment.
I spent a year working with UK Engineers. I used to communicate via a
Spanish colleague. He had the patience to translate my communications
to idiotspeak and the temperement to persist with attempts to
communicate the patently obvious without killing the morons.
I do believe the Engineers that went to Uni when there was state support
and people made a more dedicated career choice were far better than
those thrown up from these mix & match courses that seem more geared to
ramp up student debt than do anything useful.
AB
One problem is the UK doesn't value genuine engineers or high level
practical skills enough. One valued background in the UK is the unkempt
Oxbridge amateur generalist.
I think you mean *Oxford* amateur generalist. Actually, more Oxford advance
virtual signalling, which is what it appears to boil down to. People who
understand etiquette, who to know, the approved things to say. Oxford
produces people who know how to manipulate people.
Cambridge produces people from the sciences. People who know how to think.
People who know how to do stuff.
Boris is one. Rees-Mogg is another. The UK
civil service has many such people.
They know too little about making things. As generalists they're one step
ahead of their next disaster and will make sure they are elsewhere when it
occurs. Maybe this is from the days of Empire. Who knows.
Meanwhile a technocracy in other countries is generating wealth and
forging the future.
The UK still does science and pioneering technology. I think what it lacks is
the middle layer of skilled technicians.
What it lacks is the old methods of apprenticeships and sandwich courses.

Trainee managers who have to work at the sharp end for a number of months in
every department, as part of their training.
Pamela
2019-07-26 18:24:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shahryar
Post by Pamela
On 23:51 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 20:01 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100 Pamela
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the
Treaty of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of
the problem, not part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been
an eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most
part kept under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be
propogated by the morons who couldn't question anything or even
function mentally beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a
fortune for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets,
not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris
wants to put a border across.
Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if
I felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England
was a chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching
by ferry. He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer
was the same.
My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish.
That assumes that pride can have negative values. So one is a
European, Irish and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate of pay,
but the odd thing is that there are no Polish people on site. Dublin
was brimming with them when I did my last project there, but all the
Engineers and contractors are actually Irish.
One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside
the box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very
refreshing. One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.
AB
Interesting perspective.
A natural one. The "Engineers" that are the products of the UK
educational system are dull clones. The natural result of bums on seat
degrees that are the conservatives answer to youth unemployment.
I spent a year working with UK Engineers. I used to communicate via a
Spanish colleague. He had the patience to translate my communications
to idiotspeak and the temperement to persist with attempts to
communicate the patently obvious without killing the morons.
I do believe the Engineers that went to Uni when there was state
support and people made a more dedicated career choice were far better
than those thrown up from these mix & match courses that seem more
geared to ramp up student debt than do anything useful.
AB
One problem is the UK doesn't value genuine engineers or high level
practical skills enough. One valued background in the UK is the
unkempt Oxbridge amateur generalist.
I think you mean *Oxford* amateur generalist. Actually, more Oxford
advance virtual signalling, which is what it appears to boil down to.
People who understand etiquette, who to know, the approved things to
say. Oxford produces people who know how to manipulate people.
Cambridge produces people from the sciences. People who know how to
think. People who know how to do stuff.
Cambridge's HSPS is little better than PPE.
Post by Shahryar
Post by Pamela
Boris is one. Rees-Mogg is another. The UK
civil service has many such people.
They know too little about making things. As generalists they're one
step ahead of their next disaster and will make sure they are elsewhere
when it occurs. Maybe this is from the days of Empire. Who knows.
Meanwhile a technocracy in other countries is generating wealth and
forging the future.
The UK still does science and pioneering technology. I think what it
lacks is the middle layer of skilled technicians.
Keema's Nan
2019-07-26 19:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shahryar
On 23:51 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On 20:01 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100 Pamela
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the
Treaty of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of
new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been
an eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part
kept under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be
propogated by the morons who couldn't question anything or even
function mentally beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a
threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris
wants to put a border across.
Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by
ferry. He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the
same.
My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values. So one is a European,
Irish and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate of pay, but the odd
thing is that there are no Polish people on site. Dublin was brimming
with them when I did my last project there, but all the Engineers and
contractors are actually Irish.
One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside
the box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very
refreshing. One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.
AB
Interesting perspective.
A natural one. The "Engineers" that are the products of the UK
educational system are dull clones. The natural result of bums on seat
degrees that are the conservatives answer to youth unemployment.
I spent a year working with UK Engineers. I used to communicate via a
Spanish colleague. He had the patience to translate my communications
to idiotspeak and the temperement to persist with attempts to
communicate the patently obvious without killing the morons.
I do believe the Engineers that went to Uni when there was state support
and people made a more dedicated career choice were far better than
those thrown up from these mix & match courses that seem more geared to
ramp up student debt than do anything useful.
AB
One problem is the UK doesn't value genuine engineers or high level
practical skills enough. One valued background in the UK is the unkempt
Oxbridge amateur generalist.
I think you mean *Oxford* amateur generalist. Actually, more Oxford advance
virtual signalling, which is what it appears to boil down to. People who
understand etiquette, who to know, the approved things to say. Oxford
produces people who know how to manipulate people.
Cambridge produces people from the sciences. People who know how to think.
People who know how to do stuff.
And yet it would seem they can’t even read a thermometer properly.

38.1 C..... Oh wait, that doesn’t break any records, let’s stick it in
the oven for a few seconds and get it up to 38.7 C which will be the highest
ever recorded and have the ignorant media wetting themselves with delight.

Now they can re-show hours of grannies scoffing ice creams, drunk teenagers
jumping in fountains, kids on the beach and (just for the pervs) female
office workers in short skirts sitting in the park during their lunch hour.
Post by Shahryar
Boris is one. Rees-Mogg is another. The UK
civil service has many such people.
They know too little about making things. As generalists they're one step
ahead of their next disaster and will make sure they are elsewhere when it
occurs. Maybe this is from the days of Empire. Who knows.
Meanwhile a technocracy in other countries is generating wealth and
forging the future.
The UK still does science and pioneering technology. I think what it lacks is
the middle layer of skilled technicians.
Brian Gaff
2019-07-26 08:09:50 UTC
Permalink
But the devils advocate side would say that is why it has been made so
difficult to leave in the hope of people thinking that way.
I think their aspects at play in the UK experience which are not so in other
countries. We have ocean between us except in Ireland, most other countries
just have land borders.
I'm not suggesting leaving is right or wrong here, just that there are
forces at play which could end up in another European war if too many people
want to take their ball back so to speak.
Brian
--
----- --
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Post by Pamela
For three years, Europeans have watched their British neighbors limp
through an unending political crisis that has already claimed two prime
ministers, bitterly divided the public, and left the country on the
brink of an economically disastrous "no-deal" exit.
Watching that horror show has inspired a sense of appreciation for the
oft-maligned EU.
Across the continent, public support for the EU has surged, while the
populist euroskeptic parties that once called for their own national
exit from the bloc have quietly changed their tune.
"This idea that a country could easily do better outside the EU has
been discredited by Brexit"
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/pajnzy/the-brexit-dumpster-fire-has-kil
led-every-major-eu-secessionist-movement
Brexit has been such a debacle that it has effectively killed the
rising EU secessionist movements that, just a few years ago, appeared
poised to take hold across Western Europe.
Its impact can be seen from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean, where
virtually every influential populist, euroskeptic party that had
previously called for their own version of Brexit has changed course.
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
Thank you for your sacrifice, UK!
[comment on the Vice News story]
Rod Speed
2019-07-26 09:07:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Gaff
But the devils advocate side would say that is why it has been made so
difficult to leave in the hope of people thinking that way.
I think their aspects at play in the UK experience which are not so in
other countries. We have ocean between us except in Ireland, most other
countries just have land borders.
I'm not suggesting leaving is right or wrong here, just that there are
forces at play which could end up in another European war if too many
people want to take their ball back so to speak.
That’s not gong to happen and isnt why WW1 or WW2 happened.
Or even why Bosnia happened either.
Post by Brian Gaff
Post by Pamela
For three years, Europeans have watched their British neighbors limp
through an unending political crisis that has already claimed two prime
ministers, bitterly divided the public, and left the country on the
brink of an economically disastrous "no-deal" exit.
Watching that horror show has inspired a sense of appreciation for the
oft-maligned EU.
Across the continent, public support for the EU has surged, while the
populist euroskeptic parties that once called for their own national
exit from the bloc have quietly changed their tune.
"This idea that a country could easily do better outside the EU has
been discredited by Brexit"
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/pajnzy/the-brexit-dumpster-fire-has-kil
led-every-major-eu-secessionist-movement
Brexit has been such a debacle that it has effectively killed the
rising EU secessionist movements that, just a few years ago, appeared
poised to take hold across Western Europe.
Its impact can be seen from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean, where
virtually every influential populist, euroskeptic party that had
previously called for their own version of Brexit has changed course.
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
Thank you for your sacrifice, UK!
[comment on the Vice News story]
Peeler
2019-07-26 10:17:14 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 26 Jul 2019 19:07:04 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Post by Rod Speed
Post by Brian Gaff
I think their aspects at play in the UK experience which are not so in
other countries. We have ocean between us except in Ireland, most other
countries just have land borders.
I'm not suggesting leaving is right or wrong here, just that there are
forces at play which could end up in another European war if too many
people want to take their ball back so to speak.
That’s not gong to happen and isnt why WW1 or WW2 happened.
Or even why Bosnia happened either.
Australian asshole knows is ALL better, AGAIN ...and AGAIN ...and AGAIN
...and AGAIN! <tsk>
--
Sqwertz to Rot Speed:
"This is just a hunch, but I'm betting you're kinda an argumentative
asshole.
MID: <ev1p6ml7ywd5$***@sqwertz.com>
Roger
2019-07-27 16:19:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pamela
"This idea that a country could easily do better outside the EU has
been discredited by Brexit"
so when did brexit happen?

As for people who want to make such a big issue out of the relevance of the customs union, I can only point them at this graph:

https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:CHE:SWE:NOR&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_kd_zg&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:CHE:GBR:ITA:DEU:CAN:ARG&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false

What are we noting here:

1) All the developed countries have pretty much the same growth rate with same instabilities despite the fact that:

a) Germany an Italy have been in the EU and it's predecessors from the
outset.
b) Switzerland is in the centre of Europe but has never been in the customs union.
c) Canada is not in Europe or the customs union.
d) The UK trend did not vary relative to the trend in 1974 when it joined.

2) Argentina which has gone through some notoriously unstable periods has, none the less, maintained a similar average.

The level of global trade in the postwar period has increased to the point that economies small and large are inevitably intertwined.

I challenge anyone to demonstrate with hard facts how applying the same legislation to ever larger areas (what the CU aims to achieve) increases the rate of GDP growth, or how not being a part of that increasing mass leads to a decline in GDP growth.
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