Discussion:
[OT] "Thank you for your sacrifice, UK!"
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Pamela
2019-07-25 13:02:42 UTC
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Vice News writes:

For three years, Europeans have watched their British neighbors limp
through an unending political crisis that has already claimed two prime
ministers, bitterly divided the public, and left the country on the
brink of an economically disastrous "no-deal" exit.

Watching that horror show has inspired a sense of appreciation for the
oft-maligned EU.

Across the continent, public support for the EU has surged, while the
populist euroskeptic parties that once called for their own national
exit from the bloc have quietly changed their tune.

"This idea that a country could easily do better outside the EU has
been discredited by Brexit"

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/pajnzy/the-brexit-dumpster-fire-has-kil
led-every-major-eu-secessionist-movement

And:

Brexit has been such a debacle that it has effectively killed the
rising EU secessionist movements that, just a few years ago, appeared
poised to take hold across Western Europe.

Its impact can be seen from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean, where
virtually every influential populist, euroskeptic party that had
previously called for their own version of Brexit has changed course.

The message now is: remain, and reform from within.

Thank you for your sacrifice, UK!

[comment on the Vice News story]
Jim K..
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
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Post by Pamela
For three years, Europeans have watched their British neighbors limp
through an unending political crisis that has already claimed two prime
ministers, bitterly divided the public, and left the country on the
brink of an economically disastrous "no-deal" exit.
Watching that horror show has inspired a sense of appreciation for the
oft-maligned EU.
Across the continent, public support for the EU has surged, while the
populist euroskeptic parties that once called for their own national
exit from the bloc have quietly changed their tune.
"This idea that a country could easily do better outside the EU has
been discredited by Brexit"
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/pajnzy/the-brexit-dumpster-fire-has-kil
led-every-major-eu-secessionist-movement
Brexit has been such a debacle that it has effectively killed the
rising EU secessionist movements that, just a few years ago, appeared
poised to take hold across Western Europe.
Its impact can be seen from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean, where
virtually every influential populist, euroskeptic party that had
previously called for their own version of Brexit has changed course.
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
Good luck with that sPamela!
--
Jim K


----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
Joe
2019-07-25 14:06:28 UTC
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On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?

The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty of
Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
--
Joe
The Natural Philosopher
2019-07-25 14:13:47 UTC
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Post by Joe
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty of
Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
Pamela
2019-07-25 14:25:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty of
Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Joe
2019-07-25 14:37:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:25:13 +0100
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the
Treaty of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.

Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
--
Joe
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-25 15:28:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
--
*To be intoxicated is to feel sophisticated, but not be able to say it.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Fredxx
2019-07-25 19:18:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
Remind us, what did NSDAP stand for?


Aren't these Corbyn's ideals?

Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
The nationalization of industries
demanding a division of profits of all industries
Pamela
2019-07-25 19:29:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
Remind us, what did NSDAP stand for?
Aren't these Corbyn's ideals?
Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
The nationalization of industries
demanding a division of profits of all industries
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants. Can you believe it.
Ever been had?
Fredxx
2019-07-26 00:10:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Fredxx
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
Remind us, what did NSDAP stand for?
Aren't these Corbyn's ideals?
Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
The nationalization of industries
demanding a division of profits of all industries
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants. Can you believe it.
Ever been had?
I don't recall anyone sending them back? You must be imagining things
again.
Pamela
2019-07-26 07:17:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Pamela
Post by Fredxx
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition
of new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
Been repealed.
Everyone to the right of Lenin is a Nazi now.
But our dear friend Turnip considers Hitler one of the few true
Socialists. And says his nurse agrees with him.
Remind us, what did NSDAP stand for?
Aren't these Corbyn's ideals?
Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of
rent-slavery. The nationalization of industries
demanding a division of profits of all industries
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants. Can you
believe it. Ever been had?
I don't recall anyone sending them back? You must be imagining things
again.
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in radio
progranmes thought would magically happen.

There was even a violent incident shortly after the referendum about this
which was reported in the news.
Norman Wells
2019-07-26 07:53:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Fredxx
Post by Pamela
Boris says he doesn't want to get rid of any immigrants. Can you
believe it. Ever been had?
I don't recall anyone sending them back? You must be imagining things
again.
And yet that is precisely what logic-starved Leavers phoning in radio
progranmes thought would magically happen.
So, you get your knowledge and your opinions from phone-ins.

Says it all really.

Don't you realise that those who get to air are selected for their
extremist, logic-starved views in order to 'stimulate discussion', ie
provide the presenter with easy targets?

You should try it. You'd get on every time. There wouldn't be anyone
sensible listening but, hey, you'd think you've had your moment in the
spotlight.

I suggest, for example, that you put to the phone-in receptionist the
view you've expressed here in the past that trade with Europe will cease
immediately we leave the EU without a deal. That's a good one!
Post by Pamela
There was even a violent incident shortly after the referendum about this
which was reported in the news.
Was there indeed.

Vidcapper
2019-07-26 06:04:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
Bzzzt! Godwin's law.
When the shoe fits...
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham
Dave Plowman (News)
2019-07-25 15:26:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
Yet only the UK out of 27 considers itself reduced to 'vassalage', as you
put it.

And if you actually understood what that word meant, in absolutely no way
could it be applied to true socialism. Or the watered down type favoured
by so many civilised societies.

But carry on with your ranting. I like a wane smile most days.
--
*Speak softly and carry a cellular phone *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
2019-07-25 17:39:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty of
Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been an
eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part kept
under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be propogated by
the morons who couldn't question anything or even function mentally
beyond a base tribal instinct.

Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.

If this is a nasty EU plot to overthrow civilisation, then bring it
on!!



At least you have equipped yourselves with the right leadership now.

I really do think you have the correct "tools" in place to provide a
fitting destiny for what remains of the UK.

One is going to have some amusing times shortly, I can feel it in me
water!!

AB
Pamela
2019-07-25 19:01:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty
of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been an
eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part kept
under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be propogated by
the morons who couldn't question anything or even function mentally
beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work, where
private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune for water,
and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
If this is a nasty EU plot to overthrow civilisation, then bring it on!!
At least you have equipped yourselves with the right leadership now.
I really do think you have the correct "tools" in place to provide a
fitting destiny for what remains of the UK.
One is going to have some amusing times shortly, I can feel it in me
water!!
AB
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
2019-07-25 19:01:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty
of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem, not
part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been an
eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part kept
under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be propogated by
the morons who couldn't question anything or even function mentally
beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work, where
private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune for water,
and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris
wants to put a border across.

Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by
ferry. He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the
same.

My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values.
So one is a European, Irish and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate
of pay, but the odd thing is that there are no Polish people on site.
Dublin was brimming with them when I did my last project there, but
all the Engineers and contractors are actually Irish.

One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside
the box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very
refreshing. One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.

AB
Pamela
2019-07-25 22:28:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 20:01 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty
of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem,
not part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been an
eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part kept
under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be propogated by
the morons who couldn't question anything or even function mentally
beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris wants
to put a border across.
Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by ferry.
He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the same.
My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values. So one is a European, Irish
and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate of pay, but the odd thing is
that there are no Polish people on site. Dublin was brimming with them
when I did my last project there, but all the Engineers and contractors
are actually Irish.
One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside the
box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very refreshing.
One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.
AB
Interesting perspective.
Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
2019-07-25 22:51:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
On 20:01 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Joe
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the Treaty
of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself every
generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of new
states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the problem,
not part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been an
eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part kept
under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be propogated by
the morons who couldn't question anything or even function mentally
beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris wants
to put a border across.
Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by ferry.
He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the same.
My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values. So one is a European, Irish
and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate of pay, but the odd thing is
that there are no Polish people on site. Dublin was brimming with them
when I did my last project there, but all the Engineers and contractors
are actually Irish.
One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside the
box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very refreshing.
One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.
AB
Interesting perspective.
A natural one. The "Engineers" that are the products of the UK
educational system are dull clones. The natural result of bums on seat
degrees that are the conservatives answer to youth unemployment.

I spent a year working with UK Engineers. I used to communicate via a
Spanish colleague. He had the patience to translate my communications
to idiotspeak and the temperement to persist with attempts to
communicate the patently obvious without killing the morons.

I do believe the Engineers that went to Uni when there was state
support and people made a more dedicated career choice were far better
than those thrown up from these mix & match courses that seem more
geared to ramp up student debt than do anything useful.

AB
Pamela
2019-07-26 07:13:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 23:51 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 20:01 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Pamela
On 18:39 25 Jul 2019, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
Post by Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp Esq
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:13:47 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
On Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:02:42 +0100 Pamela
Post by Pamela
The message now is: remain, and reform from within.
What, 'reform' as in 'ever closer union'? 'Reform' as in von der
Leyen's policies?
The EU is on the same trajectory now as it has been since the
Treaty of Rome. So much for 'status quo'.
Its like socialism which needs fresh victims to justify itself
every generation. The EU lives, like Nazi Germany, by acquisition of
new states, which once reduced to vassalage, become part of the
problem, not part of the solution.
I don't see that bit at all. Britain these last few years has been
an eye opener. The racism and utter ignorance were for the most part
kept under wraps. Fairly useful really, generating lies to be
propogated by the morons who couldn't question anything or even
function mentally beyond a base tribal instinct.
Anyway good riddance! I'm in an EU country where the trains work,
where private industry isn't screwing householders out of a fortune
for water, and where fellow citizens are seen as assets, not a threat.
If you don't mind saying, which country is that?
Not at all, the land of saints and scholars. The very place Boris
wants to put a border across.
Once after I applied for my Irish passport, a colleague asked me if I
felt proud to be English. I said no and pointed out that England was a
chunk of land that looked much like any other when approaching by
ferry. He then asked if I was proud to be Irish, and my answer was the
same.
My answer would be different now, I see Britain as a sick joke and
embarrassment. Mathematically I suppose, I am proud to be Irish. That
assumes that pride can have negative values. So one is a European,
Irish and very happy indeed. Good job, good rate of pay, but the odd
thing is that there are no Polish people on site. Dublin was brimming
with them when I did my last project there, but all the Engineers and
contractors are actually Irish.
One feels a little underwhelmed. I found the enthusiasm and outside
the box thinking a lot of my Polish colleagues adopted was very
refreshing. One is moving further south soon, so I live in hope.
AB
Interesting perspective.
A natural one. The "Engineers" that are the products of the UK
educational system are dull clones. The natural result of bums on seat
degrees that are the conservatives answer to youth unemployment.
I spent a year working with UK Engineers. I used to communicate via a
Spanish colleague. He had the patience to translate my communications
to idiotspeak and the temperement to persist with attempts to
communicate the patently obvious without killing the morons.
I do believe the Engineers that went to Uni when there was state support
and people made a more dedicated career choice were far better than
those thrown up from these mix & match courses that seem more geared to
ramp up student debt than do anything useful.
AB
One problem is the UK doesn't value genuine engineers or high level
practical skills enough. One valued background in the UK is the unkempt
Oxbridge amateur generalist. Boris is one. Rees-Mogg is another. The UK
civil service has many such people.

They know too little about making things. As generalists they're one step
ahead of their next disaster and will make sure they are elsewhere when it
occurs. Maybe this is from the days of Empire. Who knows.

Meanwhile a technocracy in other countries is generating wealth and
forging the future.
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